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#9121 Centurius

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 11:51 AM

Athenian federation tourism board, come see our protests and bombed out buildings. (Not responsible for loss of life or limbs)

Like we would want dirty foreigners inside our borders touching our stuff :P



#9122 Evangeline Anovilis

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 09:40 PM

I'll respond to all diplomacy within the next 12-18 hours. So, no worries.

 

Except MGL. I respond to him on monday, for reasons known to him already.



#9123 Evangeline Anovilis

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 04:02 AM

So, what is a battleship? What is a cruiser? What is a destroyer?

 

I'm not so unknowledgeable to not know the basics of it, but I still ask, due to something like this. Post might be already a bit older, but it still is more than relevant, given these ships, for all I know, are still in use. And quite frankly, I'm not really all too willing to have a bit of a bad consciousness to reclassify Akizuki destroyers as frigates due to their underwhelming capabilities for a destroyer, while in the American Commonwealth it would be passing as a corvette even.

 

I do think that some of these ships are by common sense rule placed in the wrong class and while I in general find some of MGLs military projects to be quite ambigious in terms of how these capabilities are justified, in this case I find it's gotten way out of hand.

 

Thus, I would like to know what others think on the matter, whether this can see some moderation or is it that we can now build destroyers that have twice the amount of VLS of a Ticonderoga-class cruiser? Or should I just file an actual complaint with the GM court, on whether these designs are within reason or not?

 

I don't want to introduce hard caps on what a class can field, mostly because just like in the treaty era, we'd see loads of ships that will conform exactly to these maximum limits, but I don't like to be completely outclassed, just because I actually interprete technology and common sense more conservatively and don't go with weapon systems that only exist because of soft limits and a degree of lolteching.



#9124 Triyun

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 03:21 PM

I think first of all we have to acknowledge that the definitions of the vessels is in flux and changing.  An aegis destroyer meets the definitions of a battleship in Mahan's day as does an aegis cruiser.  However it can also perform cruiser and destroyer roles.  

 

I think that really there's no point in trying short of giving someone dictatorial powers to simply make definitions, of course most people would object because it wouldn't fit with their ill informed opinions, based on a very limited case and lack of exposure to the informed community which discusses such matters.  That's just a simple fact.

 

So either don't worry about it or radical solution are the two options.



#9125 KaiserMelech Mikhail

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 06:37 PM

I go for the not worrying about it route. Whatever the country who owns it calls it is what it counts as. If it's something you've made up, see who it most closely resembles in the real lifes and go for that.

#9126 TheShammySocialist

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 07:19 PM

While I'm really not opposed to people sometimes exaggerating ship sizes and blurring class lines, because I'm of the opinion that as long as its somewhat in line with the criteria of that supposed ship, I will stretch the class limits sometimes. This is due to the fact that some navies will build larger (or smaller) vessels of a certain class.

 

I think that Evangeline is more concern with absurdities in armament capabilities, and "super ships", more than anything here. That being said, I'm on the fence about such absurdities, considering we used to recognize Shadowsage maintaining a fleet of something-like kilometer long ships in some instances. But I digress, there has been much discussion on the limits of armaments on ships before, but I do not believe there has been any definitive rules condoning one way or another.



#9127 Mogar

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 12:03 AM

Unless you're going to also rule against MOBs, I don't really think it makes any sense to rule against any other made up ships.



#9128 Evangeline Anovilis

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 01:42 AM

I think first of all we have to acknowledge that the definitions of the vessels is in flux and changing.  An aegis destroyer meets the definitions of a battleship in Mahan's day as does an aegis cruiser.  However it can also perform cruiser and destroyer roles.  

 

I think that really there's no point in trying short of giving someone dictatorial powers to simply make definitions, of course most people would object because it wouldn't fit with their ill informed opinions, based on a very limited case and lack of exposure to the informed community which discusses such matters.  That's just a simple fact.

 

So either don't worry about it or radical solution are the two options.

Well, if one dismisses all other solutions other than hard caps and free reign for all, then well, nothing can be done about it, I guess. Normally, such things are kind of regulated under common sense, but I guess common sense is not so common as some would wish it were, or some people don't like the idea that I can't take a 256 VLS ship and call it a destroyer, when it's more in line with a Kirov.

 

I go for the not worrying about it route. Whatever the country who owns it calls it is what it counts as. If it's something you've made up, see who it most closely resembles in the real lifes and go for that.

I would think that is what most people would do, but it seems to not be the case here.

 

While I'm really not opposed to people sometimes exaggerating ship sizes and blurring class lines, because I'm of the opinion that as long as its somewhat in line with the criteria of that supposed ship, I will stretch the class limits sometimes. This is due to the fact that some navies will build larger (or smaller) vessels of a certain class.

 

I think that Evangeline is more concern with absurdities in armament capabilities, and "super ships", more than anything here. That being said, I'm on the fence about such absurdities, considering we used to recognize Shadowsage maintaining a fleet of something-like kilometer long ships in some instances. But I digress, there has been much discussion on the limits of armaments on ships before, but I do not believe there has been any definitive rules condoning one way or another.

There are no definitive rules on ships, but I would think we can do better at keeping it reasonable. Otherwise, if people cannot stay reasonable, I guess the arms race is on.

 

Unless you're going to also rule against MOBs, I don't really think it makes any sense to rule against any other made up ships.

Even MOBs have some definition. You can't build a multi-square-kilometre MOB with tons of defensive armament, an airstrip for strategic bombers and a speed of 40 knots. Because apart from being completely laughable, it's not what a MOB would ever achieve, even b the standards of 2024.



#9129 Evangeline Anovilis

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 10:28 PM

Note to self: Polls are due today...






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