Imperium Recognition of War

[The Zigur]

11 minutes ago, brucemania said:

 

In all honesty.  In general i have found that if one makes a mistake ... maybe not debating things to try and put something on someone else and owning up to ones own mistake usually makes things easier to get through.  I do not think in this case any one is trying to be your master at all. You yourself are bringing this upon yourself for the words you speak. As for you men being free ... well it looks to me they themselves are under siege and not free at this point. In other words the martyr or victim persona you are trying to preach at this point is not letting your men be free.

 

So long as we carry our rifles and fight our persecuters, we are free of subjugation and tyranny.

[kingzog]

16 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

No man serves as my master. EZI couldn't change that, nor could the arrogance of tyrants. Free men stand beside me here in the Imperium, and that's all I could ever ask for.

 

Sorry, but I honestly cannot tell if you know I'm saying that your suspicion isn't groundless.

[Blackatron]

2 hours ago, Lucius Optimus said:

Anyone selling at rates of 9mil for 300 tech is an idiot and a complete slave. 

 

For new nations rates of less than 6/100 are rather unfair, slowing their (already slow) early growth considerably, when tech deals are their main source of income.

 

For somewhat established nations with some wonders and at 3k+ infra it shouldn't really matter, the majority of their income is what they collect in taxes, they should be able to afford to give tech away for free if they really want to.

 

Of course starting off with a higher rate then changing to a lower rate isn't likely something many would be particularly happy.

 

To put figures on it 6/100 deal offers ~2.2 million profit per slot per ten days, 6/200 deal offers ~1 million profit per slot per 10 days.

[The Zigur]

4 minutes ago, kingzog said:

 

Sorry, but I honestly cannot tell if you know I'm saying that your suspicion isn't groundless.

 

I know it isn't groundless, I would take EZI before being a tech slave. We worked hard to build our lower tier and we won't make it easy for Sengoku to steal and rob from us.

[Monster]

53 minutes ago, Blackatron said:

 

For new nations rates of less than 6/100 are rather unfair, slowing their (already slow) early growth considerably, when tech deals are their main source of income.

 

For somewhat established nations with some wonders and at 3k+ infra it shouldn't really matter, the majority of their income is what they collect in taxes, they should be able to afford to give tech away for free if they really want to.

 

Of course starting off with a higher rate then changing to a lower rate isn't likely something many would be particularly happy.

 

To put figures on it 6/100 deal offers ~2.2 million profit per slot per ten days, 6/200 deal offers ~1 million profit per slot per 10 days.

 

It's not really entirely about the money and growth isn't necessarily good if you end up becoming a buyer and needing to spend money you should be using on your warchest/wonders on 6/100 or 9m/100 tech deals. The point though is the time, 6m/100 deals are inefficient for the buyer as they have to restart them every 20 days instead of 30. Even though there a lot of low tier alliances that push 6m/100, alliances with plenty of internal sellers still do them at 6m/200 and 9m/300 rates or supply their nations for free. All the 6m/100 campaigning does is only make the gap bigger between alliances that have free tech set-ups or 6m/200 internal rates and those that don't. It also means sellers will grow out of selling range faster and have less people to buy from.  Of course, the trend is that a lot of people aren't using tech deals as a way to become buyers themselves, but rather just staying sellers and low tier permanently. This creates a problem for anyone who is a buyer and anyone who wants to become one as they are more or less forced to play ball within this 6m/100 system. Long-term, a seller will benefit from better rates when they become a buyer rather than better rates when they are a seller.

 

Yeah, if someone is staying small perpetually, the rate shouldn't matter or they should be giving it away. 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2016 by Monster

[The Zigur]

Sengoku's acceptable behavior checklist:

 

*Threaten Forced disbandment - ok

*Break Non Aggression Pact - ok

*Leak internal alliance communications -ok

*Harass and threaten wars in query - ok

*Support Monsters Inc - ok

*Fabricate stories of OOC attacks - ok

 

Unacceptable behavior:

 

*Imply Sengoku supports Minc - BAD

*Suggest Sengoku are bad guys internaly - EZI TIME

[Edward Graceford]

I've always had strong reservations about the rationale that sellers should accept deals that favour the buyers, out of the notion that once (or rather, if) they become buyers themselves, they'll reap the rewards then. How many get that far? Some will, certainly but not everyone does. Some can see it as a little pie in the sky, that little utopia they strive for but always seems so far away.

