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RoK is no longer SuperFriendly


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Congrats RoK, you made the right move. Good luck in the future.



EDIT: A little unnecessary CSN/Xiphy-poo bashing removed.

Edited by hewhoisgod
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[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1299798877' post='2659140']
[b]I'll echo Goose's comments here. [/b]I was asked by Ragnarok last night what I would like to see of them, and my bloc-mates concurred that it was the only possible course of action to get SF firing on the same page again and not acting divided. Your priority since being back has been Nordreich and Polaris, Kait, and I'm glad you no longer have any pretense of loyalty for us. It makes things a lot more honest.
[/quote]

[img]http://www.designpics.com/comp/1778352Comp.jpg[/img]

The only difference here is the puppet said it before the master.

Anyone with eyes could see that Rok still loved SF, but it's nice to see you guys push them out of the door because they went the extra step to defend Polaris rather than you just vocally being on their side only for it to amount to absolutely nothing.

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[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1299800323' post='2659157']
[b]Ragnarok was loyal to [u]all[/u] of their allies.[/b] The problem was that you disliked two of them and made dropping them a condition of continued friendship. Spin it however you like, but this is really no different from the nonsense you pulled with GOONS.
[/quote]
Like VE? Not only did they not support VE's CB, but they attacked their ally. It's one thing to disagree and remain neutral. Quite another to attack an ally's ally (PC). You could argue the same for VE, but VE notified RoK beforehand...and arguing the validity of the CB is something I'm sure no one wants to do anymore.

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[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1299789761' post='2658950']
Luckily, not everyone is into "calling out" their friends, so I'll just let it rest.
[/quote]

No kidding Penkala, I started reading waiting for a certain bomb to drop, I'm surprised, impressed, and confused at the same time how folks are keeping their traps shut, that never happens anymore. Good luck RoK, hope in the end this works out as well for you as you think will.

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[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1299801727' post='2659172']
Like VE? Not only did they not support VE's CB, but they attacked their ally. It's one thing to disagree and remain neutral. Quite another to attack an ally's ally (PC). You could argue the same for VE, but VE notified RoK beforehand...and arguing the validity of the CB is something I'm sure no one wants to do anymore.
[/quote]

Why can't they just agree to disagree without the peanut gallery interjecting with their opinions of who's right and who's wrong. GOD doesn't like RoK's relationship with Polar dictating their decisions. RoK doesn't like GOD's relationship with VE dictating their decisions. This is for the best. This is just a case of friends disagreeing and going their separate ways. I wish the best of luck to both RoK and SF.

o/ RoK
o/SF

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There isn't necessarily any blame to be given here, it is what it is.

The primary tenet of the SuperFriends is that every member must consider the good of the bloc as their #1 priority. That was clearly no longer Ragnarok's view of things, so it is inevitable that they end up leaving as their goals were no longer aligned with those of the bloc. It is unfortunate, but what can you do?

I wish Ragnarok all the best.

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[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1299802613' post='2659181']
I respectfully request you 'pump the brakes there'.
[/quote]

Okay, okay, loyal to their allies that didn't try to set up their other allies without even telling them beforehand.

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[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1299801727' post='2659172']
Like VE? Not only did they not support VE's CB, but they attacked their ally. It's one thing to disagree and remain neutral. Quite another to attack an ally's ally (PC). You could argue the same for VE, but VE notified RoK beforehand...and arguing the validity of the CB is something I'm sure no one wants to do anymore.
[/quote]

When did support for allies become blind following? RoK questioned their CB, as a good ally should, and made their decision based on their own rational thinking. RoK also believes that when an ally is attacked, you defend that ally. That is what they did. Polaris was attacked, and Ragnarok honored our treaty.

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[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1299802694' post='2659183']
Okay, okay, loyal to their allies that didn't try to set up their other allies without even telling them beforehand.
[/quote]

The delusion of a 'set up' has been debated ad nauseum and I don't really want to rehash any of that in this thread, but the facts remain that not only did Rok's first and second in command (i.e. the true decision-makers in the alliance) inform VE of their support for us before we went to war, but they also told their allies in SF that they were going to be supporting us, further confirming what we ourselves were told. Based on that support we went ahead with our declaration of war, which was followed by Hoo [ooc]and his wife[/ooc] leaving and joining Polar, but without first inciting the riots that led to the first cracks of their membership in SF, and subsequently their decision to continue following their ex-emperor and founder over the decisions of their current emperor, and their entry into the war.

