[Czar Aleksander]

Good people of planet bob, throughout my CN life, almost every week I see a thread on how Christians are stupid or they are killing society and keeping us in the dark ages etc. Yes, we all know there are some pretty bad ones, but there are also good ones, same with every other religion. It seems like people have this insane need to put down Christians whenever they need to affirm how much more enlightened they are than them. I see both sides saying that you need to be more tolerant of the opposition. And yet, I see very little tolerating going on. Everyone is always like "I don't think you should do that but it's your life so w/e." It certainly isn't very friendly. If you don't approve, don't say anything. Don't feel the need to show just how smart you are by showing how dumb others are. Lets be a little nicer in the future, ok? Not all religious people are out to get you.

EDIT: :S theres something wrong with the edit button, and also, clarification.

This post has been edited by Czar Aleksander: 04 September 2007 - 11:30 PM

[BamaBuc]

Agreed, but you're overreacting a bit. I don't think Christians are hated throughout CN or anything.

-Bama

[Moridin]

Czar Aleksander, on Sep 4 2007, 10:26 PM, said:

Everyone is always like "I don't think you should do that but it's your life so w/e." It certainly isn't very friendly. If you don't approve, don't say anything. Don't feel the need to show just how smart you are by showing how dumb others are. Lets be a little nicer in the future, ok? Not all religious people are out to get you.

Why should I not voice my opinion? I have every right to say something, I just have no right to actually force them to give up their beliefs. If someone "disapproved" of evolution, eating fast food, or using cars, should they just hold their silence, or can they speak out?

I may disapprove of their beliefs, but as long as I continue to respect their right to hold those beliefs, there is no reason to tell me to be quiet.

This post has been edited by Moridin: 04 September 2007 - 11:59 PM

[Gustave5436]

Just because I hate Christianity (like all other religions) doesn't mean I hate Christians. I will criticize religion if it deserves criticism; that people believe it so strongly is just more reason to criticize it.

[Saniel]

Given how some posters seem to have an almost pathological need to feel that Christians are somehow persecuted in the United States, I am not sure if you are being serious or not.

[Daver]

Saniel, on Sep 5 2007, 06:04 AM, said:

Given how some posters seem to have an almost pathological need to feel that Christians are somehow persecuted in the United States, I am not sure if you are being serious or not.

This despite the fact they run the place. That's my problem with the Christian Right, right there. :angry:

[Lord Sharpe]

Persecution complex FTL. Christians are not hated. Because we don't accept the bible as fact does not mean that Christianity is being warred on. Please keep the correct perspective.

[Smallfrog]

I think this is a complaint against the people who try to end an argument with the;

If your crazy enough to believe in religion it doesn't effect me.

Biggest non-argument ever, and gives the person saying it an opportunity to make everything the person has said sound rubbish, whilst leaving the argument pretending they have won. Though change the word religion to almost any subject and you have the most overused and stupid argument on these boards.

[Saniel]

Lord Sharpe, on Sep 5 2007, 09:32 AM, said:

Persecution complex FTL. Christians are not hated. Because we don't accept the bible as fact does not mean that Christianity is being warred on. Please keep the correct perspective.

I was thinking more along the lines of a shop employee not saying "Merry Christmas" somehow being on the same level as the Holocaust.

[Xiao Weng]

I'm going to celebrate Festivus this year simply out of spite.

[Irish]

I don't hate Christians, actually I have a few close practising Christian friends. However, they're what I'd call "Christians with brains", i.e. they don't rigidly follow every tenet of the Roman Catholic Church (expecially the silliest ones... contraception, anyone?)

[Lamuella]

Czar Aleksander, on Sep 5 2007, 01:26 AM, said:

Good people of planet bob, throughout my CN life, almost every week I see a thread on how Christians are stupid or they are killing society and keeping us in the dark ages etc. Yes, we all know there are some pretty bad ones, but there are also good ones, same with every other religion. It seems like people have this insane need to put down Christians whenever they need to affirm how much more enlightened they are than them. I see both sides saying that you need to be more tolerant of the opposition. And yet, I see very little tolerating going on. Everyone is always like "I don't think you should do that but it's your life so w/e." It certainly isn't very friendly. If you don't approve, don't say anything. Don't feel the need to show just how smart you are by showing how dumb others are. Lets be a little nicer in the future, ok? Not all religious people are out to get you.

EDIT: :S theres something wrong with the edit button, and also, clarification.

I'll say whatever the hell I want whenever the hell I want to, thanks very much.

I will tolerate someone's religious opinions only to the extent that I will tolerate their political opinions. Namelythat you have a right to hold whatever opinion you want and I have a right to disagree with you. If you don't want to talk about your political stance, don't bring it up. If you don't want to talk about your religious stance, don't bring it up.

