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Return of the lulz


Unko Kalaikz

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[quote name='Unko Kalaikz' timestamp='1285912903' post='2470828']
I disagree. The only reason you generally had to fear was if you decided to be part of an alliance that was antagonistic to the Hegemony. I'm not saying there was never abuse of that power by clinger-ons and smaller allies (like GOONS before... and GOONS today...), or poor decisions made by Pacifica (we're human too :P ). But the reason why so many embraced Order was because it was good sense, and the francoist policies that brought Pacifica security and prosperity spilled over to less gifted alliances who were eager to seek the light.
[/quote]

you do realize i was in Polaris long before Q showed up and was in Polaris for Q. i know what occurred. Pacifica destroyed GPA for what reason? Pacifica allowed VE to be destroyed why? so, to state that Pacifica brought security or prosperity is amusing. the opposite is indeed the truth. sure some alliances prospered thanks to Pacifica but do you see where they sit now? history tells a far different story than the crap you are trying to feed mate.

also, i do agree with Nippy. the original GOONS were far from hanger-ons. if that were true, the UjP would have been a pipe dream. MK was too young at the time to be the driving force of the UjP and only due to GOONS did it survive as long as it did.

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[quote name='Unko Kalaikz' timestamp='1285825307' post='2469442']
An exception to this could be Mushroom Kingdom, which of course benefited from former Pacifican officers who were raised in a Francoist environment.
[/quote]


Hah. I object to the idea of calling all conservative alliances Francoist (although MK is far from conservative). Many strong alliances have rejected your ridiculous doctrine in favor of something else, and remain strong. The NpO, while they were indeed raised on your system, have long ago trashed it in favor of a far more moderate system, not too dissimilar from the ones you preach against. And the MK is as far from Francoism as one could possibly get. What's more, if only chaotic alliances perish and fall (as you say), why are the continuum and all of your "moral" friends not still in control?

I'd lastly like to point out that while the discontent with GOONS grows (and some would say with good reason), MK's popularity has not been affected. As much as I'm sure you'd like this to be a domino effect to end all the alliances of Chaos, it won't be.

EDIT: Also if I recall correctly, the NPO started off backing GOONS in the 2nd GW.

Edited by snibbmaster
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[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1285956198' post='2471236']
Your analysis is interesting, and clearly took some time and effort.[/quote]

Thank you, although it was a fairly brief and spur of the moment effort.

[quote]This is a key part of the timeline and you have it disastrously wrong, if only by omission. Your "age of unprecedented prosperity and peace" for Q was in fact an era of unipolar arrogance. To hear you tell it, the lulz side was pretty ineffective and incompetent all along, so why do they suddenly become inhumanly powerful propagandists and manipulators overnight just by teaming up with 'some ambitious outcasts?'

The lulz0rz did not cause Karma, as you imply repeatedly they were never capable of it. Instead, they hitched a ride on the tsunami of blowback that Pacificas own actions had already set in motion. This is a fundamental misunderstanding caused by your refusal to admit the faults of your own Alliance.
[/quote]

You misunderstand. I never denied the presence of pride, having faced it as a former enemy of the Order; indeed that is the key weakness that the Enemy seized upon. Even Francoists are human and have human failings, after all, but we also learn and strive to put aside base emotions in favor of realism and applied materialism.

[quote=snibbmaster]Hah. I object to the idea of calling all conservative alliances Francoist (although MK is far from conservative). Many strong alliances have rejected your ridiculous doctrine in favor of something else, and remain strong. The NpO, while they were indeed raised on your system, have long ago trashed it in favor of a far more moderate system, not too dissimilar from the ones you preach against. And the MK is as far from Francoism as one could possibly get. What's more, if only chaotic alliances perish and fall (as you say), why are the continuum and all of your "moral" friends not still in control?[/quote]

I cannot speak for Polaris but they modified their alliance to fit their analysis of material conditions. Whether that analysis is correct and the specific changes that were undertaken, I am currently not familiar. As to Francoism, I believe only the New Pacific Order is truly Francoist, as few if any have both the cultural background and democratic autocracy necessary to work. "Conservative" alliances as you put it do tend to do better because they focus on the primary goal: removing their interests from the state of nature.