This is a discussion about Rok leaving SF. I think it is best for both parties, as the sense of relief I saw in the leaders of SF alliances last night shows, as SF is now a more cohesive unit, while at the same time Rok can go play with Polar and Pacifica all they want, and everyone is sad, but happy.

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[quote name='KaitlinK' timestamp='1299776174' post='2658593']
RoK has had several discussions at every level of government in regard to our future FA direction. While a lot of ideas have been thrown around, we eventually decided not to make any actual decisions on anything until the war came to an end.

Ragnarok has never, and will never, cancel a treaty on command. In our entire history, we have not once canceled a treaty because someone told us to and we are not going to start now. It was not an easy decision to make and was done with a heavy heart, but given the circumstances, it was the right one.

Rather than face possible expulsion due to not dropping some of our allies, as of last night we have decided to officially withdraw from the SuperFriends bloc.

We wish the majority of those individuals nothing but the best.
[/quote]

Woot!! RoK got its sexy back

O/ RoK. Here is to nothing but the best.

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[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1299803404' post='2659196']
This is a discussion about Rok leaving SF. I think it is best for both parties, as the sense of relief I saw in the leaders of SF alliances last night shows, as SF is now a more cohesive unit, while at the same time [b]Rok can go play with Polar and Pacifica all they want[/b], and everyone is sad, but happy.
[/quote]
How does this mean they are going to play with Pacifica? Just asking...

Edited by Ryan Greenberg
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[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1299798164' post='2659129']
1) What zog said.
2) That's definitely foreign affairs, not military.
[/quote]

What? So you actually think GOD is weak militarily?

Ok. Whatever you say, pal.

[quote]No kidding Penkala, I started reading waiting for a certain bomb to drop, I'm surprised, impressed, and confused at the same time how folks are keeping their traps shut, that never happens anymore. Good luck RoK, hope in the end this works out as well for you as you think will. [/quote]

Just one bomb?

Edited by Penkala
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[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1299803616' post='2659200']
What? So you actually think GOD is weak militarily?

Ok. Whatever you say, pal.
[/quote]
That isn't what I said. I was just pointing out the flaw in your argument.

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I'm not really sure how to feel about this.

I've been in the position where a long time ally asked me to choose between them and another friend and it sucks. I feel for you. I also find SF slowly falling apart somewhat humorous although I still believe RIA is made up of a bunch of classy people. Nevertheless, it looks like you chose to go sit on the Polar side of the playground, fair enough. I guess we'll be seeing each other in the future then, if you can rebuild.

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[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1299803404' post='2659196']
The delusion of a 'set up' has been debated ad nauseum and I don't really want to rehash any of that in this thread, but [b]the facts remain[/b] that not only did Rok's first and second in command (i.e. the true decision-makers in the alliance) inform VE of their support for us before we went to war, but they also told their allies in SF that they were going to be supporting us, further confirming what we ourselves were told.[/quote]
I was the emperor of Ragnarok at that time and I have a suggestion for you. Ask Impero whether I told him RoK was going to support VE. He has the logs of our conversations. Ask him to show you where I said that. Then ask Delta and EgoFreaky whether I told SF that RoK was going to support VE. I'm sure they have the logs too. Then tell me if "the facts remain".

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It is unfortunate that RoK's decision to come to the defence of an ally against the odds also resulted in the loss of other allies. RoK has made some difficult, but honourable, decisions and I salute you for it.

More broadly, it is overly (and perhaps deliberately) simplistic for PB/DH to consider the treaty web as simply comprising two sides (i.e. for and against), without considering the individual relationships and obligations that alliances on the other "side" share with their allies.

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[quote name='Tautology' timestamp='1299805359' post='2659240']
I was the emperor of Ragnarok at that time and I have a suggestion for you. Ask Impero whether I told him RoK was going to support VE. He has the logs of our conversations. Ask him to show you where I said that. Then ask Delta and EgoFreaky whether I told SF that RoK was going to support VE. I'm sure they have the logs too. Then tell me if "the facts remain".
[/quote]

I hope you understand I've released the logs of our conversation liberally. Everyone has them. Everyone knows what the conversation was. Your whole "I never exactly said X, only inferred it" thing stopped being a viable point of contention many weeks ago. Come take a look in our embassy, you will notice your own alliance isn't even defending your point on that anymore. In fact, the whole muck up has been squarely put on your shoulders.

Might be a good idea to go back to not saying very much in public.

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