[Red Dragon]

http://www.variety.c...e...958065&cs=1

It seems there is a section of Japan that denies their nations extreme war crimes when they invaded China, and I don't doubt that they deny their horrible treatment of POW's as well. Also, Tojo's granddaughter says that Japan fought a war of defense, and that its "unfair" that her grandfather was branded a class A war criminal.

http://www.theage.co...3353492785.html

I'm surprised this isn't covered more. Many Japanese seem unable to accept that their nation committed horrible atrocities in a dark period of their history. I can understand why, but they need to be able to accept that they were in the wrong.

This post has been edited by Red_Dragon: 07 August 2008 - 10:14 PM

[anenu]

nobody want to accept that they were wrong. If Germany had its way everything between 1930 and 1945 would be blank. This is why we repeat the mistakes of the past.

[agnews]

Red_Dragon, on Aug 8 2008, 12:14 PM, said:

http://www.variety.c...e...958065&cs=1

It seems there is a section of Japan that denies their nations extreme war crimes when they invaded China, and I don't doubt that they deny their horrible treatment of POW's as well. Also, Tojo's granddaughter says that Japan fought a war of defense, and that its "unfair" that her grandfather was branded a class A war criminal.

http://www.theage.co...3353492785.html

I'm surprised this isn't covered more. Many Japanese seem unable to accept that their nation committed horrible atrocities in a dark period of their history. I can understand why, but they need to be able to accept that they were in the wrong.

hey whatdo ya know
JAPAN spins

[TBaggins]

I think I remember my history teacher telling us something like "Japan is teaching students that America started the war with Japan."
He also told us that Japan says that what happened in china (as far as the $%&@ and such) never happened.

At least Germany came to terms with the holocaust and world war two, they just never talk about it.

[anenu]

TBaggins, on Aug 7 2008, 11:26 PM, said:

I think I remember my history teacher telling us something like "Japan is teaching students that America started the war with Japan."
He also told us that Japan says that what happened in china (as far as the $%&@ and such) never happened.

At least Germany came to terms with the holocaust and world war two, they just never talk about it.

How could they claim we started the war? We entered late and have video evidence of an attack. Plus several sunk ships, dead crewmen, and still living eye witnesses on both sides. Do they say we staged it all to enter a war?

[Arcturus Jefferson]

I believe they justify Pearl Harbor under the idea that our sanctions on them were an act of war. (We stopped selling them scrap metal or something).

[Germanic Republic]

From what I understand (meaning what I read in The Week because that's all I can find casually that covers it), this seems to be what Austria is doing.

Ostriching *is* convenient, but it never really solved much.

Quote

How could they claim we started the war? We entered late and have video evidence of an attack. Plus several sunk ships, dead crewmen, and still living eye witnesses on both sides. Do they say we staged it all to enter a war?

Well, we *did* stage the moon landing.

This post has been edited by Germanic Republic: 07 August 2008 - 10:35 PM

[Earogema]

Arcturus Jefferson, on Aug 7 2008, 11:33 PM, said:

I believe they justify Pearl Harbor under the idea that our sanctions on them were an act of war. (We stopped selling them scrap metal or something).

What I was thinking. Course, that's just stupid.

[anenu]

So stopping trading with them constitutes an act of war that kills thousands? And even if we staged the moon landing their were no casualties or sunk ships. And of course that is the stupidest thing ever since it would cost more to uphold that belief then actually landing on the moon.

[Esau of Isaac]

Arcturus Jefferson, on Aug 7 2008, 09:33 PM, said:

I believe they justify Pearl Harbor under the idea that our sanctions on them were an act of war. (We stopped selling them scrap metal or something).

We declared a total oil embargo, which pretty much would have ended up killing their military advancement, so the war itself became somewhat inevitable at that point.

Completely unjustifiable, but history revisionists aren't usually very reasonable anyways.

[TBaggins]

Arcturus Jefferson, on Aug 7 2008, 08:33 PM, said:

I believe they justify Pearl Harbor under the idea that our sanctions on them were an act of war. (We stopped selling them scrap metal or something).

Scrap metal and oil (back when we had it)

[Germanic Republic]

anenu, on Aug 7 2008, 11:45 PM, said:

So stopping trading with them constitutes an act of war that kills thousands? And even if we staged the moon landing their were no casualties or sunk ships. And of course that is the stupidest thing ever since it would cost more to uphold that belief then actually landing on the moon.

