Arcades057 Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 You refute the idea that peace is a lie. As evidence to the contrary of Mr. Moldavi's statements you list your own ideals and morals--you will not attack, but you will defend; the Legion is a shining light on a hill, grown brighter and more vibrant through the hell of war. Peace is stagnation; peace is boredom; peace is inactivity; peace sees the warrior grow fat, listless, quick to anger; peace sees friends turn upon one another and sees alliance mates hunt for reasons to call each other a traitor; peace, through the listlessness and boredom, through the stagnation and inactivity, leads to war--always. Those alliances and men who value peace greatest find war coming to their shores with the same ease as the most war-hungry among us. It is known when someone desires peace, and when their desire for such overwhelms all of their other senses. Peace is a lie. Peace is the time when great alliances and nations rebuild, readying themselves for the following conflict. Peace is the time when intelligence is gathered, data are entered, new enemies are found. War is the only truth, a cosmic truth that is found within the hearts of us all, a yearning for that darker impulse and the glory that it brings. Nations are built or lost on the backs of wars; yet peace can be just as dangerous in the long term. We fight that we may become stronger; in peace we only await the coming war. We fight and take pride in the destruction of our enemies; while priding ourselves on the growth we experience throughout. We fight that we may soon have peace; that we might rebuild to conquer once more. Gentlemen, I forward the motion that war is the only truth found here, found everywhere. We are all looking toward the next war, our minds filled with giddy anticipation. Through peace we have become fat, stagnant and shackled; war shall set us free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymenbreach Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Peace is stagnation; peace is boredom; peace is inactivity; peace sees the warrior grow fat, listless, quick to anger; peace sees friends turn upon one another and sees alliance mates hunt for reasons to call each other a traitor; peace, through the listlessness and boredom, through the stagnation and inactivity, leads to war--always. Greta Garbo said 'I am never bored because I am never boring.' War is stagnation of a different stripe. War sees the crow grow fat. War sees friends kill each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcades057 Posted April 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Greta Garbo said 'I am never bored because I am never boring.'War is stagnation of a different stripe. War sees the crow grow fat. War sees friends kill each other. Yet peace sees the same; beleive me, for I have killed friends during peace. Far less is required for the warrior to turn to the sword rather than the tongue to solve an argument in peace than in war. War grows the bonds between allies; peace shatters those bonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasin Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) How about peace and war are not lies or truths, but are both necessities of Planet Bob. Peace cannot exist without war, and war cannot exist without peace. In fact we don't need either to exist, but in order for the general population of Planet Bob to be appeased a cycle of war and peace has been manufactured. Edited April 7, 2009 by Hasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Peace is the absence of war. The existence of a state has nothing to do with its validity or nobility. If you must define peace as the after effect or the secondary thought to the natural state then it is a falsehood, therefore a lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ty345 Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Peace is a lie. Believing in peace is to believe that you are truly safe from harm, which is never true. The only "real" peace there is can be found in Arcade's avatar: Peace Through Superior Firepower. Peace is simply having the bigger club than the other guy. And quite frankly, peace is boring, and against our nature to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymenbreach Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Peace is the absence of war. The existence of a state has nothing to do with its validity or nobility. If you must define peace as the after effect or the secondary thought to the natural state then it is a falsehood, therefore a lie. In Peace we all grow and benefit from the growth of others and the more others grow, more benefit. In war, only ta minority grow and only a minority benefit. I believe I have more chance of growth in a peaceful world and that is why I support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Orpheus Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Peace and war are only facets of survival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heggo Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 War is stagnation of a different stripe. War sees the crow grow fat. War sees friends kill each other. When you say "war" what you really mean is "curbstomp". I think you are referring to situations in which members of an alliance bloc eat their own young. In *real* wars (something we haven't seen for a while) there is a potential for the entire existing war to be upset. Oh, and friends killing each other? Who says that wars must be conducted without honor, that friends must fight friends? Surely, blocs guarantee that allies must betray each other. But that is not how it must be. Peace and war are only facets of survival. Why are you even here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Orpheus Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Why are you even here? For the same reason as you. I have an opinion on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Dakota Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 In Peace we all grow and benefit from the growth of others and the more others grow, more benefit. In war, only ta minority grow and only a minority benefit. I believe I have more chance of growth in a peaceful world and that is why I support it. At the end of the day, you only grow to yet again be bound in another conflict. It's a cycle. It will always be a cycle, as set by history. There can be peace for long periods of time, but rest assured any growth you may have made doing that time will only be used for war yet again. Peace is a lie because there will never fully be peace infinitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Orpheus Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 At the end of the day, you only grow to yet again be bound in another conflict. It's a cycle. It will always be a cycle, as set by history. There can be peace for long periods of time, but rest assured any growth you may have made doing that time will only be used for war yet again. Peace is a lie because there will never fully be peace infinitely. War will come when the war benefits the survival of the whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycurgus Rex Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 War will come when the war benefits the survival of the whole. or the few, war comes when these with power wish it to occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Orpheus Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 