[Decomposition]

So it seems that four of the 10 best selling cars in Europe are made by American car companies (Opel is part of GM).

http://www.autospies...ing-Cars-25736/

Does this mean that the Big Three can actually make reliable fuel efficient cars that people want to buy but that they have simply decided to not try to sell them here? If I can buy a Mini-Cooper why do these four cars not seem to be available in the USA (or are they and I am missing something).

Can anyone shed any light on this???

This post has been edited by Decomposition: 13 November 2008 - 01:08 PM

[Rokula]

Its simple the Big Threes American management live and die by the rule "NIIMBY"

As such we here in the North America only get cool cars from the Asians and Euros and not from our boys...

[Kzin]

Part of the problem is profit margins ... Ford and G.M. were clearing 4-5 thousand profit per unit selling SUV's, but only 500-1000 per unit for small cars. So they said "well screw small cars, not enough money in them, let's push those SUV's we can gouge the customer on."

Whoops .... payback is a female dog.

[Rokula]

Kzin, on Nov 13 2008, 01:42 PM, said:

Part of the problem is profit margins ... Ford and G.M. were clearing 4-5 thousand profit per unit selling SUV's, but only 500-1000 per unit for small cars. So they said "well screw small cars, not enough money in them, let's push those SUV's we can gouge the customer on."

Whoops .... payback is a female dog.

Nah theres gotta be something else to it. GM though OPEL and Ford can make good cars in Europe and 75% of them is what Americans would consider small cars, but they seem to make a decent profit over there. But they cant seem to do anything here and I gotta think its all management.

[Kenadian_2006]

Rokula, on Nov 13 2008, 01:50 PM, said:

Nah theres gotta be something else to it. GM though OPEL and Ford can make good cars in Europe and 75% of them is what Americans would consider small cars, but they seem to make a decent profit over there. But they cant seem to do anything here and I gotta think its all management.

It's a cultural thing then. Canadians and Americans like big things. Seriously, not many cars made here would fit in those small alleyways in old European cities. You need those damn small FIAT cars.

[funkson22]

We Americans are men. We need the sound of our engines to confirm this.

[BaronUberstein]

I personally like the old Volkswagen Shwwiminwagon (sp?) from WWII. It's a boat, a car, and 100% awesome because it's a Kubelwagon that can swim.

[Kzin]

Rokula, on Nov 13 2008, 10:50 AM, said:

Nah theres gotta be something else to it. GM though OPEL and Ford can make good cars in Europe and 75% of them is what Americans would consider small cars, but they seem to make a decent profit over there. But they cant seem to do anything here and I gotta think its all management.

I think most of the EU has higher taxes/licensing on grossly inefficient vehicles that reduces that profit margin, and the market for SUV's there just wasn't big enough to manufacture them in Europe, so you add in transportation costs from the U.S. and it was never going to be the same market as selling Yukons and Suburbans in the U.S.

[El Pilchinator]

its cultural. america has been that wide-open-spaces, frontier kind of place. europe has been developed for much longer and is more compact. that's just my take.

[Liera]

I can tell you that at Ford, they have several fuel-efficient cars that are really profitable in Europe, but they focused on trucks and SUVs in America during the boom of the 90s because people would buy them and they made money. Now that gas-guzzlers are no longer profitable here, they are going to bring those small European models over here. Part of this was poor choices by upper management like Jacques Nassar and now the company is paying for their lack of foresight. Unfortunately those models popular in Europe won't be here until 2010.
(Dad works at Ford so I hear him complaining about this all the time)

[Lord GVChamp]

Not sure. Besides the culture thing (which I really feel uncomfortable saying, because we probably shouldn't say it unless we've discounted all other options), there might be dealer effects or problems in the fuel network.

I remember reading in Businessweek about a Ford getting 50 MPG, but not being marketable in the US because it required diesel fuel, for instance.


