Imperium Recognition of War

[The Zigur]

7 minutes ago, kingzog said:

 

It's kinda nice that Coculus gives jobs to people like Lord Malaprop who would otherwise be unemployable.

 

Plutocracy requires mercenary thugs to attack the lower-tier producing class. This is why Sengoku is willing to back Monsters Inc no matter how egregious their behavior from a moral standpoint.

[Haflinger]

6 hours ago, berbers said:

Also holy crap Occulus, getting in bed with Lord &#$@ and helping negotiate micro drama...now ive seen everything.

The rogues they helped defend against Kashmir are now in LH's alliance. Look for where President Hardin goes, looks like Oculus is willing to follow.

[Lord Hitchcock]

10 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

Plutocracy requires mercenary thugs to attack the lower-tier producing class. This is why Sengoku is willing to back Monsters Inc no matter how egregious their behavior from a moral standpoint.

 

Typical Junka, inciting class warfare to fit his agenda

[Morphine]

[shahenshah]

o/ Sengoku

 

o/ SNX, hope you kill Minc

 

 

[Abshire]

 

53 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

"Shark week" was exactly a year ago this day, something that Caustic has been constantly alluding to.

Shark Week started on July 10th last year. How do you not know this? 

[Isolatar]

1 hour ago, Auctor said:

shark week was *last month* btw.

 

Weird. Either Caustic was extremely late to the party, since the logs were from 10 days ago in a public IRC channel (bear in mind he said this exactly a week before the ultimatum to SCOTLAND went up) or someone's lying again.

 

Funny how he says this and then soon after, SNX gets attacked.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Isolatar
clarification

[XxHouseArrestXx]

What SnX needs, is someone who can shut up when he needs to.  Good luck I guess. 

[The Zigur]

10 minutes ago, XxHouseArrestXx said:

What SnX needs, is someone who can shut up when he needs to.  Good luck I guess. 

 

I know that's conventional political thinking, but silence implies guilt, and SNX is not the guilty party here. Just because the other side is composed of thugs and bullies with numbers on their side doesn't mean they should control the narrative. We will fight as long as necessary to secure our freedom. Freedom means having the right to speak our opinions, not kowtowing to Might makes Right mentality.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Immortan Junka

[Petro]

1 minute ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

I know that's conventional political thinking, but silence implies guilt, and SNX is not the guilty party here. Just because the other side is composed of thugs and bullies with numbers on their side doesn't mean they should control the narrative. We will fight as long as necessary to secure our freedom.

 

Which freedom are you talking about? The freedom to say what you want or the freedom from the consequences of that? No one is trying to take the former from you, but the latter is not something that actually exists.

 

[The Zigur]

11 minutes ago, Petro said:

 

Which freedom are you talking about? The freedom to say what you want or the freedom from the consequences of that? No one is trying to take the former from you, but the latter is not something that actually exists.

 

 

If our enemies desire to attack us officially because we state our opinion on Sengoku supporting Minc, so be it. 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2016 by Immortan Junka

[President Hardin]

1 hour ago, Haflinger said:

The rogues they helped defend against Kashmir are now in LH's alliance. Look for where President Hardin goes, looks like Oculus is willing to follow.

Yea I own oculus? 

[Petro]

1 minute ago, President Hardin said:

Yea I own oculus? 

 

Technically you don't own it until you finish all payments laid out in the 36 month lease to own contract.

[Lord Hitchcock]

38 minutes ago, Isolatar said:

 

Weird. Either Caustic was extremely late to the party, since the logs were from 10 days ago in a public IRC channel (bear in mind he said this exactly a week before the ultimatum to SCOTLAND went up) or someone's lying again.

 

Funny how he says this and then soon after, SNX gets attacked.

 

Are you conspiring that Caustic and the SCOTLAND ultimatum are pre-fabricated and somehow directly linked?

[XxHouseArrestXx]

27 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

I know that's conventional political thinking, but silence implies guilt, and SNX is not the guilty party here. Just because the other side is composed of thugs and bullies with numbers on their side doesn't mean they should control the narrative. We will fight as long as necessary to secure our freedom. Freedom means having the right to speak our opinions, not kowtowing to Might makes Right mentality.

