SNX-Animalz Agreement - Cancellation

[The Zigur]

We were so close.

 

lol my bad :psyduck:

[Alexio15]

We were so close.

Why oh merciless god why?

On a side note what's it matter that the nap has cancelled. As far as I can tell animalz haven't really got an issue with the given reasons. So all in all it seems fair.

[Sephiroth]

We were so close

Junka had to say straight up lies in respose to pretty much every post I've made to correct him.

 

He breaks  the treaty and accusses aNiMaLz of breaking by not restrictive my free speach; despite it being writtten by Junka and not including it.

 

Regardless, a tech farm loses its value if it gets themselves into unneeded wars & can make ownership more trouble than its worth. I trust WC wouldn't follow SNX into the war if they attack us again, also SNX isn't a serious threat on their own. So if SNX was foolish enough to attack again, it would just signal the beginning of their move from Brown. The part where he makes clear he's breaking a treaty is in the OP, unless Junka wants to argue in support of absurd positions which involve the LPC I would ignore him. The promise was also based on me leaving him along if he stopped lieing about the LPC and making new threads to spread his propaganda. 

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sephiroth

[The Zigur]

 

Ok dude, I treated your statements with all the diplomatic dignity I can muster, have fun with your perpetual wars and empty threats.

[Sephiroth]

 

I expressed my intent to Animalz that if they desire our treaty to upgrade, they should work to moderate your eye-stabbing political opinions, as your posts represent the formal stance of LPCN. They have been unwilling or unable to do so, and are unwilling to cut ties with LPCN, we have no reason to upgrade. Furthermore, their escalation against TSO without proper attempt at mediation (violating article II), and demands for reparations are not something we are willing to accept as an NAP partner.

 

Here is just one of your offensive statements made just a few days ago:

 

 

 

We have zero reason to allow the NAP to stand when you make these arrogant statements.

This what I heard,'

 

 Hey brother just a heads up on what is happening over here. TSO attacked us out of the blue, and when RUKUNU asked for reps he was denied, so we attacked. 

 

TSO deserves to get hit back when suddenly attack an alliance and refusing to make any amends. You supporting TSO's attacks on a NAP partner is really messed up actually. Its the LPC's right to decide how long the war should continue when the defender if no reps are offered. Not everyone is a push over and laughs it off as good times when people raid you of nowhere showing zero respect.

 

That you're not taking a negative postion towards TSO for hitting someone you signed a NAP with,, but instead are backing shows there is no meaning to treaties except trying to bind others to agreement you have intention to uphold. You will likely begin turning on your friends in Doom when you are done trying to orchestrate a war you don't need to fight in against aNiMaLz.

 

Throw all loyalty and principles out the window, then destruction while isolated is likely the end SNX will meat. You've destroyed SNX's credibiilty in so many ways, especially in making clear treaties are just words which disappear as soon as its said. You don't owe anyone anything, there is some excuse you can likely find for turning on each of your allies eventually.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sephiroth

[Gibsonator21]

Can we just, not? For once?

[Alexio15]

This what I heard,'
 
 Hey brother just a heads up on what is happening over here. TSO attacked us out of the blue, and when RUKUNU asked for reps he was denied, so we attacked. 
 
TSO deserves to get hit back when suddenly attack an alliance and refusing to make any amends. You supporting TSO's attacks on a NAP partner is really messed up actually. Its the LPC's right to decide how long the war should continue when the defender if no reps are offered. Not everyone is a push over and laughs it off as good times when people raid you of nowhere showing zero respect.
 
That you're not taking a negative postion towards TSO for hitting someone you signed a NAP with,, but instead are backing shows there is no meaning to treaties except trying to bind others to agreement you have intention to uphold. You will likely begin turning on your friends in Doom when you are done trying to orchestrate a war you don't need to fight in against aNiMaLz.
 
Throw all loyalty and principles out the window, then destruction while isolated is likely the end SNX will meat. You've destroyed SNX's credibiilty in so many ways, especially in making clear treaties are just words which disappear as soon as its said. You don't owe anyone anything, there is some excuse you can likely find for turning on each of your allies eventually.

Just throwing my two cents in but isn't a NAP a non aggression pact between two alliances. In this instance snx and animalz. That doesn't really mean they should aid or defend each other. It's there to stop them hitting each other, and is normally open to cancellation if one or both parties feel it is no longer working. But is also no a signal that war or hostile actions will follow straight after.

[the rebel]

It's there to stop them hitting each other, and is normally open to cancellation if one or both parties feel it is no longer working. But is also no a signal that war or hostile actions will follow straight after.

I'd tend to agree with you regarding permanent NAP's that would require a cancellation, but a short term temporary one that expires.

Why the rush?

