[Kzin]

Quote

John McCain tore up the script for his Republican National Convention on Sunday, canceling most opening-day activities and positioning himself as above mere politics as Hurricane Gustav churned toward New Orleans.

"This is a time when we have to do away with our party politics and we have to act as Americans," he said as fellow Republicans converged on their convention city to nominate him for the White House.

On the eve of his convention, McCain took on the role of a concerned potential president determined to avoid the errors made by President Bush three years ago. "I have every expectation that we will not see the mistakes of Katrina repeated," he said.

Bush and Vice President Cheney scrapped plans to address the convention on Monday, and McCain's aides chartered a jet to fly delegates back to their hurricane-threatened states along the Gulf Coast. Campaign manager Rick Davis said the first-night program was being cut from seven hours to two and one half.

McCain said in an interview with NBC that it was possible he would make his acceptance speech not from the convention podium but via satellite from the Gulf Coast region.

http://seattletimes....ventionrdp.html

Geez, and I thought selecting Palin was gimicky ....

[a] How exactly does bringing the campaign media circus to the Gulf and forcing local law enforcement to ensure his security help out the locals?

[b] Isn't he the Senator for Arizona? When did that become part of the Gulf?

This post has been edited by Kzin: 31 August 2008 - 05:02 PM

[Herzl]

Kzin, on Aug 31 2008, 07:01 PM, said:

http://seattletimes....ventionrdp.html

Geez, and I thought selecting Palin was gimicky ....

[a] How exactly does bringing the campaign media circus to the Gulf and forcing local law enforcement to ensure his security help out the locals?

[b] Isn't he the Senator for Arizona? When did that become part of the Gulf?

Probably a good idea, and a good show on McCain's part. The attention shouldn't be on politics when there is a threat of a major disaster coming towards the US. Assuming the hurricane does limited damage, then the convention will go on. This seems like the most responsible and reasonable chocie they could have possibly made.

Also, where does McCain say he is from the Gulf?

[Dennis Von Bremen]

Herzl, on Aug 31 2008, 06:05 PM, said:

Probably a good idea, and a good show on McCain's part. The attention shouldn't be on politics when there is a threat of a major disaster coming towards the US. Assuming the hurricane does limited damage, then the convention will go on. This seems like the most responsible and reasonable chocie they could have possibly made.

This, I live in Houston, and I would be pissed if the hurricane came to us suddenly (instead of New Orleans) and I was struggling to survive while McCain and others go acting as if everything was fine. The focus right now should be on the hurricane. He can start the Convention on Wednesday or Thursday.

[Kzin]

Herzl, on Aug 31 2008, 04:05 PM, said:

The attention shouldn't be on politics when there is a threat of a major disaster coming towards the US.

But this isn't about *anything* but politics .... it's about image, about 'not looking like we're having fun or being politicians and being just like Bush with New Orleans getting hammered again' ....

Because, what part of the Governor of Alaska or Senator from Arizona's job has to do with fact-finding in Lousiana during a storm, *except* politics? Zilch.

[Lord GVChamp]

Lol politics
Because putting delegates back into the danger zone is a good idea

[Herzl]

Kzin, on Aug 31 2008, 07:09 PM, said:

But this isn't about *anything* but politics .... it's about image, about 'not looking like we're having fun or being politicians and being just like Bush with New Orleans getting hammered again' ....

Because, what part of the Governor of Alaska or Senator from Arizona's job has to do with fact-finding in Lousiana during a storm, *except* politics? Zilch.

Right, I suppose a far more reasonable option then in your opinion would be to draw people and resources away from the city so that they could hold their convention as if nothing were going on? The fact is that cancelling the convention allows the city to focus fully on the hurricane without having more to worry about. Also, no they don't directly have any authority in the region, but seeing things first hand and (as the potential leaders of the country), getting an idea of what is going on is can be nothing other than helpful.

[Kzin]

Herzl, on Aug 31 2008, 04:15 PM, said:

Right, I suppose a far more reasonable option then in your opinion would be to draw people and resources away from the city

Well .... isn't the government trying to get people to leave the city right now? Okay, any delegates that are EMT's or cops, great, send 'em home, I don't have an argument with that. Send all the private planes down there to fly out refugees, I've got no problem with that.

But come on, changing the convention schedule isn't about anything but image ... the funniest part is these guys getting up and saying "we can't play politics" while blatantly doing exactly that.

[Dennis Von Bremen]

Kzin, on Aug 31 2008, 06:17 PM, said:

Well .... isn't the government trying to get people to leave the city right now? Okay, any delegates that are EMT's or cops, great, send 'em home, I don't have an argument with that. Send all the private planes down there to fly out refugees, I've got no problem with that.

