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Spy Attacks


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#1 Aeternos Astramora

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 06:10 PM

As of now, you can only spy on nations that have between half of your NS and twice your NS. However, if you're battling a nation, it's not uncommon for that nation to drop out of your NS range for spy attacks, and thus, you can no longer personally spy against the nation you're warring against.


Solution: Keep the NS range for spy attacks, but make an exemption for nations you're at war with.

#2 Philotheos

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 10:02 AM

You are not the only one to suggest this, this just happened to be the lucky one I decided to approve.

#3 iMatt

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 12:25 PM

It would for sure prevent the strategy Nuclear rogues use when they don't want their nukes to be spied away. Declare war, then sell their infra and go down in NS as far as they can in order to prevent there being nations in their spying range to spy on them. Making it much harder to spy nukes away, and much easier for rogues to do more damage.

I fully support this suggestion.

#4 Guido

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 03:45 PM

This is a great Idea. Its not fun when someone declares war on you, drops below your spying range, then nukes the heck out of you and you can't touch their nukes. Doesn't make much sense either.

#5 Aeternos Astramora

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 06:07 PM

You are not the only one to suggest this, this just happened to be the lucky one I decided to approve.

Whooo!


The problem I see with it most often is that the attacking nation can't change the defending nation's DefCon right before the ground attacks. I've heard this happening many times. The nuclear rogue case is definitely a possibility too where he's nuking you, but you can't touch his nukes.

#6 Delta1212

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 01:39 AM

They main problem with this, as I have repeatedly pointed out to certain people (You know who you are, Xiphosis) is that this would essentially turn spies into nothing more than another war tool like troops, planes and CM that you just happen to be able to use outside of battle. Essentially, it would make them into a part of the War System, which admin has already said he doesn't want to do, and then let you do the equivalent of conducting bombing runs on anyone within your NS range without having to declare war. This is difficult to notice since Spies are starting out on the opposite end from bombers in that analogy, but it winds up with exactly the same end result.

Furthermore, all of the issues you just described have two major flaws with them being issues. A: You seem to take it for granted that you need to be allowed to change your opponents DefCon and spy away his nukes. B: You're in an alliance. You should be able to coordinate with people in different strength brackets to cover all of your targets if need be. After all, it's not like they need to declare war first to use them.

#7 (DAC)Syzygy

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 04:20 AM

well the admin has already said he thinks about narrowing the war-declaration range in the future to prevent the usual "stomping" of lowlevel players. Something like this will then happen a lot more and even faster. I totally agree that you should be able to spy on someone you are at war with, regardless of range. Not everyone is in an alliance and can "coordinate" with others. I see no reason to prevent him using his hard-worked for tools. CIA+800 spies cost 120million, it is insane to forbid someone to fight a rogue with that, only because that rogue has sold off all his infra for example but is still nuking every day.

But of course this should work both ways: if you are exposed in a spy op against someone, he should be able do declare on you regardless of range as well. Makes spying even more risky (and funny) :P

#8 uaciaut

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 04:29 AM

Not too sure about this.

I mean if a rogue turtles himself out of spy range, it's his "merit" really, he's the one giving up all the hard work/time spent into building his infra, the fact that he's doing it to lower NS makes him an effective harder target to spy on (since most nations at his NS will prolly have low odds on him due to him having a big tech/infra ratio). Given the fact that infra's NS worth compared to Tech's worth isn't that big, i'm tempted to say no to this >.>

#9 (DAC)Syzygy

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 04:34 AM

well the total sale of all his infra is an "exploit" in itself I would say, since once you are engaged in a war, especially a nuclear war which will with a 100% probability *totally* extinct your nation - who would "buy" the infra? No one, you simply could not sell it to anyone.

As I suggested long before, close that hole by limiting the sale of infrastructure during war to max 10% daily.

#10 uaciaut

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 04:58 AM

well the total sale of all his infra is an "exploit" in itself I would say, since once you are engaged in a war, especially a nuclear war which will with a 100% probability *totally* extinct your nation - who would "buy" the infra? No one, you simply could not sell it to anyone.

As I suggested long before, close that hole by limiting the sale of infrastructure during war to max 10% daily.


More realism associations? <_<

HE'S RECYCLING THE MATERIALS, OKAY?!?

Edit: i agree with the limit thing, though i think it should be a bit bigger.

Edited by uaciaut, 18 May 2008 - 04:59 AM.


#11 Hassman

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 10:20 AM

i like it, lets do it =D

#12 Robertraccoon

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 02:22 PM

I like this idea. Maybe cost could go down too during war for ops.

#13 +Zeke+

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 06:45 PM

I definitely like this. The nation gets a range exemption for the rest of the war week once a declaration is made.

#14 Jinnai

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 09:03 PM

i don't know...i'm not entirely against this, but it would essentially make spies into war machines entirely. It might be okay if it gets progressively more difficult the further from the NS cutoff point he is.

#15 Franziskaner

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 09:40 PM

Spies are and aren't a war mechanism, during times of war you bet your bottom they are used for offensive means to improve your overall battle odds, that is the way of the world. During times of peace they are mostly used to get a "sneak peak" at your rival.

I would support this only in the fact that it improves their already existent warring function. It does nothing to improve their non-war functions which are fine just the way they are. The fact remains though that if spies weren't meant to be war machines like soldiers or Cruise Missiles then why are they given war functions?

#16 Junkalunka

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 11:04 AM

I strongly oppose this. The spy system was designed to be seperate from the war system, integrating spying into the war engine just makes it another war feature and takes out the coordination and strategy currently needed that adds a bit of depth.

In my opinion if spying on your enemy that has fallen out of range is so important then you need to coordinate your nations better.

#17 Andre27

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 12:40 PM

During war it would be special ops instead of spies, but then again what's in a name.

I support this proposal. Both nations would have the possibility to spy on each other.
It can even be considered more "fair".

Let's say that i target a nation at the absolute bottom range with a destructive attack (infra or tech destroy).
My spies were sloppy and got their identity revealed but got the job done nonetheless.
Outside of war, my opponent would have no options to fight back anymore since he/she dropped out of range due to the NS loss.

During war however my target would still have the option to fight back.

#18 admin

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 05:56 PM

I've always been against this idea but those of you for it have made many compelling arguments. I do like the idea of special ops and now that there is a link from the war & battles screen to spy operations it just makes sense to take that one step further and include spy operations between warring nations regardless of nation strength. I'm currently testing this suggested change and will add it to the game.

This is your advanced notice that this suggestion will be implemented soon. ;)




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