So you may be right this time or you may not be, I don't really care.  I haven't been following these events and I don't plan to, but before this occurrence you kept talking crap and afterwards I doubt anything will change and as a result you will continue to maintain the target on SnX's back, you should follow the advice.

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2016 by XxHouseArrestXx

[The Zigur]

5 minutes ago, XxHouseArrestXx said:

So you may be right this time or you may not be, I don't really care.  I haven't been following these events and I don't plan to, but before this occurrence you kept talking crap and afterwards I doubt anything will change and as a result you will continue to maintain the target on SnX's back, you should follow the advice.

 

 

 

 

I understand where you are coming from but we have been targeted since before SNX was formed, heck even after I was expelled SNX still got attacked, some people just want to tear down what they can't have. Our only duty in the Imperium is to make the process as painful for aggressors as possible, whether it's OWF posting, EMP nukes, or micro tier bushwacking.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Immortan Junka

[Petro]

Just now, Immortan Junka said:

 

I understand where you are coming from but we have been targeted since before SNX was formed, heck even after I was expelled SNX still got attacked, some people just want to tear down what they can't have, our only duty in the Imperium is to make the process as painful for aggressors as possible.

 

If the Imperium's only duty is to make things as painful as possible for everyone else then you being in charge suddenly makes a lot more sense.

[The Zigur]

4 minutes ago, Petro said:

 

If the Imperium's only duty is to make things as painful as possible for everyone else then you being in charge suddenly makes a lot more sense.

 

If you just leave us alone we're very easy to get along with. But seeing as you have wound yourselves around Lord Hitchcocks thumb, then welcome to micro drama.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Immortan Junka

[Lord Hitchcock]

8 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

I understand where you are coming from but we have been targeted since before SNX was formed, heck even after I was expelled SNX still got attacked, some people just want to tear down what they can't have. Our only duty in the Imperium is to make the process as painful for aggressors as possible, whether it's OWF posting, EMP nukes, or micro tier bushwacking.

 

I am glad to see that you have heeded to XxHouseArrestXx's advice...

 

Edited July 12, 2016 by Lord Hitchcock

[Petro]

3 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

If you just leave us alone we're very easy to get along with.

 

 

Couldn't agree more, some of my fondest memories of SNX revolve around those times that I totally forgot you existed. That being said, as much as we would love to continue ignoring your existence threats and insults directed at our members trying to diplomatically defuse a situation cannot go unaddressed.

[kingthero]

Alright, this is another moment where I feel like I just want to get my opinion out there.

 

Yup, its Bernie from SNX, and I heard today Bernie endorsed Clinton and dropped out... quite sad; kinda ruins my name.

 

But, here is where I see it.

 

1. Illegitimate squabbles- While I do see some reason from both sides in this matter, I admit I see both sides making exaggerated comments past the justification they bring.

 

2. Legit talks- It seems to me that things were going well, and then all the sudden someone fired a red flare at a bull. It does seem that while SNX was "protecting" its allies at Scotland, it seemed to have gone from a legitimate claim to a cocky situation. After examining the logs from both sides, it does seem that SNX did "trigger" the hostile interactions between both sides. And don't get me started by asking for proof; this is my examination, not a lawyer's prosecution. It seemed to me like this conflict arose from a salty ocean in the wrong side of town.

 

3. War vs Peace- War was justified, but in one of the wrongest of ways. It seems to have started because one person got out of hand and declared. THIS SEEMS TO BE DRIVEN SO MUCH FURTHER THAN THE ORIGINAL CAUSE! I think it is absurd that one side was making war threats and it was also absurd how much our side flipped out because of it. War threats, while serious, should not be blown out of proportion. Kinda a crap analogy I am about to make, but do you think just because North Korea makes threats to the almighty cocky U.S they declare war? No... 

 

My final conclusion is that the war should not be a war. Peace talks should have kept going, and both sides should have had cool minded diplomats in a room talking it out without the excess people in the situation. I feel if 1 diplomat from every alliance were in a room, more could get done in 5 minutes then leaders from both sides could get done in days.