Looking at the list, though...I am pretty sure the Ford Focus isn't a diesel car...but I don't know very much about autos. My manliness doesn't extend to that particular domain

[Yubyubsan]

This article is very interesting.

To sum it up, Ford can't sell a 65 MPG car in the US because it knows that people are too ignorant to accept a diesel-based car.

[Kzin]

Yubyubsan, on Nov 13 2008, 01:00 PM, said:

This article is very interesting.

To sum it up, Ford can't sell a 65 MPG car in the US because it knows that people are too ignorant to accept a diesel-based car.

Funny how many TDI Volkswagens I see in town, though .... if GM blows it and puts the Volt out at above $35K price, I'll be taking a look at the Jetta TDI sportwagon.

[Rokula]

Yubyubsan, on Nov 13 2008, 04:00 PM, said:

This article is very interesting.

To sum it up, Ford can't sell a 65 MPG car in the US because it knows that people are too ignorant to accept a diesel-based car.

Americans are just a Ignorant breed.

[Arcturus Jefferson]

If you actually read the article, you'd notice than one objection Americans have is the significantly higher price of diesel, which makes non-diesel hybrids more attractive than clean-diesel cars.

[Boyle]

Arcturus Jefferson, on Nov 13 2008, 03:18 PM, said:

If you actually read the article, you'd notice than one objection Americans have is the significantly higher price of diesel, which makes non-diesel hybrids more attractive than clean-diesel cars.

It also mentioned that taxes are to blame for that significantly higher price.

[Isildur]

I'll second some of the statements above, in my experience its been both U.S. regulatory requirements and high diesel taxes that have kept diesel engines more isolated to the commercial industry. In a government/industry project I worked on, the data made it clear that the fastest way to improve the American fleet fuel mileage would be to reverse those positions by government so that advanced diesels would be competitive in the U.S. passenger car market.

I'll see if I can track some of that data down to support that, but that was definitely the case around 1998-2000.

[Xiao Weng]

Yubyubsan, on Nov 13 2008, 03:00 PM, said:

This article is very interesting.

To sum it up, Ford can't sell a 65 MPG car in the US because it knows that people are too ignorant to accept a diesel-based car.

Not so much the American public but the EPA. I'm curious as to what the low sulfur diesel that's been forced through by NY and CA does to those engines. A good high-pressure injection system can really boost the mileage. I was hearing rumors that VW/Audi had a new high-pressure injection system they tested at the LeMans 24-hour that was getting some sick mileage ratings.

As long as the EPA believes that diesel causes more pollution than gasoline from the refining process to combustion, we won't be getting the nice high-mileage vehicles.

[Straylight]

Kzin, on Nov 13 2008, 12:42 PM, said:

Part of the problem is profit margins ... Ford and G.M. were clearing 4-5 thousand profit per unit selling SUV's, but only 500-1000 per unit for small cars. So they said "well screw small cars, not enough money in them, let's push those SUV's we can gouge the customer on."

Whoops .... payback is a female dog.

Not to mention GM threw away so much money, much of it in the development, advertising, and lobbying for SUVs, that it could really only make significant profits by focusing on SUVs, the big money makers. They choose the risky route and they lost... worst.management.ever. I agree with Friedman, bail them out but sack the executives and shareholders.

This post has been edited by Straylight: 14 November 2008 - 11:00 AM

[Smallfrog]

Kenadian_2006, on Nov 13 2008, 07:17 PM, said:

It's a cultural thing then. Canadians and Americans like big things. Seriously, not many cars made here would fit in those small alleyways in old European cities. You need those damn small FIAT cars.

Its not the small city roads that are the problem. The actual issue is that if your not on a main road (ie, A road or B road) as soon as you leave the towns its single track, so narrow there have to be passing places every 1/4 of a mile.

Quote

To sum it up, Ford can't sell a 65 MPG car in the US because it knows that people are too ignorant to accept a diesel-based car.

I've never driven a petrol car, but I've been told their far less forgiving about dodgy clutch control than Diseals, as its harder to ignite Petrol.