[Ammon]

As you know, A certain Nation has been declared Persona Non Grata by his own alliance, and has been given a sentence of ZI. Due to prior abuses, I follow this nation, and have made it my sole purpose to assist in his demise in what ever fashion I am able.

As it turns out, there was an open war slot on this nation this morning, and I adjusted my capabilities to be able to fight the good fight. Permission was, of course, requested, but silence was the only answer.

Now I am threatened with ZI myself, from the Alliance prosecuting the nation as a rouge. Personal destruction is not an issue; it was assumed from the founding of my nation.

Honor. Honor is what? Alliance Honor, National Honor, Personal Honor. What does it mean in the context of Planet Bob?


So far as I can tell from my conversation with the (assumed) Military leader of this alliance, Alliance Honor means that if we are bigger than you, then Power dictates what Honor is, not actions or truths.


I don't ask for anything but an explanation.

[Dochartaigh]

wait what? you hit a rogue without an alliance's permission? are you part of this alliance or no? and also, if you are not, then why do you care about this other nation?

This post has been edited by Dochartaigh: 12 January 2009 - 09:19 PM

[Tritonia]

Ammon, on Jan 12 2009, 08:46 PM, said:

I don't ask for anything but an explanation.

It's the VE's issue, the VE's member, and the VE is dealing with it. Aside from that, I think the simplest explanation is, "Wait your turn."

[The Big Bad]

So you jumped into the middle of another alliances military operation and wonder why the are pissed at you? Is that a joke?

[Ammon]

So if I understand you correctly, then I have to get permission to attack another nation with an open slot? I did not realize that.

It would seem to me that a "military operation" would not leave open slots, and if they did, it could be viewed as Game On.

Regardless, you haven't addressed the question.

[Tritonia]

Ammon, on Jan 12 2009, 10:40 PM, said:

So if I understand you correctly, then I have to get permission to attack another nation with an open slot? I did not realize that.

If a nation is wearing an AA, especially one from an alliance as large as the Viridian Entente, you should get that alliances permission before attacking. If you don't, you should not be surprised if you get in trouble for attacking their AA and their targets.

Quote

It would seem to me that a "military operation" would not leave open slots, and if they did, it could be viewed as Game On.

You would be mistaken. ZI executions are often invitation only.

This post has been edited by Tritonia: 12 January 2009 - 09:44 PM

[The Big Bad]

Ammon, on Jan 12 2009, 10:40 PM, said:

So if I understand you correctly, then I have to get permission to attack another nation with an open slot? I did not realize that.

It would seem to me that a "military operation" would not leave open slots, and if they did, it could be viewed as Game On.

Regardless, you haven't addressed the question.

People leave slots open for staggers and such. As far as I know it is common knowledge you not jump on someone elses target. It is a matter military planning for the alliance running the op and if nothing else its just common courtesy for anyone else who wants jump in to ask first.

[Ammon]

Good enough. So the reality is that might makes right, and truth and honor have no place in the World of Bob.


acta est fabula plaudite

[Tritonia]

You are not the martyr here, so stop acting like a petulant child. If there is a bicycle on the sidewalk, you do not have permission to take it for a ride just because nobody else is on it. Likewise, you do not automatically have permission to attack a nation wearing an AA just because there's a free slot.

This is not a might makes right issue. As The Big Bad said, it's a common courtesy issue. You made a faux pa, deal with it. Don't come wailing about truth and honor as if it is some sort of trump card that makes you immune to the consequences of your actions. Many more people have suffered and died for truth and honor than for lies and cruelty.

[Ammon]

No martyr, no worries. I would not even post except that I see those terms thrown around like Mardi Gras beads on this board, and now I see that that is all they are.

Let's Roll, Mutha F'ers.

[Dochartaigh]

Ammon, on Jan 12 2009, 10:49 PM, said:

No martyr, no worries. I would not even post except that I see those terms thrown around like Mardi Gras beads on this board, and now I see that that is all they are.

Let's Roll, Mutha F'ers.

I would say it is you who are throwing those terms around and not anyone else. Truth is, you screwed up. you won't even really admit it, otherwise you would not be here posting as you have been. Honor, you took a slot that was not yours to take. in the OP, you stated you requested permission, but did not wait for an answer. Instead you took a slot, and instead of discussing this with VE, you came to the forums.

While, i did not think you should be ZIed before for making your mistake; your continued failure to man up to it, makes me feel differently. I would suggest instead of stating no one knows what truth and honor means, or that VE is acting the way of "might makes right", you should be asking for forgiveness for your mistake and leaving this subject to private channels instead of public.

trust me, take my advice and you may well escape ZI.