 

Now listen: I think that alliances fighting over casus bellis well organized may be necessary...But it seems to me that while the casus belli originally brought up could have met this, the talks following ruined it. 

 

4. Scotland's Treaty- I feel like the peace deal was alright, except for the part where they wanted to change a tech deal system, and partially the apologetic part, and maybe bits and pieces of everything else that I wouldn't agree with but its not worth argueing. Now, I feel like tech deals between nations should stay between the nations. If they are really that bad, then why are the members not leaving the alliance? Do you think they'd get attacked for "abandoning"? Probably, maybe not though. I feel if the person left the alliance with a reasonable forum post, then just let the person go. I personally wouldn't ever attack someone that left my alliance unless it was under certain circumstances of hostility towards others of the alliance. Now apologies: while this is a simple concept, sometimes its taken a bit to far. Simple enough.

 

5. Economic downfalls- You know what this war destroys? Not just warchests, but months of economy. War is interesting, but not when it comes to a fact where it is minimally justified. Both sides could benefit from not doing the war... Think about it, if this war is not highly justified, then why fight a war other than for pure destruction? If you are an alliance about pure destruction, which I know some MEMBERS of alliances are, then go right ahead. But I know for a fact no alliances here's goals are for unreasonable wars. 

 

6. Me- Just don't even try to propagandalize me (nice word I made) about this situation. I look at whats brought before me, not after I already make my decision.

 

Final thought: Since both sides have brought bad attitudes to this thing, I say we as a community rethink the decisions made. Lets bring back up diplomacy once the pot has boiled so all the salt stays behind. From this situation I can not even choose a side; so for this moment I am in no wars luckily because I am in peace mode (I did get orders yes, but I don't want to fight in something I don't believe in.) I will defend my alliance if it gets out of hand due to loyalty, but for the start of this war I will remain indifferent.

 

 

[Lord Hitchcock]

14 minutes ago, kingthero said:

Legit talks- It seems to me that things were going well, and then all the sudden someone fired a red flare at a bull. It does seem that while SNX was "protecting" its allies at Scotland, it seemed to have gone from a legitimate claim to a cocky situation. After examining the logs from both sides, it does seem that SNX did "trigger" the hostile interactions between both sides. 

 

 

I like you. And while I don't necessary agree 100% with your other claims, I applaud you for at least justifying your views with substance.

 

And politics aside, well done.

 

I truly hope that one day you take over SNX (seriously)- as they could genuinely use a leader like yourself who the people on Planet Bob can at least comprehend and have reasonable dialogue with.

 

o/ salute

[Petro]

3 minutes ago, Lord Hitchcock said:

 

 

I like you. And while I don't necessary agree 100% with your other claims, I applaud you for at least justifying your views with substance.

 

And politics aside, well done.

 

I truly hope that one day you take over SNX (seriously)- as they could genuinely use a leader like yourself who the people on Planet Bob can at least comprehend and have reasonable dialogue with.

 

o/ salute

 

When I find myself agreeing with L_H I know it's time that I take a break. But seriously, what is this oddness coming from SNX that resembles a thought out and nuanced opinion? I applaud your attempt at adult dialogue, if not your type point choices, Kingthero.

[The Zigur]

Although any endorsement by LH is absolutely worthless, kingthero does represent a decent percentage of our membership aside from our hardcore revolutionaries. I'd love to have the opportunity to retire and finally join the Emeritus club, but as idiots see fit to constantly transgress on the Imperium it seems like I'll be needing to bash in skulls throughout the forseeable future.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Immortan Junka

[Lord Hitchcock]

4 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

Although any endorsement by LH is absolutely worthless, kingthero does represent a decent percentage of our membership aside from our hardcore revolutionaries. I'd love to have the opportunity to retire and finally join the Emeritus club, but as idiots see fit to constantly transgress on the Imperium it seems like I'll be needing to bash in skulls throughout the forseeable future.

 

This is why we beat you