Congratulations to the GOP!

[WarriorConcept]

I don't think it really matters at all if MQ is an alliance or not. 

[Garion]

The fireworks here might be glorious, if they ever happen.

[BDRocks]

Let the fireworks begin. Thank you to the Doombirds, Timmeh and Christian Trojans, may Allarchon guide you and your fellow brothers to victory.

[willij]

Let the fireworks begin. Thank you to the Doombirds, Timmeh and Christian Trojans, may Allarchon guide you and your fellow brothers to victory.

Welcome to the fun guys. Though I am sad that CT was just a member of the GOP earlier today and now has moved on to those who would attack us. Oh well such is life.

[Rooman33]

Welcome to the fun guys. Though I am sad that CT was just a member of the GOP earlier today and now has moved on to those who would attack us. Oh well such is life.

 

Indeed. He set the record for fastest exit in GOP history. Guess we didn't glow his shade of Green.

 

Welcome to the fight DBDC. See you out there.

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

This should be fun, I only hope to have as much fun fighting you guys as I did fighting with you guys last war.

[RevolutionaryRebel]

I don't think it really matters at all if MQ is an alliance or not.

It could, we don't know until the smoke clears.

Despite all appearances, I hope it doesn't.

[mattski133]

Indeed. He set the record for fastest exit in GOP history. Guess we didn't glow his shade of Green.

 

Welcome to the fight DBDC. See you out there.

 

ever the loyal alliance member, that chap.

[jerdge]

Neutral to global conflicts. It can go around attacking people if it wants. GOP attacked MQ because it had an ideological difference with MQ. That doesn't change its neutrality toward any war that's happening.
 
As a different yet oddly similar example, how would you feel about a neutral that allowed tech raiding?

I think that most would say that neutrality requires fighting only in self-defence. If you go take a fight on purpose you're being hostile against the target of your attack, hence not neutral - unless you accept that one can be hostile and neutral at the same time towards the same thing.
Knowing how things can be spun at times, let me add that I am not with this saying or implying that the GOP is/isn't neutral and/or that they are waging a war of aggression/defence. AFAIK GOP says they're defending themselves, their principles and their doctrine, and MQ/DBDC says that the GOP are the aggressors. I for one wouldn't touch that issue with a fifteen foot pole: I am tolerant and neutral on the subject and I am happy with everyone believing whatever they believe.
 
 

GPA is acting decidedly isolationist and neutral in this conflict.

Neutral but not isolationist.

I don't think anyone would be surprised to learn that we're watching it attentively: we're just not messing with stuff that isn't our business to mess with, and we'll continue to do so (unless of course at some point it will come out that it's our business as well).

[Rooman33]

Neutral but not isolationist.

I don't think anyone would be surprised to learn that we're watching it attentively: we're just not messing with stuff that isn't our business to mess with, and we'll continue to do so (unless of course at some point it will come out that it's our business as well).

 

Well, I would argue that a "call to Jihad" which states "... Every Mushlim, after this event, will seek out and destroy a certain neutral alliance starting with the most vulnerable of international infidels... In the name of Allarchon, the merciful and compassionate, I call upon the faithful from around Planet Bob to join us on our Holy Quest to remove the neutral menace from these lands..." very clearly is "your business."

 

You know... given that the GPA is a neutral alliance and all. 

 

But, then again, that's why GOP is involved and the GPA isn't. We chose to interpret the threat differently. We took them for their word, and you folks are choosing to pretend that MQ intends to limit its aggression to TDO. Or you're just pretending to pretend to interpret the threat that way, and really you're just hoping this doesn't spread to you. And, hey, it's obviously within your alliance's right to interpret the threat how you wish. IMHO, there hasn't been a more boldfaced and obvious declaration of hostility towards neutrality since the War on Peace.

 

Maybe you see it that way too and are just choosing to respond differently, maybe you don't. But let's not pretend the GPA would get off the couch to do anything unless it was unwillingly and directly dragged to war. And even then... 

Edited September 24, 2013 by Rooman33

[Londo Mollari]

Well, I would argue that a "call to Jihad" which states "... Every Mushlim, after this event, will seek out and destroy a certain neutral alliance starting with the most vulnerable of international infidels... In the name of Allarchon, the merciful and compassionate, I call upon the faithful from around Planet Bob to join us on our Holy Quest to remove the neutral menace from these lands..." very clearly is "your business."

 

You know... given that the GPA is a neutral alliance and all. 

 

But, then again, that's why GOP is involved and the GPA isn't. We chose to interpret the threat differently. We took them for their word, and you folks are choosing to pretend that MQ intends to limit its aggression to TDO. Or you're just pretending to pretend to interpret the threat that way, and really you're just hoping this doesn't spread to you. And, hey, it's obviously within your alliance's right to interpret the threat how you wish. IMHO, there hasn't been a more boldfaced and obvious declaration of hostility towards neutrality since the War on Peace.