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[quote name='Unko Kalaikz' timestamp='1286001679' post='2472034']
I cannot speak for Polaris but they modified their alliance to fit their analysis of material conditions.[/quote]

I have no idea what you mean by that but I think Polaris dropped the 'Sell your own Mother to be #1 then subsequently claim its was right thing to do' clause. Francoism has always been !@#$%^&* to justify the means. We know it, in fact we were on the receiving end of a particularly nasty dose of it. That's why we rejected it and if you had any sense you'd keep a lid on it too if you want to have any chance of making new friends. You have no idea how much these topics hurt your alliance...

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[quote name='Grumpdogg' timestamp='1286004588' post='2472062']
I have no idea what you mean by that but I think Polaris dropped the 'Sell your own Mother to be #1 then subsequently claim its was right thing to do' clause. Francoism has always been !@#$%^&* to justify the means. We know it, in fact we were on the receiving end of a particularly nasty dose of it. That's why we rejected it and if you had any sense you'd keep a lid on it too if you want to have any chance of making new friends. You have no idea how much these topics hurt your alliance...
[/quote]
I wrote these topics with the average ruler in mind, not embittered partisans. This topic is not about Polaris, and as I am not familiar with Polaris' history I must decline to comment except regarding your misunderstanding of Francoism. Francoism is not curbstomps, or wars, or dastardly schemes, but simply an objective material analysis of the world that seeks to apply our findings to how we operate politically and otherwise.

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[quote name='Matthew Conrad' timestamp='1285953530' post='2471195']
Stagnation was readily apparent during Q's reign. The only reason that time was more exciting was because the opposing force actually had the fortitude and drive to bring about the demise of Q using more effective methods than feigning public outrage. They actually [i]did[/i] things, what a wonderful concept.
[/quote]

Oh wow, how was I going to let this go? You still think you're a hero instead of a backstabbing enabler who only bolted on Pacifica when it was sound and comfortable for you to do it. You honestly think you're the reason you brought down Pacifica? The opposing force was only good for realizing they had a chance then destroying the alliance that fed them for so long to get on top. You're not fooling anyone.

Fyi, when NPO said "do something about it" they weren't talking to FOK or you, in Sparta. For whatever reason many of you do to make it seem as if you were anti-Pacifica the entire time.

Edited by The MVP
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[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1285895904' post='2470473']
uggh.... GOONS nor \m/ truly bring much to this world other than annoying threads such as this.
[/quote]
Wrong. We never "brought" these threads. We didn't ask the OP to post this thread. We don't ask Schattenmann to make his threads. We don't ask anyone to make any threads about GOONS, and I'm sure \m/ would feel the same way about threads that are about them. The onus of responsibility for these threads lies solely on those who create them, not those who the threads are about. No one in GOONS or in \m/ is forcing anyone to write droll, half-assed pieces of trash "analyses" about how the world is going to Hell in a handbasket and that GOONS and \m/ are the ones who are causing it.

Secondly, if you don't like threads like these, [size="7"][b]don't post in them[/b][/size]. It's not that difficult.

Edit: And for those of you who think that I'm just egging Dochartaigh on, I'm not. I honestly cannot see the point of joining a discussion that one finds so abhorrently disgusting.

Edited by Choson
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[quote name='Unko Kalaikz' timestamp='1286001679' post='2472034']
You misunderstand. I never denied the presence of pride, having faced it as a former enemy of the Order; indeed that is the key weakness that the Enemy seized upon.
[/quote]

and this

[quote name='Unko Kalaikz' timestamp='1285912903' post='2470828']
But the reason why so many embraced Order was because it was good sense, and the francoist policies that brought Pacifica security and prosperity spilled over to less gifted alliances who were eager to seek the light.
[/quote]

Keep working on the pride issue.

