The Phoenix Federation Response to war.

[mhawk]

First I must state the timing of this war is quite unfortunate. (ooc I will be leaving across the country for the next two weeks starting early the 29th) I do feel there is quite a bit of explaining to do in regards to the context and what posted by Athens and Rok.

I will make the following clear.

1)I had no contact with Zero Hour after roughly the 18th of July. This can be demonstrated by a very strong OOC fall out between the members of Zero Hour and myself on July 13th. This fall out I believe is the reason there is such anamosity between specifically myself and ZH. TPF nor myself had any command and control of Zero Hour, nor did we receive any intel aside from they were talking to Athens about their protectorate. I have some evidence demonstrating this, however is is quite hard to disprove a negative.

Part of the OOC incident to demonstrate ZH was not on talking terms with myself. This is when I made a thread calling out Athens regarding their planned attack on a TOOL protectorate. I had been in discussions with TOOL, however Zero Hour was ticked off because they were doing their own thing and thought we had made it look like they were giving us intel. Both Ayrrie and Yohan state they never gave us any intel nor discussed anything about their relationship with Athens. Since the signing of their protectorate no IC communication was conducted.

Session Start: Sat Jul 18 20:08:06 2009

Session Ident: Ayrrie

[20:08] Session Ident: Ayrrie (Coldfront, mhawk) (Ayrrie@)

[20:08] <Ayrrie> you just can't stand anyone telling you you're wrong, can you?

#01[20:08] <mhawk> I can

#06[20:08] * Ayrrie snorts

[20:08] <Ayrrie> Right

#01[20:08] <mhawk> unless saying I can is refusing in itself

#01[20:08] <mhawk>

[20:09] <Ayrrie> Your actions over the past week certainly do little to prove your point

#01[20:11] <mhawk> my actions over the past week have been to go to work, go on my nightly photo hike with will and cook diner for mark then get on irc, until will had his tail broke last night which I pretty much stayed with him the entire time

[20:11] <Ayrrie> Well, aside from completely dodging my point in the PM I sent you on Monday

[20:11] <Ayrrie> which, well done

[20:11] <Ayrrie> http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1700577

[20:12] <Ayrrie> this has most certainly come across to many other people as you not being able to handle your BS being called out

#01[20:12] <mhawk> that post?

[20:12] <Ayrrie> I quite enjoyed the "wtf is mhawk callign you stupid" queries I got from people after that went up

#01[20:13] <mhawk> then they really missed the point of my response

[20:13] <Ayrrie> Not their fault you can't communicate

#01[20:13] <mhawk> stupid is as stupid does is in reference to your statement my thread was stupid

#01[20:13] <mhawk> stupid is as stupid does is like handsome is as handsome does, judge by the result if something was stupid

[20:13] <Ayrrie> I didn't say your thread was stupid. I said I wasn't going to contribute to the discussion on whether it was.

#01[20:13] <mhawk> we got tool off the hook

[20:14] <Ayrrie> I do think it was stupid, and possibly endangered Yohan and DM

#01[20:14] <mhawk> i was involved with the talks

#01[20:14] <mhawk> regarding argent sparta tool and athens

#01[20:14] <mhawk> they know the only comms were from mia to me

#01[20:14] <mhawk> dm and yohan have done nothing to tell me of this

[20:15] <Ayrrie> I'm aware of that.

[20:15] <Ayrrie> I hope they've managed to convince Athens of the same.

[20:15] <Ayrrie> Anyway, that incident wasn't actually what I've wanted to talk to you about all week.

[20:20] <Ayrrie> I spent a good couple days being angry at both you and Shurukian

That incident is the one part that caused to the complete fall out between Zero Hour and myself. Of note this occurred in mid July. I left for a month in late July and did not return until late August, by which time we had already surrendered. I have had no contact with Zero Hour aside from two conversations with Ayrrie since the end of July, both of those were ooc fights.

I'm told that Athens was notified on Christmas day, which corresponds exactly with Drunk monkey trying to imply I'm a racist to Shurukian.