[The Zigur]

From my perspective, the NAP was effectively a strategic check against aggressive military actions by both Doom and LPCN; because Animalz is the bulk of LPCN's low-tier membership, and SNX represents a significant chunk of Doomsphere's lower tier. The implications were that if any of our allies attacked Methrage and co for his stupidity, SNX would abstain from supporting them in honor of the NAP, and therefore our allies low-tier could be flooded by Animalz without our involvement. This check is no longer in place.

 

Everyone knows Methrage will be methrage, so it was a test for Animalz to see whether they would make a reliable future upgraded treaty partner, since they desired an ODoAP. The fact that they were unwilling/unable to contain Methrage's posting as LPCN leader, or separate from him, just reinforced this decision aside from escalating against our ally and demanding reps.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Immortan Junka

[Sephiroth]

From my perspective, the NAP was effectively a strategic check against aggressive military actions by both Doom and LPCN; because Animalz is the bulk of LPCN's low-tier membership, and SNX represents a significant chunk of Doomsphere's lower tier. The implications were that if any of our allies attacked Methrage and co for his stupidity, SNX would abstain from supporting them in honor of the NAP, and therefore our allies low-tier could be flooded by Animalz without our involvement. This check is no longer in place.

 

Everyone knows Methrage will be methrage, so it was a test for Animalz to see whether they would make a reliable future upgraded treaty partner, since they desired an ODoAP. The fact that they were unwilling/unable to contain Methrage's posting as LPCN leader, or separate from him, just reinforced this decision aside from escalating against our ally and demanding reps.

Youre an idiot if you think your betrayals  on treaties, attacks on aNiMaLz & your poor performance in leading SNX will suddenly make you more popular.

 

What holding back our Growth is yourself and your allies keep attacking in the middle of this war with GOONS. This announcement was obviously timed to coincide with TSO attacking aNiMaLz,, in order to show your support of that.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sephiroth

[The Zigur]

Unless you think we are the illuminati orchestrating every war you get yourself into, maybe you need to take some personal responsibility and look in the mirror.

[Sephiroth]

Unless you think we are the illuminati orchestrating every war you get yourself into, maybe you need to take some personal responsibility and look in the mirror.

You clearly listed aNiMaLz defending themselves against TSO as being among the reasons for this. So it doesn't require genius to be a reactionist.

 

You see TSO, who you like, attack aNiMalz and you cancel on aNiMaLz to try impressiing TSO or proving to Doom Sphere the words on a treaty doesn't matter..

 

So the impression I've got is you decided to announce you're not honoring the treaty you wrote yourself, since you want to be free to jump on any bandwaggon you want if the war goes global.

 

You try portraying Doom Sphere as being more united than it is, since you wish  it was the case. Although they aren't and you're not even on the same color as them. You're a tech farm as your value to them, if you think they care about you beyond that; you are mistaken. If you were smart you wouldn't have put all your eggs in basket. By now you've aliened everyone outside of Doom Sphere & the majority of Doom Sphere doesn't care about you if. 

 

When you're experiencing another shark week, nobody will be as united with you as you think. You claim to be for a stronger brown team, but all your allies are on different colors? Why stay on Brown when your allies are elsehwere?

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sephiroth

[Sir Kindle]

Let me clear a few things up. Since SNX didn't mind quoting from our private conversation I trust they won't mind my quoting of it as well. I came to the OWF and received this group message started by Galerion:
 
"Sent 01 February 2016 - 09:43 PM

Hi Sir Kindle

What with the raids on TSO who are part of TCA?"
 
I responded:
 
"Sent Yesterday, 04:01 AM


We are not raiding them. They attacked us first. I don't know all the details, but I do know their member nation XP Mai hit three of our brothers first, and for no reason. For more information I suggest contacting RUKUNU via in game PM."

Then Immortan Chimed in with:

"From section II of the SNX-Animalz Agreement:

II. The signatories agree to not initiate aggressive military action against the other's allies. An attempt should be made to resolve all disputes diplomatically before conflict escalates.

I wanted to contact you because I do think that it looks like a TSO nation engaged against Animalz aggressively, and I think it would have been fair to react defensively against the aggressor nation. But did you guys attempt diplomatic resolution with TSO?

I spoke with TSO government the other day about an unrelated issue and found they are fairly active. Generally engaging in a full blitz without an attempt at diplomatic resolution is not what I would personally consider a civilized or stability-promoting norm, especially if it involves a treaty partners ally.

It does seem the terms of the treaty have been violated and I was hopeful you would find a way to redress the situation (or inform me if things are not as they seem)."

I replied with:

Sent Yesterday, 06:23 AM

You have no need to be concerned about a treaty violation. Like I posted above their alliance was contacted, and diplomatic resolution was attempted first. I strongly advise you to contact Supreme Warlord RUKUNU if you would like further details.

