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9 minutes ago, Alexio15 said:

Yes and it also takes a special kind of person to jump into the **** storm that you guys have. Good job but do mind me if I don't take your glowing recommendation as a judge of character.

 

As of this notice Atlas will also be protecting TMG.

TMG will do well with Atlas I'm sure. 

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Classy move, but I would expect nothing less from Kashmir and SLAP.

 

I can't remember anyone else signing except for SNX and Umbrella who really shouldn't be associated with class :/

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3 hours ago, Lucius Optimus said:

I'm not saying that TMG getting rolled is preferable to peace. But this "deal" is nothing of the kind. There are sigs from nine alliances on here NINE! None of which were attacked by TMG,  It has lopsided written all over it. No doubt TMG signed with a nuclear pistol pointed at their head. (Even though in peace mode)

Lucius you have raised some real and valid concerns about the treaty. Point about FoC who went peace within hours after declarations due Pres Hardin threats is esp true.

 

I think these alliances all 9 nine of them were trying their best to make something good of this war, a war in which a 11 nation micro is fighting all 9 of these alliances and still out damaging them, an embarrassment. 
If bullying a weak and tiny micro at gun point makes them feel good then I am all for it (I am not a sadist). Everybody wins - TMG gets their peace, VG and their allies saves their face atleast partially.  

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2 minutes ago, Roal36 said:

Lucius you have raised some real and valid concerns about the treaty. Point about FoC who went peace within hours after declarations due Pres Hardin threats is esp true.

 

I think these alliances all 9 nine of them were trying their best to make something good of this war, a war in which a 11 nation micro is fighting all 9 of these alliances and still out damaging them, an embarrassment. 
If bullying a weak and tiny micro at gun point makes them feel good then I am all for it (I am not a sadist). Everybody wins - TMG gets their peace, VG and their allies saves their face atleast partially.  

Save face there's no need to save face you've all been stupid now it's time to pay. You cant attack people and alliances and not expect repurcussions to follow. You can brag about attacking and causing slightly more damage then us. But end of the day the alliance that's left a smoldering crater with nothing but a ruined butt hole will be mu.

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"But end of the day the alliance that's left a smoldering crater with nothing but a ruined butt hole will be mu."

 

That may be so but we will be smiling with the satisfaction of 'smoldering' with honor not as spineless pixel hugging cowards. I can guarantee Bob one thing, you may PZI the Hombre but you will never ever see him surrender. Some may call that stupid and that is OK because I would never expect them to understand the warriors code.

Edited by Hombre Sabio
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23 minutes ago, Alexio15 said:

You cant attack people and alliances and not expect repurcussions to follow.

No I don't expect that and I expected VG and JackLayton to know it also. Instead all I heard was whining and cries of foul, along with bullying of innocent and weak micro alliances.

Take a look at JL recognition of war. He mentioned TMG by name from the very start. Why? Oh because I joined MU in thrashing them which was me just sticking to my word to him just days prior to the attacks.


TMG never conducted raids on VG nor did they engage in any sort of hostilily (open or hidden), they were not even tempted to make fun of Jack or even wish me luck in my endeavor publically. They didn't even react against any of you even after a TMG nation was raided by VG.


BTW is there any damages settlement for the two TMG nation you allies in VG attacked. If this settlement should have even a speck of good faith to it then VG should assume a damages liability for their attacks on TMG. I assume that you being their new protector you will make a case for it to VG.

 

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7 minutes ago, Roal36 said:

No I don't expect that and I expected VG and JackLayton to know it also. Instead all I heard was whining and cries of foul, along with bullying of innocent and weak micro alliances.

Take a look at JL recognition of war. He mentioned TMG by name from the very start. Why? Oh because I joined MU in thrashing them which was me just sticking to my word to him just days prior to the attacks.


TMG never conducted raids on VG nor did they engage in any sort of hostilily (open or hidden), they were not even tempted to make fun of Jack or even wish me luck in my endeavor publically. They didn't even react against any of you even after a TMG nation was raided by VG.