[3:05:22 AM] Mhawk: 01:14… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: Hey Shuru

01:16… Shurukian[TSI]: hey

01:16… Shurukian[TSI]: What's up?

01:17… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: not much

01:17… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: congrats on the charter

01:17… Shurukian[TSI]: Thank you!

01:18… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: though what was up with that video?

01:18… Shurukian[TSI]: Haha, Just having fun.

01:18… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: i mean aren't you worried about how some of our black plays might have felt?

01:18… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: players*

01:18… Shurukian[TSI]: wut?

01:19… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: the mhawk rap

01:19… Shurukian[TSI]: what about it?

01:19… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: you have an asian dude using the word !@#$%*

01:19… Shurukian[TSI]: Well, it's a song, it was funny

01:19… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: not exactly a classy move there

01:19… Shurukian[TSI]: It's not like he wrote it.

01:19… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: so mhawk is in the recording business

01:20… Shurukian[TSI]: ... No, he was trying to cheer me up during a bad time.

01:20… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: that's sad

01:20… Shurukian[TSI]: Yes, it is. And what he did was very nice, and kept me laughing.

01:21… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: so that's why he recorded that

01:21… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: neat, i'll have to stuff that one in my bag of tricks

01:21… Shurukian[TSI]: Excuse me?

01:31… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: I'm actually sober and concerned for your well being

01:31… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: in that video you did look like you were coming off a weekend of binge drinking

01:32… DrunkMonkey[ZH]: now if that is how you normally look, then I apologize for being concerned with a non-existant problem

I went to confront Ayrrie about this and it resulted in another fight. I believe this lead Zero Hour to act out pushing stuff out of context and highly exaggerating claims. There was no information or communication flowing between Zero Hour or myself/TPF.

2)During the Karma war we were hearing closely the status of our allies at NPO that the negotiations of and around mid June had failed and combined with statements from Poison Clan we had some talks regarding going into a permanent war mode. Some sections of those are taken from our brain storming session, most of which was when I was having many medical reactions to vaccines for a coming trip (which occurred later in august). In regards to some of them talking about doing x was with the qualifier “If I die, you guys get them back!”

3)

[6/20/2009 2:21:42 AM] DrunkMonkey: how are you feeling?

4)[6/20/2009 2:21:52 AM] Mhawk: high

5)[6/20/2009 2:22:03 AM] DrunkMonkey: man that has to suck

6)[6/20/2009 2:22:05 AM] Mhawk: ive never done drugs

7)[6/20/2009 2:22:11 AM] Mhawk: but typhoid

8)[6/20/2009 2:22:20 AM] DrunkMonkey: well yur not doing the good kind of drugs

9)[6/20/2009 2:22:27 AM] Mhawk: seems to be what i'd imagine gun powder and coke to be

10)[6/20/2009 2:22:33 AM] DrunkMonkey: lol

11)[6/20/2009 2:22:35 AM] DrunkMonkey: lord of war

12)[6/20/2009 2:22:44 AM] Mhawk: lol good reference catch

13)[6/20/2009 2:22:50 AM] DrunkMonkey: yep

14)[6/20/2009 2:23:00 AM] Mhawk: lol my dog

15)[6/20/2009 2:23:03 AM] Mhawk: he thinks im dying

16)[6/20/2009 2:23:07 AM] DrunkMonkey: awwww

17)[6/20/2009 2:23:09 AM] Mhawk: he wont go to bed

18)[6/20/2009 2:23:15 AM] Mhawk: just sits at attention on my bed

19)[6/20/2009 2:23:16 AM] Mhawk: looking at me

20)[6/20/2009 2:23:23 AM] DrunkMonkey: i saw the go down the mountain thing

21)[6/20/2009 2:23:28 AM] DrunkMonkey: that was funny as hell

22)[6/20/2009 2:23:34 AM] Mhawk: what?