 

On that rationale, the seller must become a buyer. More precisely, sellers develop and grow their nation until they reach the tipping point where they become the buyer, and carry on after breaching that barrier. In that view, the ideal is for all nations to eventually become buyers. And that is also the problem. With less and less new nations arising, "natural sellers" (those selling on their journey to grow) become more scarce. As an increasingly scarce resource, there is pressure to commandeer those sellers for an alliance's own purposes. Wars have been threatened, even declared over access to this resource.

 

The perpetual sellers offer an alternative. They keep low, they keep selling. The tech will continue to flow. But at the same time those who choose to stay there make that conscious decision and thus have a negotiating position. Buyers perhaps are more wary because perpetual sellers are more likely to know their own value and how sought after they are. Thats partly why they try to command better rates.

 

My belief is that those who are buying shouldn't be the only ones able to dictate terms.

 

Of course, other views and rationales are available and all that. Personally, as well as the wonderful people, I love SNX because the tech program is one where I feel more than just a tech drone, producing and producing for a comparative pittance.

 

Just throwing my two penny's worth out there.

[USMC123]

Dumb vs dumber. You decide who's who.

 

Question though since I stopped reading after page 2, did anyone actually post any evidence of someone threatening to disband Scotland? Cuz unless I missed it, I didn't see anyone even hint that.

[Edward Graceford]

2 minutes ago, USMC123 said:

Question though since I stopped reading after page 2, did anyone actually post any evidence of someone threatening to disband Scotland? Cuz unless I missed it, I didn't see anyone even hint that.

 

 

[Mogar]

Nobody can disband another alliance unless the alliance wants to disband.

[Lord Hitchcock]

1 hour ago, brucemania said:

 

In all honesty.  In general i have found that if one makes a mistake ... maybe not debating things to try and put something on someone else and owning up to ones own mistake usually makes things easier to get through.  I do not think in this case any one is trying to be your master at all. You yourself are bringing this upon yourself for the words you speak. As for you men being free ... well it looks to me they themselves are under siege and not free at this point. In other words the martyr or victim persona you are trying to preach at this point is not letting your men be free.

 

This post wins the thread.

[Edward Graceford]

Very true. nevertheless the threat was made. Ability or otherwise to act on it notwithstanding.

 

[The Zigur]

3 minutes ago, Mogar said:

Nobody can disband another alliance unless the alliance wants to disband.

 

The question is when Monsters Inc threatens war if SCOTLAND doesn't disband, and furthermore when Sengoku in all likelihood planned to militarily counter Supernova X or Knights of the Round table for protecting SCOTLAND. 

Edited July 13, 2016 by Immortan Junka

[Lord Hitchcock]

1 hour ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

So long as we carry our rifles and fight our persecuters, we are free of subjugation and tyranny.

 

 

You are a tyrant. You lie to your members, you instill fear in your members to keep some sort of sick power trip. You allow your members to burn because you're a lieing bag of filth

Edited July 13, 2016 by Lord Hitchcock

[The Zigur]

Just now, Lord Hitchcock said:

 

 

You our are a tyrant. You lie to your members, you instill fear in your members to keep some sort of sick power trip. You allow your members to burn because you're a lieing bag of filth

 

Every time you call me a liar I am going to point out you violated your non-aggression pact with VG by attacking SNX. We can do this for as long as this war lasts.

[Auctor]

This tech rate tangent is kind of dumb and a discussion better had elsewhere, but realistically if the majority of your nation's income comes from foreign aid after the first 90 days, your alliance is failing to provide you with the tools to succeed. There also seems to be a misunderstanding about what the value of tech to an alliance actually is being shown.

[Lord Hitchcock]

25 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

Every time you call me a liar I am going to point out you violated your non-aggression pact with VG by attacking SNX. We can do this for as long as this war lasts.

 

 We 'violated' our NAP with VG in support of our friends in Cowboys. After you were a blatant ass clown following the peace talks. You went as far as to personally insult Hartw and then turn around and lie about it on here, playing some helpless 'victim'.

 

You then attempt made up narratives, you have been exposed as a goddamn liar, and when other level-headed people, including XxHouseArrestXx and Brucemania give you sound advice- you not only refuse to heed it, but you make it worse as some sort of sick ego clutch at the expense of your members' well being.

 

You've slandered Hatw's character with false lies, you've slandered Sengoku's character with false lies (which we caught you).

