Smells Like Freedom, A Non Grata Announcement

[Duderonomy]

14 minutes ago, Margrave said:

 

So you don't have a cogent response to inquiry, nor are you much appraised of history, got it.

Boy, my dissertation is on Lulzism and Its Antecedents 2012-2015

[Walshington]

Fellas, fellas, FELLAS!

 

There IS a timeline out there for the curious.  Apparently, it goes like this:

 

1.  Jack Layton attacks LN, I *think* from some other AA.  I was not...er -- in a position to see this transpire, but it seems reasonable and I don't doubt it.

2.  Methrage eschews diplomacy and declares on Kashmir.  LN is NOT a protectorate of NG last I checked.

3. COBRA, a Kush protectorate, joins in the battle of their own freewill -- declaring on LN.

4. Confederatio Aesir, a Non Grata protectorate, joins in the battle of their own freewill -- declares on Kashmir.

5.  Duderonomy sends his thesis to an editor, who is impressed by the groundbreaking theories on Lulzism within.

6.  Non Grata enters against Kashmir,  The stated reasons are: 1) messing with their OD partner (assumed to be Seven Days in the Son or the German equivalent)

     2) Messing with our protectorate (presumably CA, although they jumped in like COBRA did of their own freewill).

7.  A bunch of other people DoW, including Last Call in defense of Kashmir.

8. Hartfw continues to wear his "Former Argent Minister" sig instead of the new, badass "Cowboys" sig, which someone worked SO hard on, despite the fact that  the lack of its presence can ONLY be seen as hurtful and triggering.

9. DMFA, a protectorate of Kashmir, attacked by Non Grata.

10.  Duderonomy's thesis approved -- Bob never the same.

 

[hartfw]

16 minutes ago, Walshington said:

Fellas, fellas, FELLAS!

 

There IS a timeline out there for the curious.  Apparently, it goes like this:

 

1.  Jack Layton attacks LN, I *think* from some other AA.  I was not...er -- in a position to see this transpire, but it seems reasonable and I don't doubt it.

2.  Methrage eschews diplomacy and declares on Kashmir.  LN is NOT a protectorate of NG last I checked.

3. COBRA, a Kush protectorate, joins in the battle of their own freewill -- declaring on LN.

4. Confederatio Aesir, a Non Grata protectorate, joins in the battle of their own freewill -- declares on Kashmir.

5.  Duderonomy sends his thesis to an editor, who is impressed by the groundbreaking theories on Lulzism within.

6.  Non Grata enters against Kashmir,  The stated reasons are: 1) messing with their OD partner (assumed to be Seven Days in the Son or the German equivalent)

     2) Messing with our protectorate (presumably CA, although they jumped in like COBRA did of their own freewill).

7.  A bunch of other people DoW, including Last Call in defense of Kashmir.

8. Hartfw continues to wear his "Former Argent Minister" sig instead of the new, badass "Cowboys" sig, which someone worked SO hard on, despite the fact that  the lack of its presence can ONLY be seen as hurtful and triggering.

9. DMFA, a protectorate of Kashmir, attacked by Non Grata.

10.  Duderonomy's thesis approved -- Bob never the same.

 

 

It takes a while to get over Argent.  If I could show both I would, and I'm pretty excited to have a replacement lined up for when I fully move on.

 

That said, I have seen one of the sigs already in use.  And the rest of cowboys are aware of them, while we await Schad's tactial empire.

Edited May 9, 2016 by hartfw

[Duderonomy]

I'd better make sure that I publish before Walsh does.

[The Pansy]

Bad Ass Cowboy sig, check.
 

[Margrave]

A few additions to the record, lest we forget:

 

1.SDS was providing military aid (money and soldiers) to a group of rogues. When diplomatically approached, we were told to pound sand. A spy op was later reported on the nation who provided the aid.

2. DMFA is a Last Call protectorate, not Kashmir's

3. Methrage had some kind of insane terms he wanted for Jack hitting him, like us ZIing him and a bunch of other nonsense. But he's a crazy %#&!, so that was never going to happen

 

I am enjoying the massive discomfort of certain people who Methrage is trying to buddy up to! It's almost like you don't want to be associated with him!

Edited May 9, 2016 by Margrave

[Walshington]

15 minutes ago, Margrave said:

A few additions to the record, lest we forget:

 

1.SDS was providing military aid (money and soldiers) to a group of rogues. When diplomatically approached, we were told to pound sand. A spy op was later reported on the nation who provided the aid.

 

I knew there was SOMETHING going on there, couldn't remember what -- it was that Caparo group, no?

Quote

2. DMFA is a Last Call protectorate, not Kashmir's

DOH!  I KNEW this, too!

I am a BAD poster.

 

Quote

3. Methrage had some kind of insane terms he wanted for Jack hitting him, like us ZIing him and a bunch of other nonsense. But he's a crazy %#&!, so that was never going to happen

 

I am enjoying the massive discomfort of certain people who Methrage is trying to buddy up to! It's almost like you don't want to be associated with him!