This is the boiler room. This is where we debate everything. If you don't want something to be part of the debate, don't raise it, or at least don't get surprised when someone talks about your religious opinions as much as they would your secular ones.

[Smallfrog]

Fair enough Lamuella. But can I continue my appeal against the use of

"If your crazy enough to believe (insert topic here) it doesn't matter to me."

Stupidest and most pointless argument ever that can be translated as;

"I can't win this debate so I'm going to call you an idiot and walk off. "

[Lamuella]

I never spoke in favour of that argumentative technique. That is a cop-out and one I'd never use. What I'd do instead was show WHY the opinion was crazy (if it was) by looking at it empirically.

[Moridin]

Smallfrog, on Sep 5 2007, 09:13 AM, said:

Fair enough Lamuella. But can I continue my appeal against the use of

"If your crazy enough to believe (insert topic here) it doesn't matter to me."

Stupidest and most pointless argument ever that can be translated as;

"I can't win this debate so I'm going to call you an idiot and walk off. "

In the context of religion, I might say that because there is no amount of evidence that would make most Christians give up some of their beliefs. It is impossible to win the debate, because it is not a normal debate where both sides present evidence and the side with the better scientific support usually wins.

[Smallfrog]

Its still a stupid argument. It's the ultimate, I can't stand my ground argument. And I had arguments with a fairly smart guy at my school over religion. Using philosophical arguments he ended up somewhere he couldn't come back from, and accepted defeat. he didn't convert, but realized that he couldn't come anywhere near defeating religion through logic.

Now, that counts as a win, and you can accept that you have no counter. However, that argument I posted as a get out is too often used in a, I can't win this so I will call you an idiot and walk off. Which only works here as in RL you have to argue face to face, which takes more skill, and calling someone an idiot and walking off is accepting defeat. Which is why that argument will never be accpeted by me as anything but a cop out.

[Moridin]

Smallfrog, on Sep 5 2007, 01:24 PM, said:

Its still a stupid argument. It's the ultimate, I can't stand my ground argument. And I had arguments with a fairly smart guy at my school over religion. Using philosophical arguments he ended up somewhere he couldn't come back from, and accepted defeat. he didn't convert, but realized that he couldn't come anywhere near defeating religion through logic.

That is because religion is so irrational that something like logic is alien to very core beliefs of it. I give up arguments against religious folk not because I think I will win the argument, but because it is actually impossible to convince them you're right, however strong an argument you have. Hardcore religious people tend to have conviction so strong that not even the best logic and reason can trump it.

[Aeternos Astramora]

Czar Aleksander, on Sep 5 2007, 12:26 AM, said:

Good people of planet bob, throughout my CN life, almost every week I see a thread on how Christians are stupid or they are killing society and keeping us in the dark ages etc. Yes, we all know there are some pretty bad ones, but there are also good ones, same with every other religion. It seems like people have this insane need to put down Christians whenever they need to affirm how much more enlightened they are than them. I see both sides saying that you need to be more tolerant of the opposition. And yet, I see very little tolerating going on. Everyone is always like "I don't think you should do that but it's your life so w/e." It certainly isn't very friendly. If you don't approve, don't say anything. Don't feel the need to show just how smart you are by showing how dumb others are. Lets be a little nicer in the future, ok? Not all religious people are out to get you.

EDIT: :S theres something wrong with the edit button, and also, clarification.

I would say the nonreligious are in general more enlightened than the religious because we lack one core belief of irrationality.

Saniel, on Sep 5 2007, 05:04 AM, said:

Given how some posters seem to have an almost pathological need to feel that Christians are somehow persecuted in the United States, I am not sure if you are being serious or not.

Lord Sharpe, on Sep 5 2007, 09:32 AM, said:

Persecution complex FTL. Christians are not hated. Because we don't accept the bible as fact does not mean that Christianity is being warred on. Please keep the correct perspective.

These.

Irish, on Sep 5 2007, 10:46 AM, said:

I don't hate Christians, actually I have a few close practising Christian friends. However, they're what I'd call "Christians with brains", i.e. they don't rigidly follow every tenet of the Roman Catholic Church (expecially the silliest ones... contraception, anyone?)

I have smart Christian friends, except I hold back total credit for their intelligence if they hold such irrational beliefs.

[Warfunn]

I do not think Religon should suppress our freedom of speech. Just believe what you want to and dont complain if someone thinks different.

[Goofy Goober]

Well my friends are all Christian but their not die hard. My best friend just found at he was Catholic. Dont like diehard ones that says because Im Hindu im going to hell and that god hates me