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karma

Posted by jerdge , in OOC 14 March 2011 · 169 views

(Disclaimer: in this entry I talk of karma, not of Karma.)

That old attack on the GPA keeps being mentioned three years after its end, and (almost) always to the detriment of those that participated in the aggression. It might be one of the purest examples of "bad karma" of CN, i.e. something that keeps coming back to bite, again and again, those that did it (not every one in the same measure, honestly).
Also, few other extremely old events are referenced this often and with such "detail": one would think that the ideological impact of that war was bigger and deeper than what was initially thought. It was paradigmatic for the game.

(Although let's be frank: most of us forum people definitely sound like retired fishermen when there's any occasion to revive really ancient stuff...)




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Prodigal Moon
Mar 14 2011 07:32 PM
I think if you could rate both the size of a target and the pointlessness of an attack from 1 - 10, the Woodstock Massacre would have the highest combined score of anything that's happened. It was pretty much the definitive example of a hegemony throwing its weight around with zero check on its power. The only way to take it to the next level would be to drop all pretense and announce that alliances outside the hegemony would be picked off one by one until they all fall into line. A part of me hopes to actually see that someday, just to see whether any future grouping can pull it off without being torn apart by paranoia and infighting.

The only way to take it to the next level would be to drop all pretense and announce that alliances outside the hegemony would be picked off one by one until they all fall into line.


Let us hope that never happens.
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BastardofGod
Mar 15 2011 01:26 AM
The great tragedy is that GPA didn't pick up the war hammer after the war.
Umbrella, VE and FOK all yet to take a kicking
It pretty much only gets used against NPO; it hasn't really come back to bite the rest at all.
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flak attack
Mar 15 2011 10:29 AM

The great tragedy is that GPA didn't pick up the war hammer after the war.

No, that would have been the worst case scenario. IF you enemy wants to tear you apart, the next best thing is to tear your ideals apart. If they can do both at the same time, they just won the lottery.

Umbrella, VE and FOK all yet to take a kicking

Considering that I've had members from two of those alliances offer to pay me reps for their participation and the other has none of the gov members at the time remaining and almost none of it's members at the time remaining,, I'm not too worried about it. I think they learned their lesson without needing to go there
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Lord Brendan
Mar 15 2011 11:14 AM

It pretty much only gets used against NPO; it hasn't really come back to bite the rest at all.


I get what you're saying but I think it's somewhat justified: NPO and Valhalla were the driving forces behind the war, the rest were not quite as complicit.

I mean, you yourself signed a declaration of support for the war. Would you think it legitimate if that were used against you?

Let us hope that never happens.


NPO tried, then alliances got tired of waiting for their turn and put a stop to it.

Umbrella, VE and FOK all yet to take a kicking


There is no uglier stain on our resume than Woodstock. Rayvon, when he returned to VE (and the game), got pissy and left in part because he found we'd drifted too far from our 'Glory Days'. If Woodstock is his idea of 'glory', then I am glad he made the determination that we were too different for him to be a part of.

Unlike many who participated there, GPA knows where we'd stand should anyone try something like that again.
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Ashoka the Great
Mar 15 2011 03:21 PM

No, that would have been the worst case scenario. IF you enemy wants to tear you apart, the next best thing is to tear your ideals apart. If they can do both at the same time, they just won the lottery.


You know, this may well be the most insightful thing I've read on this forum in a very long time.

EDIT: And yes, what Goldie says below.

No, that would have been the worst case scenario. IF you enemy wants to tear you apart, the next best thing is to tear your ideals apart. If they can do both at the same time, they just won the lottery.


I do believe you are calling Legion a jackpot win.

It pretty much only gets used against NPO; it hasn't really come back to bite the rest at all.

Alterego's comment just above your one is not about the NPO.
As I said, "not every one in the same measure", and maybe not literally "everyone" either, but it's not just the NPO.
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flak attack
Mar 15 2011 05:09 PM

You know, this may well be the most insightful thing I've read on this forum in a very long time.

It's what I do :smug:

I stand by the statements I made to Vox over two years ago. The day GPA ends it's neutrality is the day it ceases to be the GPA.

I mean, you yourself signed a declaration of support for the war. Would you think it legitimate if that were used against you?

Yes.

I supported the attack on GPA, but not the reparations agreement that ended the war. I thought it was a tad bit ludicrous at the time. Probably should have said more, but oh well. I was still pretty new to CN.

The reason I supported the attack on GPA was because of the actions GPA took against LSF. When GPA made the now-forgotten demand of 300 million in reps for allegedly stealing GPA guides, LSF was being held in eternal war by Norden Verein. NATO was trying to end the NoV-LSF war, and generally getting stonewalled. Meanwhile in the middle of all this comes Valid with a 300M demand, which just screws everything up.

Frankly I would have preferred it if NATO had just hit NoV over LSF, but that wasn't politically the Thing to Do yet. It wasn't until Slayer's hallucinations of NoV being run by guys like Heil Frech became popular that NoV came under attack.

Yes.

I supported the attack on GPA, but not the reparations agreement that ended the war. I thought it was a tad bit ludicrous at the time. Probably should have said more, but oh well. I was still pretty new to CN.

The reason I supported the attack on GPA was because of the actions GPA took against LSF. When GPA made the now-forgotten demand of 300 million in reps for allegedly stealing GPA guides, LSF was being held in eternal war by Norden Verein. NATO was trying to end the NoV-LSF war, and generally getting stonewalled. Meanwhile in the middle of all this comes Valid with a 300M demand, which just screws everything up.

Frankly I would have preferred it if NATO had just hit NoV over LSF, but that wasn't politically the Thing to Do yet. It wasn't until Slayer's hallucinations of NoV being run by guys like Heil Frech became popular that NoV came under attack.

Only 300 million?

I had thought it was more, but then again my memory is fuzzy around the time.

Only 300 million?

I had thought it was more, but then again my memory is fuzzy around the time.

It was 300 millions and 10k Tech, but the request was dropped only three days later after a GPA-LSF negotiation. The attack on the GPA also came more than two months later and there was no mention of the LSF incident in the very articulate DoW. The two events were hardly related, if at all.

As this blog entry and this comment are both strictly OOC I won't mention my "IC opinion" about the LSF incident, nor I will comment IC-ly on the attack on the GPA.

From an OOC point of view I'll instead say that the LSF incident was handled very badly by the GPA, at least initially. The GPA attitude was or looked incompatible with the GPA character and that obviously backfired.
The CB used as a justification for the attack on the GPA was debunked a lot but (to my knowledge) no irrefutable evidence ever came up about its real background. I think that Kurushio's revelations are the most consistent testimony/evidence about that.
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BastardofGod
Mar 17 2011 05:10 PM

No, that would have been the worst case scenario. IF you enemy wants to tear you apart, the next best thing is to tear your ideals apart. If they can do both at the same time, they just won the lottery.


I disagree. The war proved that no alliance that declares neutrality is any safer than a war alliance. GPA is no safer than they were when the war was declared. I do not condone attacking neutrals, but I don't approve of their hippie ways.

Perhaps if admin created a new world called hippie commune, we can ship them all there. Because they aren't really apart of this world just sort of there. GPA has certainly earned its place to be well just there. But how many neutral swedes do we need in this world?

It was 300 millions and 10k Tech, but the request was dropped only three days later after a GPA-LSF negotiation. The attack on the GPA also came more than two months later and there was no mention of the LSF incident in the very articulate DoW. The two events were hardly related, if at all.

I know there was no mention of the incident in the DoW. It was however the reason why NATO supported the Woodstock Massacre.

I know this because I was MADPed to them then ;)

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