BTW is there any damages settlement for the two TMG nation you allies in VG attacked. If this settlement should have even a speck of good faith to it then VG should assume a damages liability for their attacks on TMG. I assume that you being their new protector you will make a case for it to VG.

 

Why should they do so when their leader jumps aa without posting a formal resignation. You look at the precedent set by all alliances. It's what happens. As for reps for TMG its insignificant. The nation wants aid I'll happily send it his way and be done with it. 

 

JL called foul play because as always a Dow for ***** and giggles never goes down well. Especially if said alliance is stupid enough to do it. With that it's one of those things where you sit down happily take your beating from numerous alliances. You stop whining like a little girl and own your decisions. 

 

When you are ready to talk and not make proposals of false peace. I may listen to it. I'll then keep you at war even longer and make you beg for it. Hell I may not even give you peace but we will see how gracious you take this.

 

11 minutes ago, Hombre Sabio said:

"But end of the day the alliance that's left a smoldering crater with nothing but a ruined butt hole will be mu."

 

That may be so but we will be smiling with the satisfaction of 'smoldering' with honor not as spineless pixel hugging cowards. I can guarantee Bob one thing, you may PZI the Hombre but you will never ever see him surrender. Some may call that stupid and that is OK because I would never expect them to understand the warriors code.

And that is your decision and it's also TMG decision to leave this war of stupidity. 

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28 minutes ago, Alexio15 said:

Why should they do so when their leader jumps aa without posting a formal resignation. You look at the precedent set by all alliances. It's what happens.

I did make a formal resignation. I did it in TMG announcements which is the only place I can reach all of the TMG nations. I followed all things part of the process of stepping down. I appointed my choice of AA heir (TMG rules grant me that power) and I informed him in advance. On the morning (its morning for me) of the attack I wrote up a resignation announcement in the alliance announcement page and left shortly thereafter. It should still be there. I don't need to make a public announcement, the transfer of alliance power is an internal matter. I had already informed Jack Layton in advance that he can expect attacks from me. He never said no to it.  

You are talking about precedents? Is this a court thing or what. If so then damages to TMG nations shouldn't be insignificant. You allies threatened war unjustifiably these threats forced most of the alliance into peace mode causing harm to those nations financially, then one of your allies even declared war on a TMG nation meaning TMG nations had to tool up for war. Also the mental agony and stress caused by your allies to TMG rulers is another thing along with the extortion attempt by Immortan Junka. Why don't we say 6 million and 100 tech to all TMG nations who are active plus 20 million and 200 tech each to the two nations declared on by VG. Its just in a region of around 100 million and 1000 tech which is nothing but a drop in the bucket for most of your top nations so in a way it is insignificant.
You expect TMG to follow precedents then it is expected of you to follow actual precedents of law.

Edited by Roal36
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33 minutes ago, Alexio15 said:

The nation wants aid I'll happily send it his way and be done with it. 

They don't need to ask, you along with SLaP being their protector have to send it. It will improve your tie to the alliance also I would expect you to double the overall damage compensation I just quoted just so it sends a strong message to the alliance that you guys really care about your new protectorate and wishes their well being.

Sometimes maybe TMG leadership might decline to accept your 200 million but that shouldn't stop you because you have the moral right to compensate your protectorate appropriately.

Edited by Roal36
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Just now, Roal36 said:

They don't need to ask, you along with SLaP being their protector have to send it. It will improve your tie to the alliance also I would expect you to double the overall damage compensation I just quoted just so it sends a strong message to the alliance that you guys really care about your new protectorate and wishes their well being.

I'm sorry but I've been an alliance leader for 3 years and high go for 4 I don't need you to tell me how much I need to send to TMG. I will send then as much as I want which is actually quite a substantial amount and not ask anything in return. I just don't need you to tell me to do it or what I should do. 

 

As for my allies declaring war on TMG the only ally I have in this conflict is SLAP. Vg, Umb, snx, kash, rad and anyone else involved I have no tie's to. None of my allies declared on TMG. so I'm sure next time you will make sure that you have actual facts before trying to come at me.with nothing.