23)[6/20/2009 2:23:48 AM] DrunkMonkey: piss into the stream and flee

24)[6/20/2009 2:23:50 AM] Mhawk: oh...

25)[6/20/2009 2:23:54 AM] DrunkMonkey: something you said to Desp

26)[6/20/2009 2:23:58 AM] Mhawk: lol my final orders

27)[6/20/2009 2:24:02 AM] DrunkMonkey: lmao

28)[6/20/2009 2:24:03 AM] Mhawk: if i didnt make it through the night

29)[6/20/2009 2:24:10 AM] DrunkMonkey: epic

3)In regards to “going after Rok”. No action was ever under took against Rok in any way. Once again we were saying if we get put into a permanent war, we would have to come up with many ideas how to keep fighting. Mostly we were talking about how to keep fighting if we all got bill locked.

So in conclusion, there was no communication between myself and Zero Hour since I left for my trip in July. The context of their “plan” was what we should do if we were put into a permanent war. By the time they had announced, OOC relations with the members of Zero Hour and myself had degraded to such an extent I have not spoken to them since that time. I believe their grudge is so significant they have chosen to start a fight, by greatly exaggerating selected quotes, from discussions at a time when TPF was at war with 10 alliances with no sign of peace. There was NO information flow between ZH and TPF after the OOC incident, and during the time ZH was talking to TPF, there was no information aside from them telling us about their protectorate talks. There has been no communication at all from some point before the war ended and now. Any other quotes are taken in the context of us discussing how we would fight an eternal war.

I ask for them to demonstrate what intel was shared and what “spying occurred” during or after the war ended, I find this especially amusing given we all stopped talking well before the war ended.

We wish for peace, but there was no diplomatic contact to our alliance prior the DoW. What has occurred is a group of alliances entered a state of war with us based on “what if” discussions during a time we believed we would be held in perma war via PC or our decision to fight until NPO gets peace, context manipulations, a series of talks between ZH and themselves – indeed most of it is ZH talking to ZH and copy pasting quotes from myself out of context, and straight up lies coming from a highly ooc disgruntled alliance.

We will fight.

We ask all our allies to support us militarily in this defense and any mediators to talk to the alliances that have attacked TPF.

This will likely be the limitation of my communications, as I will soon be traveling for the holidays.

[Desperado]

Here is/was your factbook.

Athens

IRC: #athens

Forums: Link

Color: Aqua

Government/Structure

Archons

* Archon eponymos- Londo <--- Head Honcho

* Archon basileus- Rsoxbronco1 <----- #2/Immediate Successor

Boulai

* Polemarch-Lonpeo <----- Millitary Leader

* Theorodokos- Jgoods45 <------ Foreign Affairs

* Agoranomos- Dragon <------ Trade/Finance

* Agoranomos- Anon <------ Trade Finance

* Dikast- an4rk <------ Internal Affairs

* Dikast- john <------ Internal Affairs

* Hierophant- Hobbies0310 <----- Recruitment

* Didact- Medtech <-------Academy Director

------> Not Listed: Choregos <---- Propoganda/Media

Key Advisor: lightningdelta - former Archon of athens who is close to Londo. Mainly retired but still around.

Gov't Summary: The Archons of Athens are the two most powerful people. Londo is the leader of athens, with Rsox as his second in command. The Boulai are essentially just another term for the rest of government. The Archons control the alliance and still hold a tight grip over most of the FA.

Treaties

Blocks:

* Complaints & Grievences (MADP)

* Aqua ICE (Eco)

MADP:

* CnG

MDoAP:

* Sparta

* Dark Evolution

* DiCE

* Kronos

* M*A*S*H

* Federation of Bucaneers

MDP:

* CoIN

* IAA

ODP:

* TSI

* Knights of Cydonia

* WAPA

Piat:

* TAB (Also Aqua ICE)

* Invicta

Protectorates:

* Amenthes <--- Currently a 1 man alliance.

War History

Athens:

* War of the Coalition

--> Summary: Athens enters with CnG. Surrenders to TPF, NPO, SSSW18. General guess from memory is that the reps were about 50% of the alliance's total tech at this time.