[The Pansy]

Ammon, on Jan 13 2009, 04:49 AM, said:

No martyr, no worries. I would not even post except that I see those terms thrown around like Mardi Gras beads on this board, and now I see that that is all they are.

Let's Roll, Mutha F'ers.

As your rolling I advise you dont accept that pending aid in your slot, or you will drag the alliance sending it to you into strife as well.

have fun

[Peggy_Sue]

You have made a mistake I may have made were I in your place. The OP in the VE announcement thread states "The Viridian Entente hereby expells Ephriam Grey, ...".

My unsolicited advice -- Visit the VE in their public IRC channel and ask to speak with a member of government. Apologize for stepping on their toes and ask for their suggestion about how to solve the situation you are in.

[Elyat]

Ammon, on Jan 12 2009, 10:55 PM, said:

Good enough. So the reality is that might makes right, and truth and honor have no place in the World of Bob.


acta est fabula plaudite

That is precisely it. Welcome to the survivalist world of the New Pacific Order and its brutish toadies.

International and interalliance standards are the shackles of slavery, they say. All are free to do as they please -- except when it interferes with them doing as they please, whereupon they will sentence you to permanent destruction. All is slanted against justice and skewed in favour of large alliances. And so will it all remain until sufficient numbers express their dissent.

Good luck. Lots of people who have tiffs with Ephriam.

[Balder]

Doitzel, on Jan 13 2009, 01:41 PM, said:

That is precisely it. Welcome to the survivalist world of the New Pacific Order and its brutish toadies.

International and interalliance standards are the shackles of slavery, they say. All are free to do as they please -- except when it interferes with them doing as they please, whereupon they will sentence you to permanent destruction. All is slanted against justice and skewed in favour of large alliances. And so will it all remain until sufficient numbers express their dissent.

Good luck. Lots of people who have tiffs with Ephriam.

Uhh... I don't see how this is a case of might makes right at all. Sounds more like you just enjoy saying that you hate Pacifica at every turn.

[Bob Janova]

When a nation is serving a sentence from an alliance, it is polite to allow them to choose the nations that may attack it. You didn't mess up a stagger, so your declaration hasn't seriously damaged the operation – that is the main reason to 'reserve' war slots, because otherwise your target gets jumped by three nations and they can escape to peace mode after 7 days.

Alliances like to control their punishment because it is easier to maximise damage done to the target with a well coordinated, internal strike force.

In your case, your initial 'offence' was relatively minor, but your continued aggressive posting is likely to land you in a lot more trouble than you really should be. Viridia was somewhat misleading in the fact that it explicitly expelled Ephriam and yet still 'protects' him from aggression by others. This is a common practice but it is understandable not to know that, and take the war slot. Upon being informed of this by Viridian military command, you should simply have apologised for not knowing and assured them that you would assist them as much as possible now the mistake had been made.

Your action is a breach of protocol and an honourable alliance would not do it deliberately, and that is the case whether the alliance in question is large (like Viridia) or small. Now you know .

Also, you declared war on a nation wearing the Viridian Entente AA. Even if you are 99% sure the nation is not a real member, you should always get clearance from an alliance's government to attack a nation wearing its AA.

[Ammon]

Just to clarify a few things:

I PM'ed one of the attackers with my request at 6:00PM on Sunday, and declared war at 6:00 AM on Monday. That is 12 hours with a reset in the middle. Plenty of time for a nation at war to respond.

Secondly, when contacted, I visited the General on the VE IRC. The general did not want to discuss anything. He issued his edict and left the room.

[ender land]

Ammon, on Jan 12 2009, 09:55 PM, said:

Good enough. So the reality is that might makes right, and truth and honor have no place in the World of Bob.


acta est fabula plaudite

So says someone attacking someone for no reason other than that he can.

Can't say I have a whole lot of sympathy for you considering you engage in exactly what you appear to be opposed to.

[Dochartaigh]

Ammon, on Jan 13 2009, 11:03 AM, said:

Just to clarify a few things:

I PM'ed one of the attackers with my request at 6:00PM on Sunday, and declared war at 6:00 AM on Monday. That is 12 hours with a reset in the middle. Plenty of time for a nation at war to respond.

Secondly, when contacted, I visited the General on the VE IRC. The general did not want to discuss anything. He issued his edict and left the room.

lawlz. no it is not. Since the nation was already at war, they had most likely already quad attacked. This means they do not have to be on at update to attack anymore. they can hit whenever need be. i would have told you to wiat 24 hours because some people have something called a life and may not be able to make it on but once a day or so.

[A Soviet Attack]

The VE may be attacking a nation, but they do not own that nation, nor do they own that nation's war slots. Seems odd that an alliance so committed to abolishing Eternal ZI hands out regular ZI like it's candy.