SpoiL Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Calling it negotiations is really just a courtesy when the enemy has its foot on your throat. The only leeway you have is not signing the terms because they might be too much to handle. Screw your principle. You lost. Pay your reparations to the victor, and come back for blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBallMan Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I took a look at PC's declaration of war. They cited this:Article 3: Cancellation If either party breaks the pact, it is considered null and void. You're saying its PC's fault that you agreed to a horribly worded treaty? They took advantage of your wording. This is what all this !@#$%^&* about "e-lawyering" is about? You can try to cover your behinds all you want, but its not going to get you anywhere. Think before you put the pen to paper. Only took three pages for the first e-lawyer to show up to play that tune. I am impressed. I'd rather burn in eternal nuclear holocaust than reward an alliance that stands behind we only took "took advantage of your wording". You may be able to sleep with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Only took three pages for the first e-lawyer to show up to play that tune. I am impressed. I'd rather burn in eternal nuclear holocaust than reward an alliance that stands behind we only took "took advantage of your wording". You may be able to sleep with that. Given it's extremely likely you intended to take advantage of the same loophole down the road I don't see it as such a bad thing. You got beat at your own game, deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwish959 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 You know what... i might not like TPF, but you got a point there. I think i'd rather be in perpetual war than pay money to those i deem not honourable, too. If you hate TPF so much, why did you stay in the Continuum with them for so long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solanine Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Only took three pages for the first e-lawyer to show up to play that tune. I am impressed. I'd rather burn in eternal nuclear holocaust than reward an alliance that stands behind we only took "took advantage of your wording". You may be able to sleep with that. So what? It would have been fine if they waited a day before attacking you? That's stupid and you know it. The only time someone would cancel a Non Aggression Pact is when they want to attack. Why would they want you to have that extra day to prepare? Its a war tactic, deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philp110 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I can understand your reasons, I suppose. But I don't see PC dropping their demands - I don't see them caring all that much if you feel the "e-lawyered" their way into the war. Or caring if you feel they are dishonorable. But good luck with all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBallMan Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 So what? It would have been fine if they waited a day before attacking you? That's stupid and you know it. The only time someone would cancel a Non Aggression Pact is when they want to attack. Why would they want you to have that extra day to prepare? Its a war tactic, deal with it. Keep saying it. Eventually it will make it true. Especially if you click your heels together 3 times and say the magic words. To see MK of all people support dishonor, well, that is just a special birthday treat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Only took three pages for the first e-lawyer to show up to play that tune. I am impressed. I'd rather burn in eternal nuclear holocaust than reward an alliance that stands behind we only took "took advantage of your wording". You may be able to sleep with that. Then word your treaties better. Don't blame everyone else when something like this comes back to bite you. If I worded my treaties poorly and someone used it to their advantage I have no one to blame but myself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7p4mioawIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) Keep saying it. Eventually it will make it true. Especially if you click your heels together 3 times and say the magic words. To see MK of all people support dishonor, well, that is just a special birthday treat. It's not dishonor if they followed the wording of the treaty, which by your own admission, they did. Edited July 26, 2009 by Harry Tuttle Inappropriate language Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyria Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) Only took three pages for the first e-lawyer to show up to play that tune. I am impressed. I'd rather burn in eternal nuclear holocaust than reward an alliance that stands behind we only took "took advantage of your wording". You may be able to sleep with that. The funny thing is you didn't address my point. You sign a treaty, you should probably read what it says and know the consequences of every clause. Why did you not do so? I can't see how you blame PC for this. They didn't maneuver. They had a treaty that said "if you break this, it is null and void". They followed the treaty, really. Why is this their fault and not yours? Edited July 25, 2009 by El Pilchinator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 FAN at least admitted to being the bad guy. All we have here is TPF saying "WE AREN'T THE SAME TPF THAT WE WERE!!!!!"FAN manned up to their evil. TPF is trying to outright deny it. FAN = Rhinoceros who is going to flatten your $@! treaties or not. TPF is like the annoying guy who played the sidekick in the old bugs bunny cartoons....only their to mooch off the successes of bigger pals and then when the big guy goes down try to pretend they really didn't do anything or that they have changed. The TPF that took part in