[Decomposition]

A book just came out that looks at tithing among American Christians. A review of the book is here:
http://www.christian...8/006/5.11.html

One of the more interesting snippets appears to be:

Quote

A small minority of American Christians give most of the total donated. Twenty percent of all Christians give 86.4 percent of the total. The most generous five percent give well over half (59.6 percent) of all contributions. But higher-income American Christians give less as a percentage of household income than poorer American Christians. In the course of the 20th century, as our personal disposable income quadrupled, the percentage donated by American Christians actually declined.

Disclaimer: as an avowed agnostic I find that any form of tithing is pretty awesome and recognize the immense amount of good that religious institutions do around the world. This post is largely meant to find out if some of the more religiously inclined members of the Boiler Room can help explain these discrepancies.

[Foggers]

Because those people do not represent the entire population of Christianity.

Christianity focuses on how to get closer to God and achieve salvation. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

I learnt about this thing in a lesson, why don't churches sell all of their gold plated chalices and other things? Well one church did but the money it sent wasn't enough and more was needed, and more, and more and more. Most of those pieces of art are donations anyway and are a tribute to the glory of God and help many people with their worship.

[John Clark]

I went to this church once, one of those mega size ones, and they did a play. It seemed many of their partitioner's bragged on their donations as if others knowing it made them better. To make a long story short the next week they asked for yearly pledges and suggested (wanted) 25% of your household pretax income. Yeah never went there again. My personal view is if you can give with out causing undue hardship or endangering your future (and I saw people there do both) then go for it, but if you can't it doesn't make you a worse person. Some people seem to forget that their time is much more valued then their money.

[Foggers]

John Clark, on Nov 10 2008, 04:05 PM, said:

It seemed many of their partitioner's bragged on their donations as if others knowing it made them better.

Isn't there a parable agaisnt that?

[Delta1212]

Foggers, on Nov 10 2008, 11:26 AM, said:

Isn't there a parable agaisnt that?

There is quite a bit against that.

[Andy Rooney]

Not all Christians donate all 10% of their tithe to their church. My wife and I donate a lot to our church, but we also support a number of other charities and non-profits as well. And that's typical of many Christians and as your income goes up you have a tendency to diversify in your giving.

[Xiao Weng]

John Clark, on Nov 10 2008, 10:05 AM, said:

I went to this church once, one of those mega size ones, and they did a play. It seemed many of their partitioner's bragged on their donations as if others knowing it made them better. To make a long story short the next week they asked for yearly pledges and suggested (wanted) 25% of your household pretax income. Yeah never went there again. My personal view is if you can give with out causing undue hardship or endangering your future (and I saw people there do both) then go for it, but if you can't it doesn't make you a worse person. Some people seem to forget that their time is much more valued then their money.

That explains it. Megachurches aren't the best place to find religion.

[Schattenmann]

Xiao Weng, on Nov 10 2008, 11:42 AM, said:

That explains it. Megachurches aren't the best place to find religion.

Religion and faith are different things. I'd argue small churches are the best place to find "religion" and that you're going to find "religion" and "faith" in all kinds of different churches.

As for tithing, I don't see a big surprise. Poor people in America give more across the board than rich people, statistically. The parable of the Widow's Mite glorifies the small gifts of the poor over the large gifts of the rich. One is given in spirit, the other in show.

[Simon De Montfort]

Decomposition, on Nov 10 2008, 09:36 AM, said:

A book just came out that looks at tithing among American Christians. A review of the book is here:
http://www.christian...8/006/5.11.html

One of the more interesting snippets appears to be:



Disclaimer: as an avowed agnostic I find that any form of tithing is pretty awesome and recognize the immense amount of good that religious institutions do around the world. This post is largely meant to find out if some of the more religiously inclined members of the Boiler Room can help explain these discrepancies.

I think the economic principle of the 'free rider' applies here.

[cookavich]

I heard that statistic awhile ago. The great Italian prophet Malachi had something to say about this very subject.