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1 minute ago, Alexio15 said:

I just don't need you to tell me to do it or what I should do. 

LoL I JUST DID, and you agree with me on that one for once.

 

2 minutes ago, Alexio15 said:

As for my allies declaring war on TMG the only ally I have in this conflict is SLAP. Vg, Umb, snx, kash, rad and anyone else involved I have no tie's to. None of my allies declared on TMG. so I'm sure next time you will make sure that you have actual facts before trying to come at me.with nothing.

By the "precedents" set in CN in years prior by alliances (most of whome which don't even exist anymore) I think its fair to call VG as your ally in this war.  

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19 minutes ago, Roal36 said:

LoL I JUST DID, and you agree with me on that one for once.

 

By the "precedents" set in CN in years prior by alliances (most of whome which don't even exist anymore) I think its fair to call VG as your ally in this war.  

 

Drop it, Atlas owes nothing. Any reps by the others  would be so small it wouldn't count for much. 

 

What raises my eyebrows is- 

 

1. Why did 9 alliances TMG didn't declare on sign this? 

 

2. Why did FoC sign this? 

 

3. Why does the wording of this....thing act like TMG was an active combatant/ financer of the MU aggression?  

 

4. Why are we here? 

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10 minutes ago, Lucius Optimus said:

 

Drop it, Atlas owes nothing. Any reps by the others  would be so small it wouldn't count for much.

Yes Atlas owes nothing to TMG but VG does. About reps you wrong Lucius as for most of the TMG nations that money will form a huge bulk of their entire war chest its not small to them.  
Even without this treaty TMG would have never dared to attack any of these guys esp with me out of the picture.

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Lucius, how does one deal with barbarians? 

 

Monsters University declared on Varangian Guard and others without a casus belli; in fact, Hardin explicitly said it was just because they wanted to.

 

Likewise, Methrage and company declared against SNX because of a 600 NS ghost that sold tech to Monsters University.

 

Monsters University went to war without consulting their allies, and cries foul when their allies want nothing to do with it. But at the same time, we need insurance that those allies will not provide aid and comfort in the future, especially in the case of TMG, which is closely tied to Roal36.

 

Roal36 already derailed an ODoAP between TMG and SNX so it's obvious that something with more teeth would be needed in order to avoid targeting TMG outright.

 

That's the difference between the coalition and the barbarians at Monsters University and the Libertarian Party of Cybernations, the coalition is civilized and avoids unnecessary warfare whenever it can be helped.

 

If you are worried about fairness, Monsters University should not have been unfair about attacking a bunch of undeveloped nations for no reason.

Edited by Immortan Junka
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16 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

Lucius, how does one deal with barbarians? 

 

Monsters University declared on Varangian Guard and others without a casus belli; in fact, Hardin explicitly said it was just because they wanted to.

 

Likewise, Methrage and company declared against SNX because of a 600 NS ghost that sold tech to Monsters University.

 

Monsters University went to war without consulting their allies, and cries foul when their allies want nothing to do with it. But at the same time, we need insurance that those allies will not provide aid and comfort in the future, especially in the case of TMG, which is closely tied to Roal36.

 

Roal36 already derailed an ODoAP between TMG and SNX so it's obvious that something with more teeth would be needed in order to avoid targeting TMG outright.

 

That's the difference between the coalition and the barbarians at Monsters University and the Libertarian Party of Cybernations, the coalition is civilized and avoids unnecessary warfare whenever it can be helped.

The issue here isn't about MU its about TMG.

MU may not have a CB but I do personally. Also TMG has reasons to attack VG (same as mine) but they didn't. I didn't even put to vote any proposal for war. I even ordered some of the nations not join me in any sort of war. Fact is some have criticized TMG for supporting MU when in reality I was the one supporting MU. Most of the rest of TMG never really had a voice in my decision as I never openly consulted or told the whole alliance of what was going to happen. Nobody can order me to not volunteer for MU as I was the AA monarch, rest of the alliance didn't even know these plans as they were never told about it and I didn't tell them that because it was my personal decision and I was going at it alone.

