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A Statement from Doomhouse


Ardus

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[quote name='Waterana' timestamp='1300432615' post='2668893']
Do you really think we're that stupid? We've know from the start our upper tier are heavily out numbered and out gunned. They'll get smashed, which of course is the entire idea of this 'term'. You don't seem to understand I don't care how well you can fund yourselves or keep the war going. I'm not here for my nation, I'm here for my community. Fund yourselves higher than Rockefeller and pound it all you want for long as you want. It matters nothing to me. I wasn't issuing any threats. We've been told bring our peace nations out or the war continues. How long that happens is up to you. It's your war and in your control after all.
[/quote]
"i'm here for the community"

> wont let upper tier nations fight three rounds of war in case they lose NS.

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[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1300442376' post='2668943']
"i'm here for the community"

> wont let upper tier nations fight three rounds of war in case they lose NS.
[/quote]

I said "my" community, which those nations are a part of. So yes, I do want them protected from DH's unwarranted aggression. They don't need to be destroyed in war to show their commitment to the alliance and their comrades. There are other ways they can do that, primarily after hostilities stop. The decision whether they fight or not isn't mine however as you've implied as I'm not NPO govt. Why is the total destruction of Pacifica so important to you lot? Do we really scare you that much?

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[quote name='Waterana' timestamp='1300443043' post='2668948']
I said "my" community, which those nations are a part of. So yes, I do want them protected from DH's unwarranted aggression. They don't need to be destroyed in war to show their commitment to the alliance and their comrades. There are other ways they can do that, primarily after hostilities stop. The decision whether they fight or not isn't mine however as you've implied as I'm not NPO govt. Why is the total destruction of Pacifica so important to you lot? Do we really scare you that much?
[/quote]
hostilities wont stop until they come out of peacemode, according to the OP. so i'm interested to know what other function they can fulfil.

if we wanted the total destruction of pacifica we wouldn't offer them peace after one month of war.

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[quote name='Lord Gobb' timestamp='1300440113' post='2668932']
The way I see it and think Archon intended it, is that he signed the terms not as the King of MK, but as the ceremonial Voice of Karma. Had there been no title next to him you'd have a case, but as it is nothing in the document refers to MK or Archon being our King for the simple reason of[i] him representing ~Karma~ and not MK[/i].
"But Gobb, he is the sovereign of MK, his word is the law of MK!" Yes he is, but not everything he says or does is for MK and as the King of MK, especially if he signs a document "For Karma" as The Voice of Karma.

[/quote]
So what you are saying is MK always intended going after NPO again using a second vehicle, the 1st MK used being Karma. They just made sure Archon signed the peace agreement under the Karma name and attacking NPO again was considered as far back as 2 years ago

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[quote name='Waterana' timestamp='1300443334' post='2668950']
If you don't want the total destruction of Pacifica, you won't insist on destroying the last of our alliance strength by trying to force us to feed our own people to you on a silver platter.
[/quote]
3 rounds of war = total destruction of Pacifica.

Doomhouse: We're [i]that[/i] good.

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[quote name='Waterana' timestamp='1300443043' post='2668948']
I said "my" community, which those nations are a part of. So yes, I do want them protected from DH's unwarranted aggression. They don't need to be destroyed in war to show their commitment to the alliance and their comrades. There are other ways they can do that, primarily after hostilities stop. The decision whether they fight or not isn't mine however as you've implied as I'm not NPO govt. Why is the total destruction of Pacifica so important to you lot? Do we really scare you that much?
[/quote]

Would it make more sense to you to see their tech stocks depleted, your alliance paralyzed for months or even a year while you're under terms? The easy way here is to take one month of war. We'll consider you're not a threat to us anymore and we can all go home. That's pretty much it.

If you want to keep repeating the meme "unwarranted aggression" feel free to, but that's not relevant here. We're at war with you, we're not going to let you go in a position that you can come after us quickly down the line, so you have the option of having a relatively short period of war and then all ends. We want nothing from you other than the reassurance you're not hitting us any time soon. Pacifica used to use reparations to do that, we just ask for a month of war.

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[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1300443728' post='2668956']
3 rounds of war = total destruction of Pacifica.

Doomhouse: We're [i]that[/i] good.
[/quote]

You know as well as I do our nations will be swarmed by much bigger enemies and smashed. Yes, they would deal out their own fair share of damage to their attackers on the way down, but the end result isn't in question. It isn't really an issue anyway, so I'm going to stop arguing with you about it. I really can't see our govt agreeing to this, if they haven't already said no (I honestly don't know if they have or not).

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[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1300442376' post='2668943']
"i'm here for the community"

> wont let upper tier nations fight three rounds of war in case they lose NS.
[/quote]

Fighting stupid doesnt mean their commitment to their community is any less. Thats why MK didnt attack NPO alone after all.