"Will man rob God? Yet you are robbing me. But you say, 'How have we robbed you?' In your tithes and contributions. You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me, the whole nation of you."| (Malachi 3:8-9)

It's a sad reality that the lack of tithes is probably a good evidence that a large percentage of the people that sit in the pews of American churches any given Sunday aren't Christians. They think that by simply going to church God owes them something. God doesn't owe us anything, and they'll be in for a surprise when they're at St. Peter's gate and Christ tells them He never knew them.

/End Rant/

[Andy Rooney]

One more time; not all Christians tithe 10% to their church, they often donate to a mutlitude of charities and non-profits.

[Kenadian_2006]

Out of curiousity, how much was it that Muslims were required to give as alms? It was either 2% or 10%...maybe something else.

Nevermind, looked it up. The rate varies depending on what it is being based on.

This post has been edited by Kenadian_2006: 10 November 2008 - 02:10 PM

[Andy Rooney]

Kenadian_2006, on Nov 10 2008, 12:08 PM, said:

Out of curiousity, how much was it that Muslims were required to give as alms? It was either 2% or 10%...maybe something else.

Nevermind, looked it up. The rate varies depending on what it is being based on.

Muslims typically give in a variety of ways, as well. They support their masjid, they support their parents, they support the widowed wives of relatives and friends, and they support the children of relatives and friends, all of which are acceptable (halal) means of giving for Muslims.

[Kenadian_2006]

Andy Rooney, on Nov 10 2008, 03:19 PM, said:

Muslims typically give in a variety of ways, as well. They support their masjid, they support their parents, they support the widowed wives of relatives and friends, and they support the children of relatives and friends, all of which are acceptable (halal) means of giving for Muslims.

I see, thanks.

[Sunake]

Its like the parable of the rich man and the poor woman. The rich man only gave what he had to, the poor woman gave everything she had.

[John Clark]

Andy Rooney, on Nov 10 2008, 03:05 PM, said:

One more time; not all Christians tithe 10% to their church, they often donate to a mutlitude of charities and non-profits.

Now is that because they think they know how to use it better then their church or because their tax lawyers say its a good idea?

[cookavich]

John Clark, on Nov 10 2008, 05:35 PM, said:

Now is that because they think they know how to use it better then their church or because their tax lawyers say its a good idea?

You get tax breaks for tithing in America.

[Andy Rooney]

Sunake, on Nov 10 2008, 01:38 PM, said:

Its like the parable of the rich man and the poor woman. The rich man only gave what he had to, the poor woman gave everything she had.

I've seen that parable parodied in the past - it went something to the effect that the poor woman gave away her last penny because the welfare rules required it and then the rich man couldn't give away all his money because the government had claim to 95% of it already.

[BlackKnight]

Andy Rooney, on Nov 10 2008, 02:19 PM, said:

Muslims typically give in a variety of ways, as well. They support their masjid, they support their parents, they support the widowed wives of relatives and friends, and they support the children of relatives and friends, all of which are acceptable (halal) means of giving for Muslims.

Yes, indeed. We are required to give Alms to the poor yearly, 20% of what we make annually, and 20% of everything that we posses which we have not used in a year. Anything and everything we have not used in a year, including what you have in your bank account.

Example being Jewelry.

If you have not worn any one piece of Jewelry for an entire year, then you are required to find it's worth, and then 20% of what it is worth should be given as Alms.

Also, as Andy stated, Muslims are obligated to care for their Neighbors (From your next door neighbor, to the seventh neighbor in all four direction), the widowed, the orphans, relatives, parents, and the less fortunate, the poor.

To comment on your first point, Andy, regarding supporting their Masjid, or "Mosque," a basket is not handed around in a Mosque. In fact, the donation box is not set up even near the quarter where Muslims gather to prayer, to lecture, nor to socialize. It is usually set up at the back of a room in a Mosque far from the main quarter.

This post has been edited by BlackKnight: 10 November 2008 - 05:25 PM

[mastab]

Decomposition, on Nov 10 2008, 07:36 AM, said:

Disclaimer: as an avowed agnostic I find that any form of tithing is pretty awesome and recognize the immense amount of good that religious institutions do around the world. This post is largely meant to find out if some of the more religiously inclined members of the Boiler Room can help explain these discrepancies.

It's not about doing good, it's about supporting and spreading your religion. If you want to help people, give money to a charity that won't try to convert people or waste money.