or the few, war comes when these with power wish it to occur. Who are in turn manipulated by their environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycurgus Rex Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 (edited) Who are in turn manipulated by their environment. The great ones manipulate their own environments to their liking. Edited April 8, 2009 by Lycurgus Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Dakota Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 War will come when the war benefits the survival of the whole. War will come, when people want it. You know what happens when CN gets bored? War. The same applies to old grievances that were never settled. People will always find a way to start a war and it can over something as little as a comment an alliance made at another alliance. Simple easy mistakes that could have been fixed, have resulted in war time and time again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heggo Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Byron, do you actually have anything to say that is of practical importance? I can get my daily dose of platitudes elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahman Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 hmm, good job, Mr. rhetorician. Now, how about some evidence, other than your own personal opinion? Moldavi used the treaty web as a evidence, and while you claim that "peace sees friends turn upon one another and sees alliance mates hunt for reasons to call each other a traitor" you don't back it up. Sure we all know of FAN and UJP, but truly, they need to be included with a strong argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Orpheus Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Byron, do you actually have anything to say that is of practical importance? I can get my daily dose of platitudes elsewhere. I thought it was of practical importance to end a useless debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycurgus Rex Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I thought it was of practical importance to end a useless debate. Please inform us with the aid of your great intellectual capacities as to how this debate is useless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Orpheus Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Please inform us with the aid of your great intellectual capacities as to how this debate is useless? Because your side is right, peace is only the potentiality of the actuality of war. Ironic that all of the hate against me has been from the side I am supporting with my argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigbigadorlou Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Thank you sir, for saying in much better language what I was trying to iterate in my thread. Please tell your leaders to call off their attacks. hmm, good job, Mr. rhetorician.Now, how about some evidence, other than your own personal opinion? Moldavi used the treaty web as a evidence, and while you claim that "peace sees friends turn upon one another and sees alliance mates hunt for reasons to call each other a traitor" you don't back it up. Sure we all know of FAN and UJP, but truly, they need to be included with a strong argument. He seems to be more poetic than philosophic. And in any case, I do not believe that that was the purpose of the ideas. Whether it sees alliance mates call each other traitor or not, the fact is, war is good. The propagation of war is therefore also good. So lets get propagating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyber Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Wars are often won during times of peace more often then they are won during times of war. Diplomacy, alliance building, and generating enough intrest in your alliance mates to grow at a faster pace then the other side can often mean that you find youself in a much more superior position come a war, making any war you enter irrelevant as it is already won without the need to fire a shot. War in and of itself has often been just a proclamation that the winner has won the race during peace. This is not always true granted, and these days less people want to fight a war that has not already been won via diplomacy and simply being bigger then the other guy and his allies. Lets take the GGA in its current state. I have nothing against GGA as their failure to show great growth or military preparidness does not endeer hatred in me, or any other negative emotion. Should war come their value is very low. That value gained during times of peace through strong diplomactic connections, as well as alliance growth and preparedness well mean everything in times of war. War is simply where your gains through peace are used, and tested. War is simply another means to measure success. To say it is the only means is false, as success in many alliances is measured long before shots are fired, war is just the quickest and laziest means to measure it. Peace is as much a lie as war is, since to me the initial statement to peace is a lie is meaningless. Those complaining about wanting more war are often the ones that have failed to succeed in times of peace for whatever reason, and are hopeing the ones that have succeeded in such times to go at eachother in the hopes of giveing them a chance after the war to get back in the race. What suprises me is why these same people think if given the chance they will make it this time, and why they have given up here and now to move forward. TOP to me wins in peace and in war, and if you can't do both your playing the game wrong in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycurgus Rex Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 War in and of itself has often been just a proclamation that the winner has won the race during peace. So you admit that alliances prepare for war while they are at peace?, does that not prove peace is a lie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyber Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 So you admit that alliances prepare for war while they are at peace?, does that not prove peace is a lie? So if I prepare for a rainy day by carrying an umbrella, the fact that there is sun out is a lie? There is peace and there is war, just as there is sunny days and rainy days. There are moments in peace where war is closer then others due to tensions, but to say that there isn't any peace is trying to redefine the very word peace. Peace has it's competitions as well, those of diplomacy, where alliances loss and gain allies as they shift and move in different directions, those of grow, where individual nations out grow the nations of other alliances, and those of expansion, were recruitment and maintaining and energizing the new membership to become involved in the game. The individual nation gets to race to grow. Funny how I track my growth in other alliances and I find myself going up their nation strength ranking, but in TOP, IRON and Gremlins I can't seem to make any gains. This tells me that I am growing at a faster rate then the average rate of growth in other alliances, but in those 3 alliances I'm matching their rate of growth and nothing more. Sure goverment jobs are more intresting in times of peace, but this is true in times of war as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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