But come on, changing the convention schedule isn't about anything but image ... the funniest part is these guys getting up and saying "we can't play politics" while blatantly doing exactly that.

That's politics. What do you expect?

[Kzin]

Dennis Von Bremen, on Aug 31 2008, 04:19 PM, said:

That's politics. What do you expect?

Two more months of zany entertainment.

[Herzl]

Kzin, on Aug 31 2008, 07:17 PM, said:

But come on, changing the convention schedule isn't about anything but image ... the funniest part is these guys getting up and saying "we can't play politics" while blatantly doing exactly that.

How do you think they're going to run a convention in the middle of what possibly could be another Katrina? Do you think anybody at all even wants the convention to go on time given the possibility of that? Just because you seem to be against McCain (correct me if I'm wrong), doesn't mean that you can't recognise when he makes the right choice and steps out of the focus to let it be on the people. I find it extremely ironic that you are also complaining about them saying its about politics when it shouldn't be, and yet you make a thread to attack their politics thus giving them attention. Also, if you could still point out where he said he was from the Gulf area, I'd appreciate that.

[Goofy Goober]

why the hell is he forcing local authorities to guard him when they could do something important...like saving peoples lives?

[Kzin]

Herzl, on Aug 31 2008, 04:23 PM, said:

How do you think they're going to run a convention in the middle of what possibly could be another Katrina? Do you think anybody at all even wants the convention to go on time given the possibility of that?

The convention is in Minnesota ..... anybody who stays at the convention is *already* evacuated from the disaster zone. McCain is talking about freeing up people to go back into it right at the moment that authorities are trying to get them out.

Quote

Also, if you could still point out where he said he was from the Gulf area, I'd appreciate that.

I didn't say McCain said that, it's just that dealing with a disaster in Louisiana and Texas doesn't have much to do with the job of a Senator from Arizona .... when a budget item comes up to provide more relief for the area, then it will be part of McCain's actual job, and he'll vote on that in D.C., not New Orleans.

This post has been edited by Kzin: 31 August 2008 - 05:31 PM

[Herzl]

Goofy Goober, on Aug 31 2008, 07:24 PM, said:

why the hell is he forcing local authorities to guard him when they could do something important...like saving peoples lives?

McCain isn't even in New Orleans though, and infact I don't think I saw anything saying he was even in Louisiana, so I really don't see how he is taking local authorities away from saving lives.

Quote

The convention is in Minnesota ..... anybody who stays at the convention is *already* evacuated from the disaster zone. McCain is talking about freeing up people to go back into it right at the moment that authorities are trying to get them out.

I'm well aware of where the convention is, and that doesn't even remotely answer my questions. The city needs all resources focused on it right now, and that includes the attention of the national media, and anyone who can help with rescue work. Back to my other questions though, do you think that anybody would be able to run a convention or want to attend a convention in another post-Katrina situation?

[Kzin]

Herzl, on Aug 31 2008, 04:35 PM, said:

I'm well aware of where the convention is, and that doesn't even remotely answer my questions. The city needs all resources focused on it right now, and that includes the attention of the national media, and anyone who can help with rescue work. Back to my other questions though, do you think that anybody would be able to run a convention or want to attend a convention in another post-Katrina situation?

Oh yeah, if I were a Gustav refugee the uppermost concern in my mind would be whether I was getting sufficient attention from Bill O'Reilly .... they won't even cancel all the football games in Louisiana and Texas this week, but canceling a convention in Minnesota is vital, right?

This post has been edited by Kzin: 31 August 2008 - 05:38 PM

[Herzl]

Kzin, on Aug 31 2008, 07:37 PM, said:

Oh yeah, if I were a Gustav refugee the uppermost concern in my mind would be whether I was getting sufficient attention from Bill O'Reilly .... they won't even cancel all the football games in Louisiana and Texas this week, but canceling a convention in Minnesota is vital, right?

Do you not think that Katrina could have been far worse had the attention from the national media not put pressure on the Governor and the Federal Government at the time? And above that don't you think that without the media attention that there might not be nearly as strong as an effort on getting those people out as there is today. The fact is that the public will be watching the hurricane, not the convention, and that may make a huge difference in how things are dealt with. Also, I really couldn't care what about a private sports group playing a game during a storm, and I hold a person in public office and potential leader of a country to a bit higher of a standard. I assure you that if this is another Katrina, no one will care about a game, they will care about lives though.