 

The terms were strict as I recall, and yes, despite the NG OP there is a bit of of...   I think distancing is unfair, but "failure to embrace" seems accurate.  Not by Hartfw or Auctor, who have defended Meth's right to defend himself.

[Sephiroth]

21 minutes ago, Margrave said:

I am enjoying the massive discomfort of certain people who Methrage is trying to buddy up to! It's almost like you don't want to be associated with him!

Lack of slots is probably the only reason more alliance`s aren't attacking you, so I`m enjoying watching how deep of a hole you guys can dig yourselves into.

 

We had 4 members when you guys attacked, we're much bigger now than we were then. Most of your remaining NS are from your current top 3 sitting in peace mode the entire war; likely losing money daily at this point. I thought the negative effect on moral for your side would have him out sooner, but SW will probably need to come out soon for financial reasons. 5 Guerilla Camps during a long stay in peace mode can't be helping his warchest, only making it worse.

 

You guys have had this coming for a while for so many reasons. At least we're both enjoying ourselves though.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

1. Kashmir played the bully one time too many.

2. Kashmir gets hit for it.

3. Kashmir flees to PM. Those caught out turtle.

4. Margrave destroys all their enemies with his super-power of sprinkling 10 dollar words in amongst the BS and lies. Kashmir exits PM to a new Bob, all your enemies have left, and in their place Admin has placed a ladder of zombie nations who always buy troops and never fight back, and y'all live happily ever after.

 

Nope, that's not how it works, but feel free to keep trying that tactic, it's kind of amusing to watch.

 

 

 

[White Chocolate]

11 hours ago, Duderonomy said:

I don't know what else you call an attempt to impose universal values on Bob. Especially values that they never upheld themselves. Oh wait, you call that hypocrisy. I stand corrected.

 

Franchising your banks so they aren't flying your flag doesn't protect them. I know the Kashmir paperless credo was built on the idea that shadow ties were more strategically sound, but you shouldn't be surprised that we won't let them sit this one out.so you can be right back to hitting our protectorates next month.

Subcat answered better than I probably will, so I quoted him below. 

 

To remain consistent, I will say in public that in my personal opinion, attacking a group's protectorate during war (i.e. I'm not talking about a raid) when the protectorate has decided NOT to get involved with the war is a bad political move.  This is as true for Kashmir or anyone else.  It's not about ethics or "morals." 

 

This is just my personal opinion and not a government position.  I do not hold any official position in any alliance at the moment and i'm taking advantage of that to say what *I* - as White Chocolate only - personally think.  Other leaders who are or have been government in any other "doom" alliances may or may not agree as they chose.

 

When I decide that I'm sick of Planet Bob and give in entirely to a moralist view, you all will know it because I'll by applying to GPA.  I'm not there...yet.  I'm not promising it will never happen   (The behind the scenes politics of Planet Bob are far more dirty than I suspected.  Now I know better.  I haven't decided yet if I care.)

 

Getting back to my previous point.  IF this was a "raid" by Non Grata, I was not aware of that fact.  There is nothing I saw in the war declarations to indicate a raid.  Having said that, I still see it as a bad move because of Last Call's ties to NPO.  When I was in DBDC, and members there decided to raid groups tied to allies, I personally thought those were bad moves too.  But when one is not the leader of a group, what one can do about it (again, based on politics) is limited.

 

7 hours ago, Haflinger said:

Nearly everyone in this war, on both sides, has some kind of connection to Doomsphere. Most of Oculus, including Non Grata, has a relationship of some kind with DBDC. Incidentally, neither Last Call nor Kashmir have a DBDC connection. So I don't quite see how we get to be the ones blamed for precedents set by DBDC actions.

 

Confirmed as far as Last Call is concerned.  Kashmir was never directly allied to DBDC either.  I suppose one could make an argument saying that they were via Doom Kingdom (who DK had a paperless treaty with and NG government was well aware of, maybe not the membership) depending on how much one cares about the shared "doom" in our name. 

 

I personally never thought it a big deal that we shared "doom" but considering that it mattered for how the rest of the world viewed DK - it was another consideration we (Lord Hershey and I)  had to balance when deciding what actions we would take when responding to the rest of the world.  Let's just say I am not planning on making another "doom" anything Live and learn. (I may decide to rejoin DBDC though if they will have me)

 

5 hours ago, Sabcat said:

 

You have a very limited imagination then, replace "morals" with cultural norms. There's no call to moral authority in WC's post, simply stating that going against those cultural norms to the detriment of friends of friends is not conducive to the long term stability of relationships. There's no call to "right" or "wrong" merely an opinion expressed as to the expediency of choosing those actions. You don't need to have read The Prince to understand that this is basically the opposite of moralism.

 

Correct.  Well said.

Edited May 9, 2016 by White Chocolate

[Duderonomy]

Well, somebody has decided that DMFA belongs in a museum. I'll rogue them for their loot later.