 

Maybe you see it that way too and are just choosing to respond differently, maybe you don't. But let's not pretend the GPA would get off the couch to do anything unless it was unwillingly and directly dragged to war. And even then... 

 

 

You're involved because you have become infected with adventurism and desire to make a name for yourself in war.  You are not so different from Al Mushqaeda (other than being less competent at war, and caring far more about your nation).  GPA (and for that matter TDO) are both genuinely neutral alliances.  TDO was given a far bigger casus belli than you back in the day, and I, along with the rest of the leaders on Aqua, offered them overwhelming military support in their cause.  In the end, they were too cowardly or too inactive or too committed to their principles to accept this offer and avenge themselves against those who wronged them, even though others offered to do most of the fighting.  I've always personally been of the opinion that TDO was a lot more of "just inactive" and GPA had more personality and culture and committement to principles as far as neutrals went.  This is certainly not my first time attacking an alliance because I think they are crap either.  Where was GOP when Athens and FoB attacked Knights of Ni! in 2009?  They didn't have any MDPs.  How about Thriller in 2011 when we rolled AcTi?  They didn't have any MDPs either.  What about when Poison Clan and \m/ attacked that treatyless yellow alliance in 2010 and Polar went after them.  Why weren't you there at the forefront with Polar?  Or really any number of other occassions? Where was your committment to defend the rights of those alliances then?

 

When it comes right down to it Rooman, you were just another bored opportunist hiding behind a thin veneer of neutrality.  That "neutrality" is gone forever now - you're just as much of an aggressor as I am.  And, given the circumstances, you calling GPA out in this thread for not doing what you want is the funniest thing I've seen in CN for a long time.

[The Zigur]

Londo, didnt you guys basically declare a jihad on neutrality? You gave GOP the "thin veneer" necessary for a Casus Belli. You may have intended to only target TDO, but the saber rattling against neutrality is what brought in GOP as an enemy. You should know by now that careless words can come back to bite later.

[Rooman33]

You're involved because you have become infected with adventurism and desire to make a name for yourself in war.  You are not so different from Al Mushqaeda (other than being less competent at war, and caring far more about your nation).  GPA (and for that matter TDO) are both genuinely neutral alliances.  TDO was given a far bigger casus belli than you back in the day, and I, along with the rest of the leaders on Aqua, offered them overwhelming military support in their cause.  In the end, they were too cowardly or too inactive or too committed to their principles to accept this offer and avenge themselves against those who wronged them, even though others offered to do most of the fighting.  I've always personally been of the opinion that TDO was a lot more of "just inactive" and GPA had more personality and culture and committement to principles as far as neutrals went.  This is certainly not my first time attacking an alliance because I think they are crap either.  Where was GOP when Athens and FoB attacked Knights of Ni! in 2009?  They didn't have any MDPs.  How about Thriller in 2011 when we rolled AcTi?  They didn't have any MDPs either.  What about when Poison Clan and \m/ attacked that treatyless yellow alliance in 2010 and Polar went after them.  Why weren't you there at the forefront with Polar?  Or really any number of other occassions? Where was your committment to defend the rights of those alliances then?

 

When it comes right down to it Rooman, you were just another bored opportunist hiding behind a thin veneer of neutrality.  That "neutrality" is gone forever now - you're just as much of an aggressor as I am.  And, given the circumstances, you calling GPA out in this thread for not doing what you want is the funniest thing I've seen in CN for a long time.

 

In none of the instances you cite (at least of the ones since we established the DTOM doctrine) were those alliances attacked simply because they were neutral. This is the first war, that we know of, that has been declared on an alliance simply because it is neutral and it is therefore the first one to trigger our DTOM doctrine. Beyond that, the CB explicitly threatened all of neutrality - making it an open and shut case for our defensive involvement. Pretty straight forward. But please, by all means, continue spinning the narrative that the alliance that hasn't fought a war in five years is just an aggressive, opportunist warmonger looking for glory. Brilliant political analysis. 

Edited September 24, 2013 by Rooman33

[Londo Mollari]

In none of the instances you cite (at least of the ones since we established the DTOM doctrine, were those alliances attacked simply because they were neutral. This is the first war, that we know of, that has been declared on an alliance simply because it is neutral and it is therefore the first one to trigger our DTOM doctrine. Pretty straight forward. But please, by all means, continue spinning the narrative that the alliance that hasn't fought a war in five years is just an aggressive, opportunist warmonger looking for glory. Brilliant political analysis. 

 

Wait so now you're lecturing me on why I and some of my close allies did things in the past?  Hahaha.  And no, TDO was not attacked simply because they are neutral.  If MQ had wanted to attack all neutrals, we would have declared on all neutrals.  Guess what?  We didn't.