these old actions people still complain about is now called Poison Clan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solanine Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Keep saying it. Eventually it will make it true. Especially if you click your heels together 3 times and say the magic words. To see MK of all people support dishonor, well, that is just a special birthday treat. I don't call that dishonor. Something do consider dishonorable, though, is complaining about an alliance attacking before actually dropping the treaty- even though they've done it in the past. (See: flak attack's post) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBallMan Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 It's not dishonor if they followed the wording of the treaty, which by your own admission, they did. Dick move or not, its still the way the treaty was worded. I need not say any more on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 The TPF that took part in these old actions people still complain about is now called Poison Clan. And I think they are a crap alliance. You guys kept the history, the name, the membership etc......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I need not say any more on this. It was a dick move. You guys want to extort us over a dick move, be our guest. There is no "you guys" with me. I am not part of MK or Karma anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trout Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 If you hate TPF so much, why did you stay in the Continuum with them for so long? It was probably either be stuck with them for so long or get rolled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBallMan Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 There is no "you guys" with me. I am not part of MK or Karma anymore. My most humble of sincere apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I need not say any more on this. It was a dick move. You guys want to extort us over a dick move, be our guest. It's not extortion. PC has lost what, 60% of their NS this war? They have as much right to reps as any alliance out there, more than many others whom are going to receive more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 The TPF that took part in these old actions people still complain about is now called Poison Clan. Wow, that's the 2nd time you guys have said that and it's flat out wrong. You're cute though, to try and say that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 My most humble of sincere apologies. TO WAR! Just kidding No harm no foul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodivine Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 OBM with regards to your treaty partners getting peace that is really all up to TPF. The alliances fighting Avalon have been seeking peace for some time now, but until you get over the petty reasons to not accept peace or terms then your allies keep staying at a state of war because you haven't peaced out. Terms have been agreed with for Avalon and are ready but 2 things need to happen 1. TPF peace 2. We get sigs from Avalon So TPF get off your high horse and come to terms and lets move on. Nothing I hate more than having to be at war with an alliance that wants to fight from hippy. So get with the terms so the members of Avalon and your other treaty partners can get back to doing their thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrototyoeRuler Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I need not say any more on this. It was a dick move. You guys want to extort us over a dick move, be our guest. Let's be honest..If TPF found and used the loop hole like it was word too we would see a bunch of trolls from TPF claiming it is no big deal, you found the loop hole and for PC to "deal with it". So, take your own advice and maybe next time word your treaties right. Here's to Poison Clan hope you guys double the reparations and rub it in TPF face a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzelger Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I have a lot of personal biases here, so it's hard for me to look at this situation objectively. On the one hand I agree with you that the situation with the NAP was not optimal, regardless of whether the letter of the treaty was actually obeyed. I can understand not wanting to pay them anything. I definitely agree that 20k tech to Poison Clan is excessive in light of the circumstances and relative to what other alliances are getting. On the other hand, your alliance is dying for pride. You have members who find it dishonorable to leave, even if they've formally been released. You've got your hand in a monkey trap and by refusing to relax your fist you're giving PC a far greater "reward" than 20k tech. You still have loyal and decent allies, which is more than many of the surrendered can say. You have traded your nation strength for a reasonable sum of political capital. If you swallow your pride and look to the long term perhaps some day you can collect what was taken from you. If you stand your ground all you do is get buried. I'm also curious about the line that you went into this "holding your nose," as the logs I've seen show mhawk playing the bully for the hegemony as you guys tried to build a CB to push this war into being. In any case, I wish you luck. Your stand is foolish but respectable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatmagnus Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) It wasn't e-lawyering. I do indeed seem to recall that TPF admitted they added the clause to the treaty so they could use it for the same purpose. Edited July 25, 2009 by greatmagnus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 29,000 tech to MK and MK gives 20,000 to PC. I suggested it in the other thread. MK said no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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