* Karma War

--> Summary: Athens fights NPO for having had to pay approximately 50% of the reps in the WoC. Ongoing

Key Aspects

Alliance as a Whole: Athens is mainly an economic alliance at this time. While CnG is a large millitary block, Athens is unable to commit wholey to millitary and the wonders/nukes reflect this trend.

Government: Londo originated from Camelot and Rsox came from HotU in the merger. These two are the most powerful and control most of Athens, especially government. Most of the other government members are rarely seen on the forums except for JGoods.

Protectorates: ATAC, DiCE, UNCE, OA, and Amenthes all began as protectorates. I have linked the Protectorate traties to use as samples. Trends are listed below.

1. NAP/PIAT with ODP is basis for treaty with protection.
   
2. Must reside at least 75% on aqua sphere. Must also vote for Athens Senate candidate.
   
3. Only DiCE has survived thus far; the rest have merged back into Athens. This trend continues from before the meger to become Athens.
   
4. Upgrade can only be reached after achieving 50 members or 500k NS.
   
5. ***Not obligated to defend Athens, only optional.****
   
6. Most important: Athens may require an advisor be present.
   

Aqua ICE: Aqua ICE contains an ODP that can be used for a war. The signatories are split from a "next war" standpoint so this treaty will most likely implode right before the war. Here is the list of FULL(ODP) Signatories.

Complaints and Grievences: This is by far the heart of Athens. Being a member of CnG reflects the alliance's commitment to hang around MK. The block is the self proclaimed "best military block in CN." This is the main grouping of Athens treaties and they remain vocal and supportive of all members. While Vanguard and GR seem to be trying to still get into the CnG swing, they are also the newest members. They provide some interesting ties to various other alliances to help solidify CnG. So far, Vanguard & GR have not been as vocal as the rest of CnG but they also do not appear to have the posting capacity that the other members show. There position has yet to be determined but will be in the coming set of treaties and cancellations over the coming months. GR seems to fit from previous treaties but Vanguard may not fit in as easily.

Closest Allies: CnG is easily Athens best ally. Of all signatories of CnG, MK is the closest. The MDoAP with FoB reflects the commitment to MK. Sparta is also the closest ally that is not of MADP. DiCE is also fairly close after being raised from an Athens protectorate to MDoAP.

Noted Enemies: NPO, SSSW18, TPF - from WoC. The main group that Athens has spats with appear to be NPO and those directly tied or that support any NPO actions. The extreme hatred for NPO has them focusing on the Karma war and on nothing else.

Other Treaties of Interest: Kronos brings an interesting connection back to Citadel from the founding of Kronos by former Gramlins. DE would be another black alliance that could enact NOIR; they appear to be a close Sparta ally and the two have thus found Athens as allies. Nothing below MDP appears to hold any real value and most likely will not survive the long haul.

Final Notes: Sparta is an interesting tie to Athens. With this tie, as well as a few others for Sparta, it appears Sparta will be dragged onto the SF/CnG side. Athens appears to rely heavily on CnG for all matters. The only other alliance that they show a significant amount of trust is Sparta. Athens will most likely follow MK in whatever setup they plan. GGA may soon treaty Athens after the recent #%$fest that was had on the OWF. This will not really affect anything as it is the GGA.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Desperado

[The AUT]

Fully expected, Zero Hour.

Your alliance is full of a bunch of nutcases, and you're lucky, I'm being diplomatic.

OOC: DrunkMonkey - you have drunk queried both Shurukian and I and have said some very hurtful things that I will not divulge. This will not be forgotten, and this will be payed back in full. I don't care who has your back, enough is enough.

Also, Skyyberry, get out of peace mode, honey.

Edited December 27, 2009 by The AUT

[Anu Drake]

mhawk, was hoping that you were not a part of something so ridiculous. Athens, Ragnarok and GOD seem to have been played by personal grudges by zero hour. Stick in there TPF, I hope everyone can see the evidence/controversy problems in this situation and maybe take a step back.