[quote name='Quiziotle' timestamp='1285834179' post='2469562']
We defend them because, unlike most alliances in this game, they are not terrible.
[/quote]

The GOONS? Are we thinking of the same alliance? They certainly managed to fool me :huh:

[quote name='snibbmaster' timestamp='1285991317' post='2471892']I'd lastly like to point out that while the discontent with GOONS grows (and some would say with good reason), MK's popularity has not been affected.[/quote]

Well, no micro AA has decided to attack MK out of annoyance or revenge. If that's your standard of "popularity", I agree. :P

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[quote name='Unko Kalaikz' timestamp='1286050410' post='2472426']Francoism is not curbstomps, or wars, or dastardly schemes, but simply an objective material analysis of the world that seeks to apply our findings to how we operate politically and otherwise.
[/quote]
Dammit Doitzel took that quote out of his sig...

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[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1286050781' post='2472435']
Oh wow, how was I going to let this go? You still think you're a hero instead of a backstabbing enabler who only bolted on Pacifica when it was sound and comfortable for you to do it. You honestly think you're the reason you brought down Pacifica? The opposing force was only good for realizing they had a chance then destroying the alliance that fed them for so long to get on top. You're not fooling anyone.

Fyi, when NPO said "do something about it" they weren't talking to FOK or you, in Sparta. For whatever reason many of you do to make it seem as if you were anti-Pacifica the entire time.
[/quote]

First off, I have been anti-NPO for my entire existence, feel free to go through my post history. This is besides the fact I was strongly in favor of leaving Q months before Karma started, that I was not in government at the time, and that I never had any hand in forming the relationship or benefited from it, thus I have no idea how I ever "bolted" on NPO. Also, Sparta's involvement had to do with her allies in SF being threatened rather than anything that NPO said to us at the time. So please, close your mouth next time before you start making dumb assumptions. Actually, find some facts about me before your next failed character assassination.

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[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1286071921' post='2472677']
Wrong. We never "brought" these threads. We didn't ask the OP to post this thread. We don't ask Schattenmann to make his threads. We don't ask anyone to make any threads about GOONS, and I'm sure \m/ would feel the same way about threads that are about them. The onus of responsibility for these threads lies solely on those who create them, not those who the threads are about. No one in GOONS or in \m/ is forcing anyone to write droll, half-assed pieces of trash "analyses" about how the world is going to Hell in a handbasket and that GOONS and \m/ are the ones who are causing it.

Secondly, if you don't like threads like these, [size="7"][b]don't post in them[/b][/size]. It's not that difficult.

Edit: And for those of you who think that I'm just egging Dochartaigh on, I'm not. I honestly cannot see the point of joining a discussion that one finds so abhorrently disgusting.
[/quote]

while GOONS nor \m/ admittedly don't force anyone to post these threads, to assume that ya'll don't know threads like these will be written when you take the actions or post the way ya'll post is stupid. ya'll do most of what you do to get attention. if you did not want attention you would not post as you do on these forums.

so yes, the onus is partly on ya'll since these kinds of threads tend to be in response to either a post from ya'll or something about what ya'll did. as for posting in these, sometimes we all get bored.

and no, i don't think you are egging me on. i like discussing things personally.

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[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' timestamp='1286075881' post='2472710']
Dammit Doitzel took that quote out of his sig...
[/quote]

Not sure how Doitzel would be a reliable source on ideology considering...

[i]"Hate was all I knew, it built my world, it imprisoned me, taught me how to eat, how to drink, how to breathe. I thought I'd die with all my hate in my veins."[/i]

***

One other point not addressed to anyone in particular, I remember someone who had the mistaken idea that Pacifica somehow destroyed "free speech," whatever that is. I would refer anyone with such a point of view to [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/On_Free_Speech"]On Free Speech[/url] by Comrade Zhadum.