[Kzin]

Herzl, on Aug 31 2008, 04:42 PM, said:

Do you not think that Katrina could have been far worse had the attention from the national media not put pressure on the Governor and the Federal Government at the time? And above that don't you think that without the media attention that there might not be nearly as strong as an effort on getting those people out as there is today. The fact is that the public will be watching the hurricane, not the convention, and that may make a huge difference in how things are dealt with. Also, I really couldn't care what about a private sports group playing a game during a storm, and I hold a person in public office and potential leader of a country to a bit higher of a standard. I assure you that if this is another Katrina, no one will care about a game, they will care about lives though.

I think that every major disaster in this country, weather or otherwise, gets covered in mind-numbing 24-hour cable news depth no matter what a politician says or does. Would a few less reporters be on Gustav during the convention? Yes. Will those reporters now cover the actual disaster instead of what McCain is doing during the disaster? Generally, no.

Is McCain an EMT? Because he's not going to save a single life by personally flying to Louisiana. He's going exclusively for the purpose of scoring political points ... although you can hope for his sake it's not as clumsy as when Bush flew over Louisiana and "looked down from on high," that really worked out great.

McCain's guys have decided that this is better political theater for them than the convention ... and you know what, they're right, because getting elected has absolutely nothing to do with what you did or how you did it in this country, it's all about creating an image. As long as his campaign plane doesn't literally crash on a boatload of refugee orphans leaving the area, this will be a win for McCain. But it's a calculated win, please let's not pretend it's something else just because that's the message they want to sell.

[Kazuki Mutou]

Kzin, on Aug 31 2008, 07:48 PM, said:

I think that every major disaster in this country, weather or otherwise, gets covered in mind-numbing 24-hour cable news depth no matter what a politician says or does. Would a few less reporters be on Gustav during the convention? Yes. Will those reporters now cover the actual disaster instead of what McCain is doing during the disaster? Generally, no.

Is McCain an EMT? Because he's not going to save a single life by personally flying to Louisiana. He's going exclusively for the purpose of scoring political points ... although you can hope for his sake it's not as clumsy as when Bush flew over Louisiana and "looked down from on high," that really worked out great.

McCain's guys have decided that this is better political theater for them than the convention ... and you know what, they're right, because getting elected has absolutely nothing to do with what you did or how you did it in this country, it's all about creating an image. As long as his campaign plane doesn't literally crash on a boatload of refugee orphans leaving the area, this will be a win for McCain. But it's a calculated win, please let's not pretend it's something else just because that's the message they want to sell.

Well, obviously. I'd be quite surprised if someone disagreed.

[Herzl]

Quote

I think that every major disaster in this country, weather or otherwise, gets covered in mind-numbing 24-hour cable news depth no matter what a politician says or does. Would a few less reporters be on Gustav during the convention? Yes. Will those reporters now cover the actual disaster instead of what McCain is doing during the disaster? Generally, no.

First, yes disasters to get a lot of attention in TV in the hours after, but if the convention were taking place at the same time, the TV coverage would be somewhat divided. Breaks would be made for speeches, highlights of the event, etc... Without the convention taking place though, not only is this unlikey but it simply wont happen.

Secondly, there are far more forms of media than just TV. I don't need to list them all I'm sure, but the fact is that these would be divided, along with people's attention, if the convention were to go ahead.

Quote

Is McCain an EMT? Because he's not going to save a single life by personally flying to Louisiana. He's going exclusively for the purpose of scoring political points ... although you can hope for his sake it's not as clumsy as when Bush flew over Louisiana and "looked down from on high," that really worked out great.

I don't know if McCain has medical traning or not (I know thats not what you were getting at, but he could very well considering his military past), but that isn't the point anyway. The fact is that he may very well be President one day, and he is in government now as it is. This hurricane, if it is major, is also an issue that will be affecting the next President of the United States, especially during the first few weeks/months of their term. Because of that him seeing this may very well save lifes in the future, and even related to this disaster.

Quote

McCain's guys have decided that this is better political theater for them than the convention ... and you know what, they're right, because getting elected has absolutely nothing to do with what you did or how you did it in this country, it's all about creating an image. As long as his campaign plane doesn't literally crash on a boatload of refugee orphans leaving the area, this will be a win for McCain. But it's a calculated win, please let's not pretend it's something else just because that's the message they want to sell.

I'm not denying that it might change his image, but I am saying that this is not solely being done because of McCain's image. A future leader of the country needs to know what challenges his country may face, and I'd say that major damage to a semi-major city is a pretty big challenge. McCain seeing this first hand may very well save lives in the future, and can't possibly hurt.

[Lamuella]

frankly he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he keeps things as they were he's accused of fiddling while rome burns. If he goes to the disaster zone, he's accused of exploiting a tragedy.

[Vaal Satori]

Even God doesn't want McCain to be president.