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300373715' post='2667713']
I'd say that pitting our 200 nations against 500+ would be more dumb than brave.
[/quote]

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[quote name='Waterana' timestamp='1300444074' post='2668958']
You know as well as I do our nations will be swarmed by much bigger enemies and smashed. Yes, they would deal out their own fair share of damage to their attackers on the way down, but the end result isn't in question. It isn't really an issue anyway, so I'm going to stop arguing with you about it. I really can't see our govt agreeing to this, if they haven't already said no (I honestly don't know if they have or not).
[/quote]
Jeez, sounds like your government needs to work on it's communications skills with the rest of their alliance.

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[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1300443728' post='2668956']
3 rounds of war = total destruction of Pacifica.

Doomhouse: We're [i]that[/i] good.
[/quote]
Problem is that everyone knows you wont do it alone. You will get your allies to come in for you or accept hundreads of ghosts. Anyway, since when is Nor and FAN part of Outhouse?

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[quote name='Jens of the desert' timestamp='1300397422' post='2668181']
Doesn't this thread just prove there are very few blocs/sides worth putting your faith in as a paragon of virtue with just intentions at heart? I came to that resolution maybe a year or two after Karma, but I'm suprised that so many of you are acting shocked by this and hadn't come to the same realisation as I, earlier...

Wake up guys.
[/quote]

to be fair they did name this tea party DOOMHOUSE.

but if you want inspiration along the lines of paragon's of virtue, Pandora's Box did just Peace Out most if not all of their opponents. And as Ardus said, the same treatment would be given to NPO if they'd fight us (significantly). Otherwise...I suspect the war will continue until all of the Hopeless Coalition's lower ranks are destroyed (OCC: delete), as that is the inevitable conclusion of small nations fighting other small nations that are incredibly well financed.

This thread would have been better served if the original post had been the only one from the side of DOOMHOUSE, I think. Just...let the detractors spout their tired one-liners and when there's no response...it doesn't make it past one or two pages.

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[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300434169' post='2668912']
Yeah, but thus far, it appears from what has been said that all of those were just going to burn with no support anyway.
[/quote]
I have never asserted that NPO was not going to enter. Rather, I argue that you had no specific knowledge regarding NPO's intentions with which to justify a preemptive strike.

As I stated [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=99990&view=findpost&p=2668574"]previously[/url], NPO was not attacked for anything that it actually did, or intended to do. Rather, it was attacked because of other alliances' perceptions regarding what it [i]did not do[/i]. Ultimately, it seems that DH considered an attack on NPO as inevitable to neutralise it as a threat and address the balance of power, and was simply looking for an excuse to do so.

Edited by Sir Humphrey
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[quote name='Lord Gobb' timestamp='1300440113' post='2668932']
The way I see it and think Archon intended it, is that he signed the terms not as the King of MK, but as the ceremonial Voice of Karma. Had there been no title next to him you'd have a case, but as it is nothing in the document refers to MK or Archon being our King for the simple reason of[i] him representing ~Karma~ and not MK[/i].
"But Gobb, he is the sovereign of MK, his word is the law of MK!" Yes he is, but not everything he says or does is for MK and as the King of MK, especially if he signs a document "For Karma" as The Voice of Karma.
[/quote]

I just want to emphasise, again, what absolute rubbish this is considering the instrumental role MK and Archon especially played in that coalition. I'm pretty sure we established a long, long, long, [i]long[/i] time ago that when an alliance leader acts he acts on behalf of his alliance, always. You can get away with that argument when it's just some member running his mouth in public, but when someone who holds the ultimate authority to speak for your alliance puts his signature on something he is doing that as the ultimate authority in his alliance, first and foremost. I'm all for bucking convention but this one actually makes sense, and I have a really hard time believing that if the situation were reversed and that were Cortath's signature you'd be nodding your head.

If this is no longer the case, though, someone ought to inform my good friends on the green team.

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[quote name='Sir Humphrey' timestamp='1300447433' post='2668978']
I have never asserted that NPO was not going to enter. Rather, I argue that you had no specific knowledge regarding NPO's intentions with which to justify a preemptive strike.

As I stated [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=99990&view=findpost&p=2668574"]previously[/url], NPO was not attacked for anything that it actually did, or intended to do. Rather, it was attacked because of other alliances' perceptions regarding what it [i]did not do[/i]. Ultimately, it seems that DH considered an attack on NPO as inevitable to neutralise it as a threat and address the balance of power, and was simply looking for an excuse to do so.
[/quote]

There was enough to go on based on what was known. NPO entering was enough of a risk to attack them given the treaty links that existed.

It's not a secret that a lot of people(not only DH) wanted to fight NPO at some point and I haven't denied it.

