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Change Resources in SE like you can in TE


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#1 admin

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 06:37 AM

What are your thoughts on the update to TE where you can select your own native resources and adding that feature to SE?

#2 KingShibby

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 06:42 AM

What are your thoughts on the update to TE where you can select your own native resources and adding that feature to SE?


Absolutely not. About the only thing I would support is allowing a nation to reroll their resources once. Either that, or let a nation select 1 of it's resources and the other one is randomly selected.

#3 Goldie

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 06:56 AM

Absolutely not. About the only thing I would support is allowing a nation to reroll their resources once. Either that, or let a nation select 1 of it's resources and the other one is randomly selected.


Right. Trades in a lot of cases are difficult, maybe a little too difficult, but there is no reason to drop the atomic bomb of simplicity on this. I can dig some sort of limited rerolling of resources, I don't think a 'select your own resource' will be good for the game.

#4 jammar

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:07 AM

I would like it. It gives everyone the same chances. And depending how it's introduced (how often you can change resources) it could provide an advantage if you're active.

In TE there was switching TC's based on the situation, building infra up, collecting or war.

Most resources have a advantage in some situation, and this would cause bad resources to be popular in different situations. For example lead is useless in peacetime, but really handy in war.

#5 Goldie

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:10 AM

I also cringe to think of how many trade rings will blow up that very day, when people ditch their less active or familiar partners with good resources for their more active friends who just rolled for the same resources, or people shoot for the stars and leave a whole ring in the dust.

I don't think that kind of shuffling on a game-wide scale is good for many of the players.

#6 Ashoka the Great

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:17 AM

Oh God no....and for all the reasons listed above.

#7 lonewolfe2015

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:19 AM

I'll say this again, the disparity in trades will not go away if this is implemented. People won't bother changing circles, some still won't use the best trades. But what it will do is give small nations the chance to grow at an optimized rate to try and catch the bigger nations quicker.

You could potentially (depending on the swap time frame) allow active nations to have infra, war, collection, bill circles. I've rerolled once to rid myself of lead/silver in the past when I had a 40k+ nation. I'm not the only one either.

Let it be known though, with this change I do also feel there needs to be a greater balance and retooling in resources. New resources to tempt players to change their trades up, perhaps a rotation of resource effects as time goes on.

And if this is so opposed by players, the potential to have rare resource limits wouldn't be impossible I'd assume.

#8 Altheus

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:29 AM

I'm in favour. Yes it would change the game radically, but sorting out trades circles etc. doesn't add anything to the game and is a massive source of frustration, due to having a bad starting combination of trades, not being able to complete a trade circle and often forcing people off their preferred colour sphere (and therefore affecting senate votes etc) For the lucky few who somehow have managed to build themselves a stable trade circle it'd probabuly be a pain, because they be forced to rearrange, but your average player would probabuly love it.

Edited by Altheus, 08 September 2011 - 07:31 AM.


#9 Biff Webster

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 08:34 AM

All nuclear rogues having native uranium sounds pretty scary to me.

#10 TigerBaby

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 08:49 AM

I have made a number of posts concerning this recently and it's not for myself I want this because even with a choice I still wouldn't change my own uranium/wheat which I have no trouble gettingt trades with. The game population has fallen to a level where it's well nigh impossible for people with less popular resources to keep full trades far less a trade circle and they are disappearing in droves due to the fact it's become such a hassle.

I would appeal to you to implement this immediately as it would save my alliance from losing yet another long term player of 943 days standing who is at this moment 22 days inactive and heading for inactivity deletion due to the fact he has now given up on the game solely due to trade issues.

Aside from keeping such long term players in the game I believe it would go a long way to helping us keep the newer players who delete within weeks of joining due to the impossibility of filling and keeping trades with unpopular native resources and a shrinking population.

Edited by TigerBaby, 08 September 2011 - 08:51 AM.


