[Lamuella]

Two questions in one here:

for those with a religious faith: what would it take for you to lose that faith? For example, if you believe in the Christian god, what would change your mind about that belief?

For those without a religious faith: what would it take for you to believe in a deity?

this is a hard question for me, personally, because I am a pragmatist. I am not sure if circumstances exist that would make me "believe in" a deity.

If I saw compelling, incontrovertible evidence of the existence of a higher power, that would persuade me of the existence of such a power but it would not make me "believe in" that power any more than I believe in the sun.

I already accept the possibility of a deity, I just think it highly unlikely and haven't seen any evidence that supports the idea of a deity more than the idea of there not being a deity.

so my answer to my own question is that I don't know. I can't think of something that would make me "believe".

[SoxNation]

bah i'm half and half, i'd like to belive that god is there and sometimes i do think he is and think Jesus was his homie on earth....

but not strongly enough to read the bible or go to church, i despise organized religion, there are how many sects of christianity, yet they all claim to be right?


Religion has been destroyed by man, i'd rather just think about it and come to my own understanding with God...


what would it take for me to fully believe and follow the teachings, proof, Jesus come talk to me homie...

[Lord GVChamp]

MTV would have to go to God's house on Cribz. And it BETTER have an indoor ocean

[Lord Sharpe]

The second coming of Christ. Complete with the apocalypse. Right out of Revelations.

[Gran the Adequate]

If Jesus descended from the heavens and turned water into wine right in front of me that might compell me to become a Christian.

[Jakevy Jacob XXVI]

I would require it to be the most likely reason for the Universe, but as you say, even then I may not believe, so much as accept that a god exists

I think it would require a personal experience of some kind, although what form that could take I don't know

[Esau of Isaac]

What would make me believe in a deity? The return of some loved ones to life. I think that would be enough to display to me that it has powers beyond that of a human and worthy of being labeled a God.

[rozalia]

Gods are fickel.

[Kenadian_2006]

Esau of Isaac, on Oct 9 2007, 04:00 PM, said:

What would make me believe in a deity? The return of some loved ones to life. I think that would be enough to display to me that it has powers beyond that of a human and worthy of being labeled a God.

That actually would be pretty convincing to me. I was gonna say something along the lines of "irrefutable evidence that there is a god", that would be pretty irrefutable. o_O

[Tolkien]

In order for me to believe in a deity of any shape or kind would require an undeniable miracle to occur right in front of my eyes, one unexplainable and contrary to Science. No such event.

Edit: I.O.W Unrefutable Proof.

This post has been edited by Tolkien: 09 October 2007 - 02:16 PM

[Jebbie]

In order for me to believe I would need God to come down from heaven, sit next to me and personally tell me what I wanted to know.

Short of that, or irrefutable scientific evidence that he exists (i dont know) then theres no chance.

This post has been edited by Jebbie: 09 October 2007 - 02:19 PM

[Smallfrog]

Two many people fail to understand what faith is. And I know why that is. You don't have it.

Trust me, nothing could make me lose my faith. And there is a simple reason for that. I have faith.

[Lamuella]

Smallfrog, on Oct 9 2007, 04:24 PM, said:

Two many people fail to understand what faith is. And I know why that is. You don't have it.

Trust me, nothing could make me lose my faith. And there is a simple reason for that. I have faith.

so are you saying that nobody ever loses their faith, or that the people who do lose their faith never really had it in the first place?

isn't that a bit of a "no true scotsman" argument?

[SoxNation]

Lamuella, on Oct 9 2007, 04:25 PM, said:

so are you saying that nobody ever loses their faith, or that the people who do lose their faith never really had it in the first place?

isn't that a bit of a "no true scotsman" argument?

yeah it's rather rediculous,


faith is trusting something is there without proof, basically just knowing.... so if something disproved it to you (since you can't prove it) wouldn't that cause you to lose faith?

[Aaron]

do the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" or "Orbiting Tea pot" count as deities?

[Smallfrog]

Lamuella, on Oct 9 2007, 09:25 PM, said:

so are you saying that nobody ever loses their faith, or that the people who do lose their faith never really had it in the first place?

isn't that a bit of a "no true scotsman" argument?

Very probably. Thats just my position. I will never lose my faith, as I believe in something I know to be true. There is no way to explain that knowledge in words, along with the emotion and feeling of belief, so I won't even try.

[Lamuella]

Aaron, on Oct 9 2007, 04:26 PM, said:

do the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" or "Orbiting Tea pot" count as deities?

if you believe in them and have faith in their existence, then yes.

If you are using them as humorous concepts of the unprovable, then no.

[Lamuella]

Smallfrog, on Oct 9 2007, 04:27 PM, said:

Very probably. Thats just my position. I will never lose my faith, as I believe in something I know to be true. There is no way to explain that knowledge in words, along with the emotion and feeling of belief, so I won't even try.

do you accept that something similar has probably been said or felt by several people who eventually lost their faith?

[Lord Sharpe]

Lamuella, on Oct 9 2007, 02:25 PM, said:

so are you saying that nobody ever loses their faith, or that the people who do lose their faith never really had it in the first place?

isn't that a bit of a "no true scotsman" argument?

My opinion is that no one actually has true faith anyways. Everyone has some sort of experience or event in their lives that validates their faith for them.

True faith would be believing even though you never really have had an "experience" like that. I have yet to see someone who can do that.

Besides, humans are inquisitive. I dare say that true faith is impossible in all but the rarest cases.

[Smallfrog]

Lamuella, on Oct 9 2007, 09:33 PM, said:

do you accept that something similar has probably been said or felt by several people who eventually lost their faith?

I had this debate with my R.S teacher. It took over an hour, and the arguments get kinda complicated and emotional (he lost his faith due to some unfortunate experiences). Anyway, the bottom line is that I trust in God, believe in God, understand my faith, and it will therefore never leave me. I can't explain how I know this, but I know it.