[Soviet Sindorin]

(( OP's Note: I want this thread to remain Scientific, and Respectful at all times. At no point do I want a person to come in hear yell, "z0mg! Stupid Commies", and vice versa, I don't want "z0mg, capitalists" either. Follow the Debate Etiquette. ))


First Off, here's what Wikipedia has to say on Mother Russia, and other various Topics:

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
Russian 1917 Revolution
The Great Purge 1928-1938-39
The Cold War



Going off of what the trend in the other USSR Topic is, I'll address the Clergy First and explain why the Church had to be repressed. At the Time, the Orthodox Church was actively seeking to subvert the Bolshevik Government after the overthrow of the Kerensky Provisional Government. If you're faced with an Active, Subversive Element, the natural thing to do is to attempt to stamp it out. You cannot reason with the clergy, because the only compromise would be the removal of Russian Socialists from power. So, in my opinion, and according to what many Marxists believe, the Church is an impediment to the advancement of the Proletarian in Post 1917 Russia.

Furthermore, I would like to address the Great Purge of the 1930's and World War 2. According to Dr. Robert Service, who is at present a Professor of Russian History at the University of Cambridge, somewhere along the lines of 19 Million People died during the Great Purges, and this number takes into account the number of Civilian deaths as a result of Stalin's Wartime Policies of World War 2. Stalin was not an Anti-Semite, but I do think he is guilty of being a Great Russian Chauvinist.

I'd like some opinions on Russia From 1917-1991.

This post has been edited by Soviet Sindorin: 28 December 2007 - 07:28 AM

[Jack Grist]

The cold war was not only stupid, but a threat to all human life. Cant we all just get along?

But anyway, the USSR had the first man in space, but the US just got to the moon. But i think the USSR and the United States should of ended the cold war long before 1991.

This post has been edited by Jack Grist: 28 December 2007 - 09:07 AM

[Soviet Sindorin]

Had Detente worked out, it could have.

[Eudaimonia]

Before people start coming in here posting long dusty theses about communism that I will never read, can I ask what does a political theory, it's application and human history have to with "science". Science deals with the natural world, not human constructs like government, society and history.

[Soviet Sindorin]

Eudaimonia, on Dec 28 2007, 10:13 AM, said:

Before people start coming in here posting long dusty theses about communism that I will never read, can I ask what does a political theory, it's application and human history have to with "science". Science deals with the natural world, not human constructs like government, society and history.

Political Sciences. Sociology.

[Eudaimonia]

Soviet Sindorin, on Dec 28 2007, 03:29 PM, said:

Political Sciences. Sociology.

Just because they are made to look like sciences doesn't mean they are. You can't study and predict human behavior they way you can natural phenomena.

[Soviet Sindorin]

Quote

You can't study and predict human behavior they way you can natural phenomena.

Marx would disagree. Material Dialectics.

[deSouza]

Soviet Sindorin, on Dec 28 2007, 01:40 PM, said:

Marx would disagree. Material Dialectics.

Well, marx was wrong in that area.
Take a look at USSR or China, did the revolution came the way he expected?
Moreover, was germany the stage of the establishing of scientifical socialism in practice?

[Soviet Sindorin]

deSouza, on Dec 28 2007, 10:45 AM, said:

Well, marx was wrong in that area.
Take a look at USSR or China, did the revolution came the way he expected?
Moreover, was germany the stage of the establishing of scientifical socialism in practice?

We've established that thought, conscience, and ideas are merely chemical reactions occuring within the brain, which is along the lines of Scientific Marxism.

[Jormungand]

Quote

Just because they are made to look like sciences doesn't mean they are. You can't study and predict human behavior they way you can natural phenomena.

Certainly, but there's a difference between being unable to assess human and social behaviour with the accuracy that the physical sciences do and being unable to assess human and social behaviour with any accuracy at all.

The social sciences are 'sciences' in a sense and in some cases can get about as close to a physical sciences experiment as you can get (Milgram's experiment with the electrical shocks, for example.) T At best, it can be said that when the term 'social science' is used, the 'scientific principles' bear some relation to the ones used in the physical sciences in the same way that the everyday usage of the word 'theory' is different to the use of the term 'theory' in the social sciences. If this seems wrong, it's important to remember that unlike the creationist movement, for example, these terms are not misrepresented; most social scientists are aware of the limitations involved in their subject and research methods.

[deSouza]

Soviet Sindorin, on Dec 28 2007, 01:56 PM, said:

We've established that thought, conscience, and ideas are merely chemical reactions occuring within the brain, which is along the lines of Scientific Marxism.

True that, but we don't really know jack about those chemical reactions and therefore any study in it isn't a science, but a pseudo or quasi science.

[Frank Carbonni]

deSouza, on Dec 29 2007, 02:24 AM, said:

True that, but we don't really know jack about those chemical reactions and therefore any study in it isn't a science, but a pseudo or quasi science.

No. The studies of the chemical reactions are a real science.

Speculation and spouting half-baked theories based on it in a vain attempt to support ideology or philosophy is pseudo-science.

I'll also be fair in saying that Communists aren't the only ones that do this--nor do all of them do it--there are plenty on my side and people in other beliefs that do that as well.

[deSouza]

Frank Carbonni, on Dec 28 2007, 02:34 PM, said:

No. The studies of the chemical reactions are a real science.

Yes, but the chemichal reactions that lead to/are thought, as i meant, what do we know about it?

[Eudaimonia]

And even if we did know anything about those chemical reactions, I doubt they'd have any implications on this topic I've unfortunately derailed here. Sorry about that.

I'll move along. Post your theses!

[Kenadian_2006]

The most I know about Russia from that period is under Stalin. Now, I think it goes without saying I don't like him. I never have and never will, he was a horrible leader. From the gutting of his armed forces to the deportation of political prisoners to Siberia and to the lengthening of the Korean War, he was horrible. One could very much argue that he held Russia back while he was alive.

[Anglo-fuhrer]

It's odd that in a post about the Soviet Union, you refer to "mother Russia"...politically incorrect terminology under Soviet Communism could get you in real trouble. Talk of the Rodina sounds like dangerous counter-revolutionary nationalism to me.

[stumpguppy]

Quote

lengthening of the Korean War.

Your confusing the facts. It was the Chinese who actually got involved in the Korean War not the Soviets.
it still amazing that after the fall of communism and the advent of capitalism the life span of the average russian male has actually dropped to around 56 years. thats as low or lower than some 3rd world nations!

This post has been edited by stumpguppy: 28 December 2007 - 06:04 PM

[Red Dragon]

deSouza, on Dec 28 2007, 04:35 PM, said:

Yes, but the chemichal reactions that lead to/are thought, as i meant, what do we know about it?

lets just agree that the human nature argument on both sides is a strawman.

[Kenadian_2006]

stumpguppy, on Dec 28 2007, 06:50 PM, said:

Your confusing the facts. It was the Chinese whom got involved in the Korean War not the Soviets.

I remember learning that Stalin was interfering in one way or another with peace talks. That it was only after his death that the negotiations made headway and the cease fire was signed.

[Anglo-fuhrer]

China did not supply the MIG 15's. The USSR did. And pilots.