[Haflinger]

On 2016-05-08 at 4:19 PM, Duderonomy said:

This isn't about DBDC, who isn't aligned with anybody. DK had no problems with CBs, no overt ties to Kashmir that I knew of, and they're the ones with the smear campaign. Also, did Last Call happen to sign a treaty with Kashmir while I was gone? Or was that another one of them paperless things that you just use to do whatever the hell you want? Double-standards aren't conducive to a productive culture, mmmkay.

Last Call and Kashmir have been allied since our formation. Last Call was created by a merger between Javahouse, Anarchy Inc. and The Sandwich Confederation. Javahouse and Kashmir were also allies, and in fact launched wars together. We don't have a formal treaty but you don't need that to consider yourself allied.

 

If you think launching a war that has us lined up against nearly all of Oculus constitutes a war of convenience, I have to laugh in your general direction as well. Or perhaps you think we're a lot bigger than we actually are.

 

Admittedly, if Oculus had decided to abandon Polar, we'd probably be bragging now. But we didn't really expect that to happen.

[Lord Hitchcock]

22 hours ago, Walshington said:

Fellas, fellas, FELLAS!

 

There IS a timeline out there for the curious.  Apparently, it goes like this:

 

1.  Jack Layton attacks LN, I *think* from some other AA.  I was not...er -- in a position to see this transpire, but it seems reasonable and I don't doubt it.

2.  Methrage eschews diplomacy and declares on Kashmir.  LN is NOT a protectorate of NG last I checked.

3. COBRA, a Kush protectorate, joins in the battle of their own freewill -- declaring on LN.

4. Confederatio Aesir, a Non Grata protectorate, joins in the battle of their own freewill -- declares on Kashmir.

5.  Duderonomy sends his thesis to an editor, who is impressed by the groundbreaking theories on Lulzism within.

6.  Non Grata enters against Kashmir,  The stated reasons are: 1) messing with their OD partner (assumed to be Seven Days in the Son or the German equivalent)

     2) Messing with our protectorate (presumably CA, although they jumped in like COBRA did of their own freewill).

7.  A bunch of other people DoW, including Last Call in defense of Kashmir.

8. Hartfw continues to wear his "Former Argent Minister" sig instead of the new, badass "Cowboys" sig, which someone worked SO hard on, despite the fact that  the lack of its presence can ONLY be seen as hurtful and triggering.

9. DMFA, a protectorate of Kashmir, attacked by Non Grata.

10.  Duderonomy's thesis approved -- Bob never the same.

 

 

You forgot the prequel where margrave was talking about ruining caustic

[Franz Ferdinand]

@Walshington, you have a good amount of work ahead of you to get the wiki up to date.

[Auctor]

22 hours ago, Walshington said:

Fellas, fellas, FELLAS!

 

There IS a timeline out there for the curious.  Apparently, it goes like this:

 

1.  Jack Layton attacks LN, I *think* from some other AA.  I was not...er -- in a position to see this transpire, but it seems reasonable and I don't doubt it.

2.  Methrage eschews diplomacy and declares on Kashmir.  LN is NOT a protectorate of NG last I checked.

3. COBRA, a Kush protectorate, joins in the battle of their own freewill -- declaring on LN.

4. Confederatio Aesir, a Non Grata protectorate, joins in the battle of their own freewill -- declares on Kashmir.

5.  Duderonomy sends his thesis to an editor, who is impressed by the groundbreaking theories on Lulzism within.

6.  Non Grata enters against Kashmir,  The stated reasons are: 1) messing with their OD partner (assumed to be Seven Days in the Son or the German equivalent)

     2) Messing with our protectorate (presumably CA, although they jumped in like COBRA did of their own freewill).

7.  A bunch of other people DoW, including Last Call in defense of Kashmir.

8. Hartfw continues to wear his "Former Argent Minister" sig instead of the new, badass "Cowboys" sig, which someone worked SO hard on, despite the fact that  the lack of its presence can ONLY be seen as hurtful and triggering.

9. DMFA, a protectorate of Kashmir, attacked by Non Grata.

10.  Duderonomy's thesis approved -- Bob never the same.

 

 

Just to point out, Layton in point of fact hit initially from the Kashmir AA. Whether he was doing this at the behest of some other AA he truly had in his heart might be open to question.

[Franz Ferdinand]

1 minute ago, Auctor said:

 

Just to point out, Layton in point of fact hit initially from the Kashmir AA. Whether he was doing this at the behest of some other AA he truly had in his heart might be open to question.

The War Jesus branch, if I recall correctly.

[Lord Hitchcock]

2 minutes ago, Franz Ferdinand said:

The War Jesus branch, if I recall correctly.

 

Too bad the name doesn't suit the members

[Walshington]

15 minutes ago, Franz Ferdinand said:

@Walshington, you have a good amount of work ahead of you to get the wiki up to date.

 

Well this was supposed to be more or less a timeline of the protectorate involvement, not a blow by blow of the entire war.

[Franz Ferdinand]

1 minute ago, Lord Hitchcock said:

 

Too bad the name doesn't suit the members

As an entity they were effective however ultimately such a grouping would end up being used as fodder for an opportunistic CB. I will them all the best in future.