[Hertzy Scowicz]

http://uk.reuters.co...dName=worldNews

Quote

A French court gave far-right leader Jean-Marie Le Pen a three-month suspended prison sentence on Friday and fined him 10,000 euros (7,250 pounds) for saying that the Nazi occupation of France was "not particularly inhumane".

Don't get me wrong, I think holocaust denial is bad and stupid. What really gets me is that they jailed a politician for, essentially, being full of sh making preposterous claims. Still, this is an infringement on a man's freedom of speech. So what if he said something ridiculous? Let him make a fool of himself in public and refute his claims if you can. If you can't, shut the hell up and let the man talk, but whatever the case don't lock him up in a cell.

[Lord GVChamp]

Freedom of speech does not exist in a perfect society, citizen

[Smallfrog]

Justifying an invasion of your nation and the mass murders of your people comes close to treason. A 3 month suspended sentence is light.

[Xiao Weng]

I wasn't aware the French were victims of a Holocaust. French Jews, certainly, but not the general French population.

[Smallfrog]

Xiao Weng, on Feb 11 2008, 08:41 PM, said:

I wasn't aware the French were victims of a Holocaust. French Jews, certainly, but not the general French population.

There where massacre's of the French population, and I believe there where also concentration and death camps in France.

and the French Jews where victims as you say, which makes them as much victims of the holocaust as the Germans.

[Hertzy Scowicz]

Smallfrog, on Feb 11 2008, 10:33 PM, said:

Justifying an invasion of your nation and the mass murders of your people comes close to treason.

So would glorifying rebellion against the rightful government, yet I don't see a majority of US population answering for that in a British court.

[Xiao Weng]

Smallfrog, on Feb 11 2008, 02:43 PM, said:

There where massacre's of the French population, and I believe there where also concentration and death camps in France.

and the French Jews where victims as you say, which makes them as much victims of the holocaust as the Germans.

Show some proof, please. All I ever hear about French involvement in the war was the occupation and the Resistance, neither of which consisted of massacres of the French population, save the Jewish.

French Jews =/= France. The Jews suffered a Holocaust, not France, Germany, Austria, or any other. It was a systematic extermination based on hereditary and religious factors, not national ones.

[MadScotsman]

It wasn't just Jews either.

Jews =/= Only victims.

[Xiao Weng]

MadScotsman, on Feb 11 2008, 02:51 PM, said:

It wasn't just Jews either.

Jews =/= Only victims.

Still waiting for proof that most of France was systematically exterminated like the European Jewish population, hence why the term refers primarily to them as they were the largest casualty of that tragedy.

[Psyonif]

Hertzyscowicz, on Feb 11 2008, 08:13 PM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I think holocaust denial is bad and stupid. What really gets me is that they jailed a politician for, essentially, being full of sh making preposterous claims. Still, this is an infringement on a man's freedom of speech. So what if he said something ridiculous? Let him make a fool of himself in public and refute his claims if you can. If you can't, shut the hell up and let the man talk, but whatever the case don't lock him up in a cell.

Concur. There's lots of other genocides it's not illegal to deny, so singling out just the world's most well-known one as 'illegal to deny' smells like gross inconsistency.

[MadScotsman]

You're not allowed to deny the Armenian Massacre by the Ottoman Turks either I believe in France.

Not sure about the others though

[Lord GVChamp]

Can we outlaw labor theory of value, too?

[Smallfrog]

Xiao Weng, on Feb 11 2008, 08:56 PM, said:

Still waiting for proof that most of France was systematically exterminated like the European Jewish population, hence why the term refers primarily to them as they were the largest casualty of that tragedy.

It wasn't systematic or in a large scale. But the Germans still had allot of people killed.

Will find evidence as soon as this computer starts doing its stupid job.

[Psyonif]

But I bet you're allowed to deny the genocide of the Amalekites in Ye Olde times without drawing so much as a curious glance.

Why?
'Cos France dosn't contain a lot of Amalekite swing voters.

This post has been edited by Psyonif: 11 February 2008 - 03:08 PM

[Xiao Weng]

Psyonif, on Feb 11 2008, 02:57 PM, said:

Concur. There's lots of other genocides it's not illegal to deny, so singling out just the world's most well-known one as 'illegal to deny' smells like gross inconsistency.

But he's not, that's the problem. This has nothing to do with the Holocaust, it has everything to do with the German Occupation of France.

[Smallfrog]

Xiao Weng, on Feb 11 2008, 09:08 PM, said:

But he's not, that's the problem. This has nothing to do with the Holocaust, it has everything to do with the German Occupation of France.

The case and linked article don't either

misleading thread title

Quote

Le Pen was found guilty of "justification of war crimes" and "contesting crimes against humanity" in the trial which opened in December.

Thats the important phrase.

Anyway, there where 147 thousand French civilians killed in reprisals by Nazi forces according to wikipedia. (other than jews)
http://en.wikipedia....#endnote_France

[Xiao Weng]

Smallfrog, on Feb 11 2008, 03:11 PM, said:

The case and linked article don't either

misleading thread title


Thats the important phrase.

Anyway, there where 147 thousand French civilians killed in reprisals by Nazi forces according to wikipedia. (other than jews)
http://en.wikipedia....#endnote_France

Thank you, that helps.

I don't deny he was an idiot for saying what he did, my problem with this entire thing is that it's misleading.

I still think the occupation was horrible for France, especially as the Germans plundered her for years under the auspices of war reparations.

[Psyonif]

Xiao Weng, on Feb 11 2008, 09:08 PM, said:

But he's not, that's the problem. This has nothing to do with the Holocaust, it has everything to do with the German Occupation of France.

Ah, that's what I get for believing the thread title as opposed to the text.

So he's not being jailed for holocaust denial, but rather for "not particularly inhumane"?
This is even less sensible. Especially as he's completly right, if you look at the Germans next to good ol' Ghengis.

[Hertzy Scowicz]

Smallfrog, on Feb 11 2008, 11:11 PM, said:

The case and linked article don't either

misleading thread title

Sorry about that, I tend to file denying anything related to Nazi Germany under "Holocaust denial".

[Xiao Weng]

Psyonif, on Feb 11 2008, 03:13 PM, said:

Ah, that's what I get for believing the thread title as opposed to the text.

So he's not being jailed for holocaust denial, but rather for "not particularly inhumane"?
This is even less sensible. Especially as he's completly right, if you look at the Germans next to good ol' Ghengis.

Sentence was suspended, but the fine wasn't. He didn't actually get any jail time, just a fine. I expect if he keeps spouting his mouth like that, he's going to get into some very nasty trouble.