 

You're a liar (and I'm not just saying that, we've literally produced concrete screenshots exposing you), who doesn't take responsibility for his wreckless actions and I hope nothing more than to burn SNXs lower tier for a very very very very long time.

 

and YOUR OWN Government member even acknowledged that your credibility is shot.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2016 by Lord Hitchcock

[Monster]

14 minutes ago, Edward Graceford said:

I've always had strong reservations about the rationale that sellers should accept deals that favour the buyers, out of the notion that once (or rather, if) they become buyers themselves, they'll reap the rewards then. How many get that far? Some will, certainly but not everyone does. Some can see it as a little pie in the sky, that little utopia they strive for but always seems so far away.

 

On that rationale, the seller must become a buyer. More precisely, sellers develop and grow their nation until they reach the tipping point where they become the buyer, and carry on after breaching that barrier. In that view, the ideal is for all nations to eventually become buyers. And that is also the problem. With less and less new nations arising, "natural sellers" (those selling on their journey to grow) become more scarce. As an increasingly scarce resource, there is pressure to commandeer those sellers for an alliance's own purposes. Wars have been threatened, even declared over access to this resource.

 

The perpetual sellers offer an alternative. They keep low, they keep selling. The tech will continue to flow. But at the same time those who choose to stay there make that conscious decision and thus have a negotiating position. Buyers perhaps are more wary because perpetual sellers are more likely to know their own value and how sought after they are. Thats partly why they try to command better rates.

 

My belief is that those who are buying shouldn't be the only ones able to dictate terms.

 

Of course, other views and rationales are available and all that. Personally, as well as the wonderful people, I love SNX because the tech program is one where I feel more than just a tech drone, producing and producing for a comparative pittance.

 

Just throwing my two penny's worth out there.

 

If they want to get that far, they can. I wouldn't see much of a point to playing if you're not aiming for some long-term nation goals or giving stuff to other alliance mebers.  There are fast ways to become a buyer if you can prove your reliability.

 

There are still new nations being made currently and several major alliances had fairly high recruiting months earlier in the year. The contraction in population would be far steeper if there weren't a decent amount being made still.

 

Perpetual sellers don't really need the money from tech sales as Blackatron brought up  if they have sufficient infrastructure(which selling for a long time would get you the money for) as they would be making most of their money from collections. The point of being a perpetual seller could only conceivably  to help the buyers in your alliance or your allies if that.  The effect of the current system of 6m/100 rates is it just reduces the number of competitive alliances since no one doing 6m/100 will be able to compete with someone getting it for free or for 9m/300.

 

 

[Spartan1985]

L_H and Tywin deserve each other. Sadly, the members of their respective alliances do not. Do everyone a favor, abdicate your positions, and then engage in eternal war amongst yourselves. Preferably quietly.

[The Zigur]

39 minutes ago, Lord Hitchcock said:

 

 We 'violated' our NAP with VG in support of our friends in Cowboys.

 

 

Thanks for acknowledging you broke your word with Jack Layton, we don't need the wall of text justifying it.

[Lord Hitchcock]

4 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

Thanks for acknowledging you broke your word with Jack Layton, we don't need the wall of text justifying it.

 

And we'd do it again to help out our friends

[The Zigur]

2 minutes ago, Lord Hitchcock said:

 

And we'd do it again to help out our friends

 

"Friends" meaning whoever lets you bandwaggon wars with them.

[Lord Hitchcock]

5 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

"Friends" meaning whoever lets you bandwaggon wars with them.

 

While false, it's still a better narrative than your reality of sabotaging peace agreements to benefit your own ego at the expense of your 'friends'- who you blatantly lied to.

 

Edited July 14, 2016 by Lord Hitchcock

[The Zigur]

5 minutes ago, Lord Hitchcock said:

 

While false, it's still a better narrative than your reality of sabotaging peace agreements to benefit your own ego at the expense of your 'friends'- who you blatantly lied to.

 

 

I don't use "friendship" to justify egregious actions like you. You are the scum of this world and I thrice curse you, and while you get on your kneepads for support from Sengoku, I will be on my feet and take pleasure in smashing your nation on the battlefield.

[Lord Hitchcock]

8 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said:

 

I don't use "friendship" to justify egregious actions like you. You are the scum of this world and I thrice curse you, and while you get on your kneepads for support from Sengoku, I will be on my feet and take pleasure in smashing your nation on the battlefield.

 

let's not forget about the other 68 of your lied-to comrades...

 

Edited July 14, 2016 by Lord Hitchcock