Edited by Unko Kalaikz
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Meh. It's more fun this way. Isn't this what Cybernations supposed to be? A game? For fun, for lulz? GOONS and \m/ aren't rejecting the basic tenets of cyber-civilization, they are simply returning it to it's roots, to it's purest, lulzyest and most entertaining form.

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[quote name='lordliam' timestamp='1286085329' post='2472827']
Meh. It's more fun this way. Isn't this what Cybernations supposed to be? A game? For fun, for lulz? GOONS and \m/ aren't rejecting the basic tenets of cyber-civilization, they are simply returning it to it's roots, to it's purest, lulzyest and most entertaining form.
[/quote]

Oh I agree lulz has its place in CN, that place is just destined to be at the bottom of the pile.

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[quote name='Matthew Conrad' timestamp='1286076235' post='2472713']
First off, I have been anti-NPO for my entire existence, feel free to go through my post history. This is besides the fact I was strongly in favor of leaving Q months before Karma started, that I was not in government at the time, and that I never had any hand in forming the relationship or benefited from it, thus I have no idea how I ever "bolted" on NPO. Also, Sparta's involvement had to do with her allies in SF being threatened rather than anything that NPO said to us at the time. So please, close your mouth next time before you start making dumb assumptions. Actually, find some facts about me before your next failed character assassination.
[/quote]

So you're the Bob Janova of Sparta. Congrats, you only stand for things privately yet are too afraid to stand up for what you believe in terms of actions. No, I don't accept it. If you were willing to stand by and have nations EZI listed for over a year as you sat high and mighty in Sparta, no matter how much you liked NPO, you are not a hero. You are far from it. I would have respected you more had you just stuck it out with Pacifica. Am I saying that I think you are a coward? Not quite, I'm saying that you are one. See the difference? There's a reason why you, joined MK when they were at the top. And there was a reason why you, stayed in Sparta while it was at the top and MK was suffering. I know how many people disliked Pacifica while being allied to them. Hell there were alliances who came out and admitted it, does it mean what you did was right? To you it does and you tout yourself as a hero for "doing something about it" when it was conducive for you to do it. Was it conducive for Vox to do what it did when it did? That's right, they are better than you. They did what you all were afraid to do and when you finally decided to do what they did, it had little risk and much gain in it.

Also, close my mouth? I do believe Pacifica is no longer there to fulfill your requests. You may want to ask your shiny new friends if you can. Why don't you, when that doesn't work you can then find some more shiny friends to do your bidding!

Edited by The MVP
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[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1286114211' post='2472951']
So you're the Bob Janova of Sparta. Congrats, you only stand for things privately yet are too afraid to stand up for what you believe in terms of actions. No, I don't accept it. If you were willing to stand by and have nations EZI listed for over a year as you sat high and mighty in Sparta, no matter how much you liked NPO, you are not a hero. You are far from it. I would have respected you more had you just stuck it out with Pacifica. Am I saying that I think you are a coward? Not quite, I'm saying that you are one. See the difference? There's a reason why you, joined MK when they were at the top. And there was a reason why you, stayed in Sparta while it was at the top and MK was suffering. I know how many people disliked Pacifica while being allied to them. Hell there were alliances who came out and admitted it, does it mean what you did was right? To you it does and you tout yourself as a hero for "doing something about it" when it was conducive for you to do it. Was it conducive for Vox to do what it did when it did? That's right, they are better than you. They did what you all were afraid to do and when you finally decided to do what they did, it had little risk and much gain in it.

Also, close my mouth? I do believe Pacifica is no longer there to fulfill your requests. You may want to ask your shiny new friends if you can. Why don't you, when that doesn't work you can then find some more shiny friends to do your bidding!
[/quote]

Are you [i]serious[/i]? I came out publically against NPO and her policies since the 3rd week of existence. You are just too dumb and intentionally obtuse to actually read through my entire post and actually understand what I said. No really, find anywhere in my posts where I ever claimed to be a "hero". Sorry Misr, not all of us can be such great champions of justice as you. I have never been private about my thoughts on NPO, which you would once again know if you went through my early post history like I suggested.