#11 Magicman657

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 08:59 AM

I know I've been very vocal about this in the past few weeks but this is really important so let me reiterate my feelings here. I'd like to begin by offering my complete and sincere gratitude to admin for specifically opening up this issue as this has needed addressing for years now and will be (in my opinion) the single best change that has ever been made to make the game more balanced.


I absolutely 120% support this proposal. This is an absolutely essential, necessary change to the system and there is literally no justification for just leaving the resource system the way it is. I think the biggest problem with getting this approved though is that a very large number of people that this proposal would have benefited have already quit the game because of just how terrible the current resource system is. So, please keep in mind that the percentage of people still here is biased towards keeping the resources the way they are as the many of those who really would have liked it to have been changed have already completely given up hope and just outright quit the game. There have been numerous posts by many different people that can attest to that, and until about 2-3 weeks ago that was in fact myself included. I was seriously ready to delete my nation of 4.5 years just to change my two damn resources (and the only thing that stopped me from doing it was a desperate plea from my best friend who needed my help with United Equestria). If that isn't sparking major alarm bells in your head, it should be. There have been countless players who HAVE done precisely that.


The first thing we need to do here if we're trying to be objective and logical about this is to understand what the actual goal is here. I think that the goal should be to create as fair a playing field game play wise for all nations as possible while also making sure we encourage people to continue playing. I'm fairly certain most of us will agree to that.


Then, let's examine closer why this current system is completely and utterly worthless. There are two main issues with the system, which I will identify as the permanency aspect and the randomness aspect, as well as one thing that is affected by the two together, Rerolling.
*** Permanency ***
This is in reference to the fact that resources are currently permanent. There is no way to change them, ever. Each nation has a completely unending supply of exactly two resources and no matter how ridiculously developed they become, no matter how many megacities and space stations you develop, if wine and furs are your resources, you will always be stuck with them. This is a problem. As nations grow, their needs change. Nations have different aspects upon which they may need or wish to focus on at any given point, and that often requires a different set of resources. For example, a young nation will likely want a set of resources that reduces technology costs so they can do tech deals to start developing more. As they progress, they will wish to shift into an infra buying set, and as they get much older and more developed, it's likely they may want to shift into an income or citizen boosting set. Because your resources are permanent, that will affect how well you are able to transition. If you have Lumber and Iron, you can transition into literally any single resource set in the game without question and never have problems finding trade partners. Our Furs and Wine nation however will not be so lucky; that nation will likely be locked into a single possible resource set for its entire existence. This is completely unfair to the person stuck with the "bad" resources, while the Furs and Wine might be good for an income boosting set, that nation will be forced to use less than optimal sets for its whole life while the Lumber and Iron nation has a superior advantage by being locked into resources that can be used in whatever bonus set that nation needs. Thus, this conclusively shows that having resources being permanent creates unfair advantages and an unbalanced playing field for everyone.

*** Randomness ***
This issue somewhat relates to the permanency one, but deserves to be examined on its own. Nations start the game with random resources. There is no strategic decision involved; you are just handed two resources at random and told to do whatever. This is obviously a problem. Nations that get two good resource rolls immediately will have an advantage for however long it takes the other competing nations to get the same resources, which is be represented by the number of days between a resource change. In fact, because it's random, it's statistically possible that a certain nation will NEVER get a good set of resources, or that even if they do, it very well could take months or even years (if they're REALLY unlucky) to do it. Randomness does have its place in CN, like with the event system- they minorly impact your nation for a few weeks and then they're gone. Resources are the single most important economic part of the game, and as such, there is no reason for them to be random. So as we can see, randomness in resources kills strategy and provides unfair advantages to those who get "lucky" enough to get what they want from the start.