[Necromancer V4L]

<mhawk> i was involved

THE TRUTH IS OUT

[Nobody Expects]

Hmm a very spurious looking CB now looks like it was No CB at all..........good work Rok, Athens et al.....

[Brenann]

Hang in there TPF. I hope to see your allies in support of you soon.

[2burnt2eat]

So, those logs in RoK's DoW are from the Karma War, given by Zero Hour because they were sore with you?

[shahenshah]

Act of War during war is now liable to be a CB six months later?, the light of new world shines upon us.

No attempts at all for diplomacy? They just needed an excuse, not a CB or they'd talk it out first.

Edited December 27, 2009 by shahenshah

[Desperado]

So, those logs in RoK's DoW are from the Karma War, given by Zero Hour because they were sore with you?

Just to throw this out there - most of the Rok CB logs are from private convo's that the ZH people had on their own between themselves. I didn't know that 2 members in the same alliance talking about what they were gonna try and do on their own is a CB...

[Doitzel]

[00:25] <mhawk> ok lets talk about the dozens of spies sent to tpf athens

I would've done the same in your position, of course, but the hypocrisy is too much. Athens characteristically jumped the gun on this one, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[The AUT]

[00:25] <mhawk> ok lets talk about the dozens of spies sent to tpf athens

I would've done the same in your position, of course, but the hypocrisy is too much. Athens characteristically jumped the gun on this one, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

By it not making a shred of difference and a side getting rolled based on shoddy evidence.

Sound familiar, Doitz? Still in Denial?

[Doitzel]

Act of War during war is now liable to be a CB since months later, the new world

It's still an improvement over the old world where the war simply never ended (unless one side was defeated by a third party) -- at least TPF got a break.

[Believland]

interesting turn of events. I do wish to see you get rolled again, but not with a phony casus belli. I hope you can get some fair peace terms

[Necromancer V4L]

No; you are all wrong. None of this matters, what matters is that TPF went to extreme measures in an attempt to spy on Athens and RoK, and even though they failed, they are still guilty of the crime.

[Sup4l33t3ki11a]

Best of luck TPF, I hope your allies support you on this

[CylonNL]

We ask all our allies to support us militarily in this defense and any mediators to talk to the alliances that have attacked TPF.

This is what I've been waiting for.

Edit: Thanks for making my Christmas break interesting mHawk

Edited December 27, 2009 by CylonNL

[Hiro Nakara]

Declaring with 6 month old CB's priceless.

Mhawk you know where we stand

[King Wally]

sorry TPF you cant just fob this away that easy

[Alterego]

It took a while but the shift by Karma is complete.

[President S O]

Yes, all round bad show by Athens, RoK and the others that followed.

o/ TPF

[Zizka]

It's still an improvement over the old world where the war simply never ended (unless one side was defeated by a third party) -- at least TPF got a break.

FAN got a "break" as well.

[2burnt2eat]

No; you are all wrong. None of this matters, what matters is that TPF went to extreme measures in an attempt to spy on Athens and RoK, and even though they failed, they are still guilty of the crime.

From a war they were in? That's how it seems from what I've gathered from these threads.

If that's the case, the Karma War is over, and the prosecution on that is a bit late, and should've been left dead at peace.

[Doitzel]

interesting turn of events. I do wish to see you get rolled again, but not with a phony casus belli. I hope you can get some fair peace terms

[00:23] <mhawk> do you feel you have earned a white peace?

[00:28] <mhawk> I'm asking why hit pieces, ridicule, spying, were started by an offensive war you started, warrant white peace

Well you heard the man! The one thing this Phoenix does not hunger for is white peace.

[Zulchep]

From a war they were in? That's how it seems from what I've gathered from these threads.

If that's the case, the Karma War is over, and the prosecution on that is a bit late, and should've been left dead at peace.

Sorry, no. TPF never engaged against Athens.