I joined Sparta at first because of recruitment messages, it had nothing to do with them being allied to NPO. Yes, I should have found out that MK was under terms and joined them just because! Now do you see how utterly retarded your attempted attacks at me are? Well, you can go ahead and keep trying to make points which I can easily counter with my actual history.

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[quote name='Matthew Conrad' timestamp='1286139069' post='2473415']
Are you [i]serious[/i]? I came out publically against NPO and her policies since the 3rd week of existence. You are just too dumb and intentionally obtuse to actually read through my entire post and actually understand what I said. No really, find anywhere in my posts where I ever claimed to be a "hero". Sorry Misr, not all of us can be such great champions of justice as you. I have never been private about my thoughts on NPO, which you would once again know if you went through my early post history like I suggested.

I joined Sparta at first because of recruitment messages, it had nothing to do with them being allied to NPO. Yes, I should have found out that MK was under terms and joined them just because! Now do you see how utterly retarded your attempted attacks at me are? Well, you can go ahead and keep trying to make points which I can easily counter with my actual history.
[/quote]

Easily counter? You just proved you sat by and let Pacifica do what it did and only joined MK until after it was done with terms and on top. So you're vocal about it, great! You and Bob Janova should link up and discuss things you are vehemently opposed to and enable it's action anyways. I look forward to his blog entry hope to see you there!

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[quote name='Grumpdogg' timestamp='1286004588' post='2472062']
I have no idea what you mean by that but I think Polaris dropped the 'Sell your own Mother to be #1 then subsequently claim its was right thing to do' clause. Francoism has always been !@#$%^&* to justify the means. We know it, in fact we were on the receiving end of a particularly nasty dose of it. That's why we rejected it and if you had any sense you'd keep a lid on it too if you want to have any chance of making new friends. You have no idea how much these topics hurt your alliance...
[/quote]
While some of what you say is true, this is his interpetation of what has been going on the last few years, Just like having his own interpretation of Francoism. Do I agree with him? For the most part, No. You may not either which is fine. Pacifica would be doing a disservice to it's members by telling them they can't express their view points on the OWF for the sake of making new friends or not being trolled by anti-NPO posters. As long as he's doing it respectfully then he is free to share how he feels with the rest of the planet.

I would hope topics like these aren't hurting Pacifica. Polaris is also a large alliance with many reasonably opinionated individuals. Wouldn't you hope that people didn't dimiss Polaris as a whole due to the opinions of one individual?

Edited by BlkAK47_002
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LOL hey guise didja hear? We in MK owe our success to NPO!! Never mind the political blacklist and the frequent instances of the likes of NPO-era Rebel Virginia coming to our IRC channel to try to provoke us in to delivering a CB... WE OWE IT ALL TO PACIFICA!!!

o/ o/ o/ New Pacific Order!

@OP if your idea of "order" is all of the !@#$%^&* that NPO perpetrated over the years, including the biggest tech raid in CN history in the form of the no-CB war against GPA, then I'll take the "chaos" of the lulzy alliances any day.

Edited by Detlev
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[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1286141372' post='2473464']
Easily counter? You just proved you sat by and let Pacifica do what it did and only joined MK until after it was done with terms and on top. So you're vocal about it, great! You and Bob Janova should link up and discuss things you are vehemently opposed to and enable it's action anyways. I look forward to his blog entry hope to see you there!
[/quote]

What did I sit by for? Please tell me what I "let" NPO do while I just sat around. Making vague statements isn't going to make this any easier on you. The funniest part of this was you admitting you were wrong and trying to deflect it with some sort of random similarity you think I have with Bob.

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[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1286182924' post='2474094']
I heard Mussolandia thinks NPO have fallen from the path of true Francoism.
[/quote]

Everyone accuses everyone of doing that. It's like the NPO's version of the [OOC]IC/OOC line[/OOC].

Edited by Lezrahi
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