*** Inactivity via "Rerolling" ***
There is one more important thing to note here as well, and this is the result of both randomness and permanency being coupled together- it encourages players to actually "reroll" resources on their nations. Rerolling a nation consists of deleting a nation and waiting to recreating it (I think it's like 5-10 days?) if you don't get the right combination of resources to start with in order to try and get a better pair. This right here should be a prime example of why this system is worthless. I challenge you to find one other game that exists in which the best strategy for success is to NOT PLAY for one or more weeks. And we all encourage our new recruits to do this because we want them to succeed! Who in their right mind wants to be a part of a game that forces them to not participate in order to be able to play and succeed? Not to mention all the older players who would have to sacrifice well built nations simply because as a new player no one bothered to inform them that they'd be at a huge disadvantage for the rest of their existence. This is a major breach of our second goal, which is to keep players active in the game.



If you've been paying attention, you should have seen that including any form of randomness or permanency into the resource system is simply a waste of time. It creates an overall negative impact on gameplay. In fact, if we wanted a more balanced game, removing resources from the game entirely would actually improve it in that regard as it removes major elements of luck and unfairness. Of course, I think that most of us would prefer that we kept resources and didn't remove them, so if we're still thinking logically about this, then the only possible solution is to remove the randomness and permanency of resources in game.

Some of you may be concerned that this will create an over abundance of certain resources in the game. Yes, that is probably true. I could offer you some theories as to why it wouldn't be a bad thing, but those are debatable. What's not debatable is this- what you fail to consider is that anyone who CAN have those resources right now already DOES do this. The only real change is that we're removing an unfair element of play against those nations not lucky enough to be able to do that. I personally think that's kind of a slap in the face to all of them, and if you still think that the current system should stay random and permanent, then you really are saying you just don't give a crap about those players and that's a completely horrible way to design a game.


This is an absolutely NECESSARY change to the game and I beg of you to implement it as soon as possible. My only recommendation is that you make the time limit between individual resource changes either 30 days or 60 days if you feel 1 month is too short, just so people don't abuse it to maximize income every 20 days via sledding.

#12 Hiro Nakara

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:06 AM

What are your thoughts on the update to TE where you can select your own native resources and adding that feature to SE?



Please ohhh please allow this :D if I only knew wine sucked so much I'd have re-rolled long ago, but 3+years into this game it's too late now.

#13 Jacob Reiffenstein

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:09 AM

What are your thoughts on the update to TE where you can select your own native resources and adding that feature to SE?


It absolutely needs to be implemented ASAP! The resource trading system is broken, and for those with weaker resources rolled at Nation start-up, it has become a nightmare trying to establish stable trade sets, especially with the number of players declining.

Please do it, for the sake of the game.

#14 Bacon God

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:13 AM

I agree with the magician on this issue.

#15 Iceknave

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:19 AM

Of course, I think that most of us would prefer that we kept resources and didn't remove them, so if we're still thinking logically about this, then the only possible solution is to remove the randomness and permanency of resources in game.

You can still keep a sense of randomness by allowing a nation to "reroll" one or both of their resources every x number of days (x can be anything from 30 days to say, 3 months, just so people aren't switching resources all the time. Longer time between "rerolls" would increase the "permanency" effect a bit (but less than it currently is now).

I think a more moderated approach between total randomness and total permanency and no randomness and no permanency would be best. It'll throw in a bit of luck as a element and allow people to more seriously consider whether their resources are good or not (and if they later regret it, they can fix it down the road).

Could also use it as a method to drain cash from the game a bit, by implementing it as a wonder that increases in cost for every additional "reroll" of resources one makes and block the whole I'm a rogue with a MP and uranium in newer nations (not exactly a whole lot we can do about current larger wannabe nuclear rogues though or could block uranium as a resource that could be acquired by rerolling) and there's NOTHING you can do about it.(ie, first time, it's fairly cheap, say around 50 million, second time, it gets more expensive, say, 100 million, third time, even more expensive, say 250 million, fourth time, even more expensive, say 450 million etc.). Numbers can be adjusted, of course (pattern for my pricing scheme is base price + (# of reroll -1) * base price). It'll also add something new for members of pretty much any size with the funds to do so to do it.