 

And you are absolutely an opportunist here.  Good luck spinning that one away.  I'm not sure how much glory you expect to get from attacking an alliance that was already attacking an alliance bigger than itself, and being attacked by 2 or 3 other alliances before you joined, but there you go.  Lol.

[jerdge]

Well I'll thank you (two/all) if you try to limit at a minimum the dragging of the GPA into your dispute.

As for pretending or pretending to pretend, I am not doing either. The GPA has never been guaranteed safety as all the good members of the Agency know very well. I don't know how well/bad the Agency can fight and I doubt anyone can claim they know it either, as the last test was so much long ago, but I know that we prefer not to have to.
If nonetheless we'll have to, we will do our best, and eventually we'll live on... Which is all I need to know.

[Rooman33]

Well I'll thank you (two/all) if you try to limit at a minimum the dragging of the GPA into your dispute.

As for pretending or pretending to pretend, I am not doing either. The GPA has never been guaranteed safety as all the good members of the Agency know very well. I don't know how well/bad the Agency can fight and I doubt anyone can claim they know it either, as the last test was so much long ago, but I know that we prefer not to have to.
If nonetheless we'll have to, we will do our best, and eventually we'll live on... Which is all I need to know.

 

Fair enough.

 

And I hope our efforts here mean you never have to fight just to exist. That's what this is all about - whether you appreciate/acknowledge that or not.

[Shaka Zulu]

Rooman, I see you're still standing up for what you believe in. :ph34r:

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

Well I'll thank you (two/all) if you try to limit at a minimum the dragging of the GPA into your dispute.

As for pretending or pretending to pretend, I am not doing either. The GPA has never been guaranteed safety as all the good members of the Agency know very well. I don't know how well/bad the Agency can fight and I doubt anyone can claim they know it either, as the last test was so much long ago, but I know that we prefer not to have to.
If nonetheless we'll have to, we will do our best, and eventually we'll live on... Which is all I need to know.

 

This is all GPA's fault. 

[flak attack]

This is all GPA's fault. 

 

Well, Azaghul and I were two of the more vocal supporters of Mushqaeda declaring, so...

Edited September 24, 2013 by flak attack

[Samwise]

Well I'll thank you (two/all) if you try to limit at a minimum the dragging of the GPA into your dispute.

 

I do apologize Jerdge. From what I know, the GPA does have members that agree with our soft neutrality, though it is my understanding that they are the minority. I daresay you might agree with what we're doing here, but because so many people read your posts as official stances of the GPA you must reflect the Agency's stance in them. I could be way off base on that, but either way I respect you and the GPA. As a neutral I realize that even if GPA members did agree with what we're doing here, they certainly couldn't come in here and hail our efforts. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a gag order in place. I apologize again, and I personally will tone down the GPA comments.

 

I don't know how well/bad the Agency can fight and I doubt anyone can claim they know it either, as the last test was so much long ago, but I know that we prefer not to have to. If nonetheless we'll have to, we will do our best, and eventually we'll live on... Which is all I need to know.

 

Actually, as former Minister of Defense for War Doves in their most successful round of TE, I can. Dat Kurdanak :ehm:

 

(I realize that War Doves only make up a small percentage of GPA's active membership, but I had to give Kurdanak some props. It's in my contract that I mention his name in at least 1 out of 10 OWF posts.)

Edited September 26, 2013 by Samwise

[WarriorConcept]

ITT Londo lectures someone on opportunism.

[tamerlane]

Shut up and enjoy burning with the rest of us. 

[willij]

Well, it's finally happened, and we here at the DBDC could not be happier.  We've been awaiting the moment when GOP shatters its neutrality forever, and we welcome you with open arms to the ranks of the militarized alliances and hostilities and needless bloodshed that come with that.

 

You have made a wise decision GOP, as previously you could have stayed neutral and preserved those staggeringly bloated infra numbers, but you chose this moment to flex your muscle, and DBDC loves your moxy baby!  We understand you have a problem with the alliance known as Mushqaeda, and have attacked them without actually being attacked yourselves!  Bravo for this, and fortunately for all of us, we also share a strong feeling with that alliance.

 

Here's to open hostility and to your quest to get Rooman's infra down to manageable levels.

 

o/ GOP

I have you just where I want you guys now. Reducing my bills so that my nations leaders can stop whining about raising the debt limit.

[CubaQuerida]

I have you just where I want you guys now. Reducing my bills so that my nations leaders can stop whining about raising the debt limit.

Here's to helping each other out.  My inhabitants thought the grass was Green-er on your side, so they asked me to take it.

 

(DBDC recognizes a state of war with GOP)

[Rooman33]

I have you just where I want you guys now. Reducing my bills so that my nations leaders can stop whining about raising the debt limit.

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

(GOP recognizes a state of war with DBDC)