It was sarcasm.

This post has been edited by Germanic Republic: 07 August 2008 - 11:05 PM

[Mussolandia]

EDIT: the embargo thing, already covered

This post has been edited by Mussolandia: 07 August 2008 - 11:26 PM

[DJTJ7]

Almost every civ./nation of all time does something akin to this.

In the US we have many versions, from holocaust deniers, slavery deniers etc.

Even Australia, benine as they seem have this stuff. Many refuse to accept that they started as a penal colony. Others refuse to take any blame for absolutely decimating the aborigines.

[President Magee]

We seem benign do we? Excellent, my work is already half done...

I don't think anyone with a primary education in Australia would deny that the colonisation of the country began with penal colonies; that's not something we're really ashamed of. The damage done to Aboriginal populations (and culture) however is something that is frequently underestimated by a small number of revisionist groups, though that is an issue that is markedly different as to taking the blame for it. I don't think anybody who knows anything about the subject would suggest that white colonisation wasn't to blame for the majority of the aforementioned destruction, but many people today take exception to being blamed for it, as it was neither they nor in many cases their ancestors who had anything to do with it. But that's off-topic, in any case. Another discussion for another time.

As far as this goes, it's been happening to a degree for a number of years now. It's extremely unfortunate, yes, but you have to remember that so long as there's something objectionable to be found in any aspect of society, especially history, there will be people who will try to cover it up, especially in cases of extreme notoriety, such as WWII, because the simple fact is that some people just do not want to deal with it.

[Fluoroalien]

Arcturus Jefferson, on Aug 8 2008, 05:33 AM, said:

I believe they justify Pearl Harbor under the idea that our sanctions on them were an act of war. (We stopped selling them scrap metal or something).

I wonder how the justify the actions of Unit 731.


Aah, who am I kidding, I doubt most Japanese people have ever even heard of Unit 731

[King Tom]

Fluoroalien, on Aug 8 2008, 03:58 AM, said:

I wonder how the justify the actions of Unit 731.


Aah, who am I kidding, I doubt most Japanese people have ever even heard of Unit 731

Evey member of unit 731 should have been shot after the war.

[Sulla]

As a student and enthusiast of history, I will agree that Japan should face up to the truth about it's crimes during the war. However, the only things that need be accepted are facts about these activities. Any beliefs about the agressors during the war and who was in the wrong, is clearly a topic beyond conclusion.

I also believe that continually pressing Japan with pressure to stuff this information down their throats is a bad decision. Do we wish to create another generation of apologists, like today's Germany?

[Crushtania]

President Magee, on Aug 8 2008, 05:24 PM, said:

We seem benign do we? Excellent, my work is already half done...

I don't think anyone with a primary education in Australia would deny that the colonisation of the country began with penal colonies; that's not something we're really ashamed of. The damage done to Aboriginal populations (and culture) however is something that is frequently underestimated by a small number of revisionist groups, though that is an issue that is markedly different as to taking the blame for it. I don't think anybody who knows anything about the subject would suggest that white colonisation wasn't to blame for the majority of the aforementioned destruction, but many people today take exception to being blamed for it, as it was neither they nor in many cases their ancestors who had anything to do with it. But that's off-topic, in any case. Another discussion for another time.

As far as this goes, it's been happening to a degree for a number of years now. It's extremely unfortunate, yes, but you have to remember that so long as there's something objectionable to be found in any aspect of society, especially history, there will be people who will try to cover it up, especially in cases of extreme notoriety, such as WWII, because the simple fact is that some people just do not want to deal with it.

Australian students are almost never taught that the first Menzies government almost sold iron ore to the Japanese just prior to WWII. We also gloss over the fact that we had a White Australia Policy until 1972. That Prime Minister Billy Hughes told the Japanese they were sub-human during WWI treaty negotiations. That we almost didn't federate due to Queensland wanting to keep their Kanaka laborers, despite vehement calls for the nation to have "white racial purity." The allies still downplay the Dresden Firebombing of February 1945, which had flimsy justification.

Apologists or not, history and the facts are there to be remembered. What the Japanese people make of it is their own decision. Australia, despite its highly racist past did not make the entire population apologetic for it. Australia has been party to many nationalistic, anti-immigration and anti-multicultural movements springing up in just the last decade alone.

[America]

Islamic schools across the world don't teach about the Holocaust either. It shocks me how many people ignore the Holocaust for their benefit.