#16 Magicman657

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:33 AM

You can still keep a sense of randomness by allowing a nation to "reroll" one or both of their resources every x number of days (x can be anything from 30 days to say, 3 months, just so people aren't switching resources all the time. Longer time between "rerolls" would increase the "permanency" effect a bit (but less than it currently is now).

I think a more moderated approach between total randomness and total permanency and no randomness and no permanency would be best. It'll throw in a bit of luck as a element and allow people to more seriously consider whether their resources are good or not (and if they later regret it, they can fix it down the road).

Could also use it as a method to drain cash from the game a bit, by implementing it as a wonder that increases in cost for every additional "reroll" of resources one makes and block the whole I'm a rogue with a MP and uranium in newer nations (not exactly a whole lot we can do about current larger wannabe nuclear rogues though or could block uranium as a resource that could be acquired by rerolling) and there's NOTHING you can do about it.(ie, first time, it's fairly cheap, say around 50 million, second time, it gets more expensive, say, 100 million, third time, even more expensive, say 250 million, fourth time, even more expensive, say 450 million etc.). Numbers can be adjusted, of course (pattern for my pricing scheme is base price + (# of reroll -1) * base price). It'll also add something new for members of pretty much any size with the funds to do so to do it.

It would be better than the current system (as literally any improvement would) but it wouldn't completely fix the problem.

The issue with randomness is that because resources provide the most significant economic impact on your nation, anyone who rolls the "right" resources first automatically has an unfair advantage over anyone who doesn't have the same amazing luck as them, and basically it just means that those unfortunate people are then encouraged to simply ignore the game for the most part until the next chance they get to try and reroll them.

Obviously with our goals being fair play and activeness, you can see that the randomness aspect is a big problem in its own right. I normally do like to compromise but there isn't any real way to do that here; in order to actually fix the issues at hand you have to remove BOTH aspects- randomness and permanency.

#17 Necromancer V4L

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:53 AM

Some of you may be concerned that this will create an over abundance of certain resources in the game. Yes, that is probably true. I could offer you some theories as to why it wouldn't be a bad thing, but those are debatable. What's not debatable is this- what you fail to consider is that anyone who CAN have those resources right now already DOES do this. The only real change is that we're removing an unfair element of play against those nations not lucky enough to be able to do that. I personally think that's kind of a slap in the face to all of them, and if you still think that the current system should stay random and permanent, then you really are saying you just don't give a crap about those players and that's a completely horrible way to design a game.


This, 1000x this. I think this is a great idea, and while it's a drastic change in gameplay, it's one for the better.

#18 TigerBaby

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 10:22 AM

Absolutely not.


Says the man with aluminum/iron and a complete 3br circle who wouldn't think of giving a trade to some poor sod stuck with oil/wine. How surprising.

#19 HeroofTime55

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 10:28 AM

This needs to be implemented. It will add a whole new depth to coordination within trade circles, first of all, and second of all, it avoids screwing over everyone who didn't realize that they were getting stuck with strictly worse resources.

This needs to be done, absolutely. As someone who has just recently brought in 100+ players to the game, coordinating their re-rolls so they weren't stuck with bad resources is an absolute nightmare, trying to convince them why they should stay in spite of such a flawed system. And these folks are the lucky ones, they have someone who is there to help them through this.

All the people who are upset that their trades are going to be messed up for a week or two need to get the hell over it. This is the sort of thing that will lead to higher retention rates of new players.

#20 memoryproblems

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 12:13 PM

I think a fair compromise would probably be just to allow nations to get randomly generated new resources, and perhaps have a price to do it similar to how it costs to move moon/mars wonders.

Keeping the way it is a headache, but going full-stop to the way TE does it is an over-reaction. It'd sure make trades easier, which would reduce some of the frustration, but it has its own problems, and if you look above at all the 'god no' posts, you'll see that some people are just enemies of change.

I'd like some change in the trade system, whether its the TE system or one where you can have new resources selected randomly without the need to re-roll and give up all your wonders and stuff.




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