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[quote name='Sir Humphrey' timestamp='1300447433' post='2668978']
As I stated [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=99990&view=findpost&p=2668574"]previously[/url], NPO was not attacked for anything that it actually did. Rather, it was attacked because of other alliances' perceptions regarding what it [i]did not do[/i]. Ultimately, it seems that DH considered an attack on NPO as inevitable to neutralise it as a threat and address the balance of power, and was simply looking for an excuse to do so.
[/quote]

The attack was attempted and failed. The war that gave DH their so called excuse is over. They attacked them for nothing and now demand every member of their alliance takes a full month long beatdown after the war ends, [u]which is double the beatdown demanded and later dropped by Karma as part of[/u] [u]punishment [/u]for years of past crimes. All this because they might fight them someday.

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300448475' post='2668986']
There was enough to go on based on what was known. NPO entering was enough of a risk to attack them given the treaty links that existed.

It's not a secret that a lot of people(not only DH) wanted to fight NPO at some point and I haven't denied it.
[/quote]


I asked it before and I'll ask it again. Its entirely possible Duckroll might fight DH someday in the future. Does this mean DR or anyone not in DH is also a target for a pre-emptive attack and savage alliance wide beat down to appease their paranoia?

Edited by Alterego
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[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1300448752' post='2668992']
I asked it before and I'll ask it again. Its entirely possible Duckroll might fight DH someday in the future. Does this mean DR or anyone not in DH is also a target for a pre-emptive attack and savage alliance wide beat down to appease their paranoia?
[/quote]

Duckroll does not have the same track record as Pacifica, so, to the best of my knowledge, no.

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[quote name='SpiderJerusalem' timestamp='1300449840' post='2669001']
Duckroll does not have the same track record as Pacifica, so, to the best of my knowledge, no.
[/quote]
NPO wasnt attacked for its track record. It was attacked because it [u]might [/u]become a threat in the future and MK members were bored. Any alliance/bloc not in DH could meet the same fate when MK gets bored and/or paranoid again. Anyway what you said doesnt explain the month long beatdown they are required to take for being attacked.

Edited by Alterego
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[quote name='mmansfield68' timestamp='1300422876' post='2668747']
That just sounded bitter.

From the looks of things, NPO isn't done fighting. Their attackers, on the other hand, appear to be growing weary.

Just an observation, mind you.
[/quote]
He also failed to address the points made that countered his position, like where a nation with zero infrastructure that has been in bill lock for almost a year would magically get $3M to send out in aid. But who cares about reality when he has a soapbox built for an audience of none, right?

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[quote name='Tidy Bowl Man' timestamp='1300450562' post='2669006']
You guys sound so antsy about fighting. Never thought the NPO and their girly friends would shy away from a fight.
[/quote]
fight is 2 sided, by the looks of it this would be a beatdown pure and simple...still GOONS have the time and resources to go the extra mile so maybe waiting them out isn't the best idea

either way :popcorn:

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[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1300382636' post='2667837']
This is bull. The Cult of Justitia--which was comprised of me and one other Vox guy at the time--was founded on Red as soon as Vox (NPO's 9-month enemy with spies left) suspended its charter in what most people viewed as me pissing in NPO's Cheerios one more time while they were stuck in peace terms. In fact, while we had an open hand to Pacifica, the relationship was antagonistic at first; this is the first post in their embassy on our forum following Cortath's displeasure that I used some logs of him [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=62405"]in an OWF thread[/url]:


NPO did not owe CoJ the time of day much less diplomatic relations or apologies or invitations to come sleepover and play Twister. We are adults. And even while we did not love each other, I worked to make relations with NPO better, not the other way around, and that's the way it should have been. NPO was defeated and wrecked, and had no reason to talk to anyone other than to make sure the latest round of reps was ready.
The Cult of Justitia are not conniving double-talkers, and when I said in Vox and in CoJ that the end of Karma meant a new time to reshape things, that did not mean marginalizing NPO for all time, it meant doing what is in my power to alter Pacfica's path by engaging them actively to bring about a relationship with PAcifica that benefited each of us, and if MK and Umbrella and GOONS were sitting around waiting for NPO to come make nice when NPO had already paid their dues, then maybe they should have taken initiative like Cult of Justitia. While you sat around waiting for the right moment to pounce out of paranoia, Coj's tactics by contrast have created an inclusive, egalitarian system on Red where the Senate is shared and rotated, and NPO votes for micro-AA candidates and supports trade. With me, the friggin' host of TWiP, and NPO.

The responsibility for this war and your actions rests squarely on your shoulders. Own it.
[/quote]


Much respect to this man's diplomatic skills. /Salute!

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[quote name='Tidy Bowl Man' timestamp='1300450562' post='2669006']
You guys sound so antsy about fighting. Never thought the NPO and their girly friends would shy away from a fight.
[/quote]

we are fighting very much so, just not their upper tiers. They complaining that were not fighting to let them win, but rather fighting to inflict the most damage on them

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