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How soon we peace this out isn't my decision alone, although I'll see how the rest of the Gov (and FTW) feels about white peace if that's what they want and try getting The Chief an answer on that as soon as I'm able to get a clear consensus on how everyone involved in that decision feels about it.

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1 hour ago, pjk11 said:

I do love the bandwagonning of emotion against PoSSE though.  Mob mentality is always fun and exciting with limited facts to back them up.

Thank you for finally admitting that the facts are there.........much appreciated.  Makes it difficult to argue against them....huh?

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5 minutes ago, SaintScott said:

Thank you for finally admitting that the facts are there.........much appreciated.  Makes it difficult to argue against them....huh?


Hmmmm, it appears that you have misread my statement.

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You Socialists enjoy creating narratives out of whole cloth but this idea that others are supposed to read your imagination to get them is particularly cute.

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10 hours ago, Noctis Lucis Caelum said:

How soon we peace this out isn't my decision alone, although I'll see how the rest of the Gov (and FTW) feels about white peace if that's what they want and try getting The Chief an answer on that as soon as I'm able to get a clear consensus on how everyone involved in that decision feels about it.

 

So you are considering white peace ? What about the 500 million and the 5000 tech you were trying to extort out of WAPA is that getting waved aside is it ? An admission of guilt if I ever heard one.

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9 hours ago, pjk11 said:

I do love the bandwagonning of emotion against PoSSE though.  Mob mentality is always fun and exciting with limited facts to back them up.

 

Did a member of your Government attack one of WAPAs nations?  If yes, did you expel the member of Government and let WAPA know that it was act of single rogue and not of POSSE itself?  If no to the second then your alliance is completely in the wrong.  That is all the facts that anybody needs.  This is not a mob mentality nor rocket science.  if this was the Planet Bob of a few years ago your alliance would be attacked by multiple other alliances at this point, all declaring it just a raid.   When doing something stupid got you rolled that was mob mentality.  All that happens now is you just look bad. And frankly you are not helping. 

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So a government member of PoSSE declares war on a member of WAPA and PoSSE cries that a week or so later WAPA declares only on the government member in retaliation and PoSSE then escalates (defending the idiot government member who declared war on an alliance) so WAPA then officially declares war.

 

 

 

Any attack by a member of alliance government against another alliance is deemed an declaration of war. 

 

Its ridiculous that WAPA should of been expected to use diplomacy first when they were the one to be attacked first, PoSSE should of sacked their MoD and been sincerely apologising for the mistake.

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8 hours ago, pjk11 said:


Hmmmm, it appears that you have misread my statement.

Sorry I'll try and remove the ambiguity for you. Q -  In simple terms did your MOD raid a WAPA nation?    A - Yes or No  -   please make the appropriate selection.     

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6 minutes ago, SaintScott said:

Sorry I'll try and remove the ambiguity for you. Q -  In simple terms did your MOD raid a WAPA nation?    A - Yes or No  -   please make the appropriate selection.     

Be prepared for a sarcastic paragraph in response and how they are being bullied. 

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16 minutes ago, SaintScott said:

Sorry I'll try and remove the ambiguity for you. Q -  In simple terms did your MOD raid a WAPA nation?    A - Yes or No  -   please make the appropriate selection.     

My SAT was easier than these questions. 

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There’s merit perhaps to the belief that a government member should be punished for raiding an alliance but realistically only if the government member’s alliance doesn’t condone the action (on philosophical grounds and/or because it violates the charter or a rule of some sort). POSSE clearly condones the raid which is why I presume BMTH hasn’t been booted.

 

Putting myself in POSSE’s shoes here, I don’t personally object to the raiding of an alliance the size of WAPA (at least in terms of member count). Their potential treaty (assuming the ODP with CCC is active), however, would be a major turn-off. To each his own.

 

Criticizing WAPA for ignoring diplomacy is baffling given you raided them. Demanding so much as a cent from them at any point is extortion plain and simple (did that really happen?). That, pjk11, is why there is this public outcry (or emotional bandwagoning as you put it).

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31 minutes ago, SirWilliam said:

There’s merit perhaps to the belief that a government member should be punished for raiding an alliance but realistically only if the government member’s alliance doesn’t condone the action (on philosophical grounds and/or because it violates the charter or a rule of some sort). POSSE clearly condones the raid which is why I presume BMTH hasn’t been booted.

 

Putting myself in POSSE’s shoes here, I don’t personally object to the raiding of an alliance the size of WAPA (at least in terms of member count). Their potential treaty (assuming the ODP with CCC is active), however, would be a major turn-off. To each his own.

 

Criticizing WAPA for ignoring diplomacy is baffling given you raided them. Demanding so much as a cent from them at any point is extortion plain and simple (did that really happen?). That, pjk11, is why there is this public outcry (or emotional bandwagoning as you put it).

Thanks Sir William.....the extortion element was going to be my 2nd simple question if pjk11 got passed the first one.  I just wanted to give him the opportunity to respond.

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Ultimately "raiding" is just launching wars with the intention of making a tangible profit; tech, land, xp, money, or casualties. Who's considered an acceptable target for raiding is up to the individual alliance and raider. In some cases this decision may be based upon respect for the sovereignty of other alliances, however in others the raider can afford not to care about such niceties and will raid whoever they think they can get away with without taking damage, so the decision whether or not to raid is mere risk vs reward.

 

Alonso was engaged in high risk raiding against those who he judged wouldn't provide any real opposition, he did very well for a while, acquiring a lot of land, although a few people did fight back and some did quite significant damage (which undoubtable contributed to his small warchest) I know because I kept a close eye on his warscreens over the last few months. I also knew that eventually (assuming he continued) he would make a poor judgement and he would get his nation (and possibly the rest of PoSSE) beaten up for it. This is that; WAPA was obviously not a smart AA to raid in hindsight.