Yes it is VG and rest of their allies' choice to attack or bully TMG for their association with me but in doing so they can all let go of their moral high horse and stop this criticism of LPC and MU.

Edited by Roal36
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If I had a beef with [insert alliance here], do you think I can just leave Supernova X to go attack them without expecting some kind of repercussions to Supernova X?

 

Obviously not. Any alliance sovereign has a responsibility to put their personal vendettas aside and do whats best for their alliance. The actions taken by sovereigns as individuals reflects back on the alliance, including if the sovereign is seen as having influence there after leaving.

 

You should not underestimate other alliance leaders who have been around the block and seen just about every trick in the book pulled over the years. There's no law that says TMG can't be attacked in retaliation for your actions, the only reason an extensive effort was made to remove TMG from the conflict was because we aren't barbarians.

Edited by Immortan Junka
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Roal, there seems to be a serious misunderstanding on your part here that I won't bother to quote the multiple posts in where you make it. 

 

For some reason, you seem to believe that SLAP and Atlas protection should immediately become some situation which covers retroactive problems.  That protection comes with no agreement to seek reps from Varangian Guard nor from Federation of Cobra for damages done prior to their war.  What TMG can expect from us is protection from the point of signing forward.  They can expect that SLAP and Atlas will make a reasonable effort to aid them in seeking a prosperous future in multiple facets of the game, including their economic state.  But expecting this to create drama in coalition channels?  There is no expectation for that, and it isn't going to happen. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, General Gorgoth said:

We're not spineless but we're no stupid enough to go to war when none of us are prepared. I said right from the beginning of this war that we were not in a position to fight and the only thing dragging us into the war in the first place was everybody believing Roal36 was still connected to us.

Yep, looks like this is true. That was the reason for Article II: it's a horse!@#$ test. Good on you for accepting it.

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5 hours ago, Immortan Junka said:

Lucius, how does one deal with barbarians? 

 

Monsters University declared on Varangian Guard and others without a casus belli; in fact, Hardin explicitly said it was just because they wanted to.

 

Likewise, Methrage and company declared against SNX because of a 600 NS ghost that sold tech to Monsters University.

 

Monsters University went to war without consulting their allies, and cries foul when their allies want nothing to do with it. But at the same time, we need insurance that those allies will not provide aid and comfort in the future, especially in the case of TMG, which is closely tied to Roal36.

 

Roal36 already derailed an ODoAP between TMG and SNX so it's obvious that something with more teeth would be needed in order to avoid targeting TMG outright.

 

That's the difference between the coalition and the barbarians at Monsters University and the Libertarian Party of Cybernations, the coalition is civilized and avoids unnecessary warfare whenever it can be helped.

 

If you are worried about fairness, Monsters University should not have been unfair about attacking a bunch of undeveloped nations for no reason.

The nations we attacked were developed. There may have been a few huge advantages for us, but that's why we have defensive slots. The nations that attacked us, some of them are developed. We knew we would get all our defensive slots filled, we love it. 

 

"Monsters University went to war without consulting their allies, and cries foul when their allies want nothing to do with it." What are you even talking about? Our only ally was the win bloc, and we talked about it. Never cried foul. 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Hombre Sabio said:

"But end of the day the alliance that's left a smoldering crater with nothing but a ruined butt hole will be mu."

 

That may be so but we will be smiling with the satisfaction of 'smoldering' with honor not as spineless pixel hugging cowards. I can guarantee Bob one thing, you may PZI the Hombre but you will never ever see him surrender AGAIN. Some may call that stupid and that is OK because I would never expect them to understand the warriors code.

 

 

Fixed that for you. :D

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1 hour ago, Supreme Emperor Daeg said:

Hails for the generous alliances that gave TMG a second chance. 

I think they can all live without that much credit :P 

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