 

Some of us would like to bring ethics in to this, but more important are the facts:

 

  1. Alonso engaged in high risk raiding against aligned nations.
  2. He inevitably made a misjudgement resulting in him being countered.
  3. He then decides to stop logging in to avoid the consequences of his actions.
  4. PoSSE then decides to defend their sociopathic government member who is happy for them to all to face the consequences of his wars, but has little enough attachment to dodge them himself.

That's it.

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1 hour ago, Blackatron said:

Ultimately "raiding" is just launching wars with the intention of making a tangible profit; tech, land, xp, money, or casualties. Who's considered an acceptable target for raiding is up to the individual alliance and raider. In some cases this decision may be based upon respect for the sovereignty of other alliances, however in others the raider can afford not to care about such niceties and will raid whoever they think they can get away with without taking damage, so the decision whether or not to raid is mere risk vs reward.

 

Alonso was engaged in high risk raiding against those who he judged wouldn't provide any real opposition, he did very well for a while, acquiring a lot of land, although a few people did fight back and some did quite significant damage (which undoubtable contributed to his small warchest) I know because I kept a close eye on his warscreens over the last few months. I also knew that eventually (assuming he continued) he would make a poor judgement and he would get his nation (and possibly the rest of PoSSE) beaten up for it. This is that; WAPA was obviously not a smart AA to raid in hindsight.

 

Some of us would like to bring ethics in to this, but more important are the facts:

 

  1. Alonso engaged in high risk raiding against aligned nations.
  2. He inevitably made a misjudgement resulting in him being countered.
  3. He then decides to stop logging in to avoid the consequences of his actions.
  4. PoSSE then decides to defend their sociopathic government member who is happy for them to all to face the consequences of his wars, but has little enough attachment to dodge them himself.

That's it.

 

Well looks like I don't have to write an essay now.

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Well this has been a fun little thread. It seems if FTW had not attacked it would've never been posted so you're all welcome for that. :P

About the reparations. It seems I should have done more investigating of the situation before taking the actions I did. At the time I thought the last raid by Alonso was longer ago and less serious. That coupled with WAPA's lack of diplomatic effort made the reparations seem more reasonable in my eyes. Certainly WAPA didn't seem exactly on 'the defensive' when there was no records of attacks by PoSSE against WAPA on the war screens. And while it is an alliance's own responsiblity to investigate before taking action WAPA could have made it much easier by posting a DoW detailing their CB. Just sayin'.


Anyway with the new information I have a more white peace does seem in order. Hopefully that can be worked out in the not too distant future.


 

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5 minutes ago, Canik said:

Well this has been a fun little thread. It seems if FTW had not attacked it would've never been posted so you're all welcome for that. :P

About the reparations. It seems I should have done more investigating of the situation before taking the actions I did. At the time I thought the last raid by Alonso was longer ago and less serious. That coupled with WAPA's lack of diplomatic effort made the reparations seem more reasonable in my eyes. Certainly WAPA didn't seem exactly on 'the defensive' when there was no records of attacks by PoSSE against WAPA on the war screens. And while it is an alliance's own responsiblity to investigate before taking action WAPA could have made it much easier by posting a DoW detailing their CB. Just sayin'.


Anyway with the new information I have a more white peace does seem in order. Hopefully that can be worked out in the not too distant future.


 

 

Fair and reasonable stance IMO.

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Most alliances are incredibly inactive, I was able to raid with large success in the lower tier against aligned nations; Knights of Ni, MI6, The Chaos Brotherhood, Shangri La, United Equestria, LoSS, InterComradary Pact, United Purple Nations, RnR, The Imperial Remnant, Menotah, Argent, Armpit Platoon and others, none of these resulted in much of a fight or any response from other members of their alliances. All of this was with only a small number of wonders and limited activity. Additionally I myself was attacked unprovoked whilst on the Praetorian Guard AA (Protected by Non Grata) and do not believe I would have been able to get any assistance to deal with my attacker.

 

The only exception to this was Guru Order, I attacked one of their members, who fought back and moved to Fark. A government member of Fark then proceeded to message me are request I cease attacks.

 

My point with this short tale is that it is entirely possible to exploit inept and inactive alliances to raid successfully if a player is careful. Mr. Quixano's problem, as stated by several above, was that he was impatient and repeatedly attacked an alliance which was active enough to be a threat.

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57 minutes ago, Idiotman said:

Most alliances are incredibly inactive, I was able to raid with large success in the lower tier against aligned nations; Knights of Ni, MI6, The Chaos Brotherhood, Shangri La, United Equestria, LoSS, InterComradary Pact, United Purple Nations, RnR, The Imperial Remnant, Menotah, Argent, Armpit Platoon and others, none of these resulted in much of a fight or any response from other members of their alliances. All of this was with only a small number of wonders and limited activity. Additionally I myself was attacked unprovoked whilst on the Praetorian Guard AA (Protected by Non Grata) and do not believe I would have been able to get any assistance to deal with my attacker.

 

The only exception to this was Guru Order, I attacked one of their members, who fought back and moved to Fark. A government member of Fark then proceeded to message me are request I cease attacks.

 

My point with this short tale is that it is entirely possible to exploit inept and inactive alliances to raid successfully if a player is careful. Mr. Quixano's problem, as stated by several above, was that he was impatient and repeatedly attacked an alliance which was active enough to be a threat.

If I wasn't friends with your alliance leader and if you weren't protected by NG, I would've attacked you for your raid on Intercomradary Pact. Just saying

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