I also was not aware of you and TSO being allies. Is that that you are treaty partners with TSO or the entire TCA?"

Galerion said:

"SnX is part of TCA and plays a significant role within the organization."

Immortan stated:

"Sent Yesterday, 07:16 PM

There are a number of particular grievances we have that are related to incidents taking place during the course of our Non-Aggression Pact. These incidents, while not necessarily violating the letter of the treaty, certainly has not contributed to section III:

III. SNX and Animalz will consciously work towards improved political and economic relations on brown.

Things have not improved since the treaty took effect, and you have failed to effectively influence LPCN to achieve this degree. In specific, I noted that if Methrage is to continue to lead LPCN, his discussion should be observed and moderated by Animalz. If any effort has been undertaken by Animalz, it is not influential enough to stop Methrage from posting more garbage than ever on the forums.

(If you want a list of examples, I can compile it though it will take some time).

We have been discussing Methrages comments for a while and have come to feel that the NAP is beginning to have a toxic value to our Imperium, because he constantly states that SNX is the weaker party. This unacceptable rhetoric devalues our merited military reputation abroad, and convinces people that SNX really is afraid. Furthermore, another noted personality, The Rebel, has also joined Limitless Nexus, which will make Animalz influence even more tenuous.

Because Animalz has not contributed positively to section II and section III of the treaty, we feel the NAP has no value and will be cancelling. We will not allow LPCN to use the treaty as a shield to hide behind while throwing poop in our general vicinity.

However, SNX has no issue with Animalz itself, and I still believe there is potential in your alliance. We will not publicly air your dirty laundry unless you and your friends do so first. Because we do not want Animalz to be left hanging as it were, we will be willing to discuss a new treaty that will create a stable environment that a NAP with LPCN cannot.

Although we have to clear such a treaty with our allies first, the new treaty would involve the (minimal) following conditions:

I. Protectorate arrangement in which SNX handles all foreign affairs

II. Access to the Interstellar Tech Program and other SNX programs

III. A promise to coordinate with us on all military operations

IV. Nullification of all political ties to Methrage and LPCN.

This protectorate would provide the stability Animalz needs to grow, while removing our current toxic connection to methrage. If this is interesting to you at all, please let me know so I can get started on writing a draft!"

I said back to him:

"Sent Yesterday, 08:30 PM

Ok. The treaty cancellation is accepted by aNiMaLz.

I'm not sure how you want to resolve the TSO situation. They hit us first, and we want to get paid for damages. If we don't get paid we will punish them for their arrogance, and the audacity they displayed by laying their hands on a brother.

Just as in the TAO situation you can either stay out, or jump in. I'd rather we stay cordial, but if you insist on defending TSO who was clearly in the wrong militarily I can't stop you. I suggest you just let it pass and we all go our separate ways. aNiMaLz has no intentions on initiating an attack on SNX (as in the TAO) situation, but history usually repeats itself, so we will be expecting an SNX attack unless you assure me here the situation will be otherwise.

I'm sorry we couldn't work together to build a better brown, but you and Methrage just can't get a long. We stayed out of all your bickering in hopes you two would be able to chill, and work together to solidify brown. Unfortunately that's not the case, and we will remain neutral in your and LN's affairs.

And finally I wish SNX good luck. I met some pretty cool people there I wouldn't have met if we didn't have that period of treaty. I am grateful for that. I believe since SNX has sway over at TCA they should use that sway to convince TSO just to pay RUKUNU so no further damage is done, and so we can all move on."

And it ended with Immortan saying:

"Sent Yesterday, 08:34 PM

SNX currently has no plans to engage, good luck with LPCN and co, just remember we offered an alternative and wish you no ill-will."

So that is how that went down. As far as the reasoning of our attacks on TSO is somehow a violation of the treaty is puzzling, but a lot is here on Bob. They attacked us first, and we contacted their government to work out the situation before it got heated. Our offer of peace for reps was snubbed, so we attacked. It's basically a black and white situation. Also we didn't just start going crazy on them, we turned up the heat after they refused to pay reps for an unjust, and unwarranted attack on us. Anyway you slice it TSO are aggressors who refused a reasonable offer for peace. aNiMaLz will not be making any further statements regarding the rhyme or reason behind our attacks on TSO. It's been explained very clearly once.

Although aNiMaLz whole heartily desired to treaty up with SNX in order to build a better brown where we all could prosper more we couldn't accept their terms for a treaty. First having a protectorate treaty is something we would never consider. We have never needed protection, have never asked for protection, and frankly believe signing protectorates is a !@#$%* move, and screams to the world "I can't fight on my own, so if you mess with me I'm going to go cry instead of fight". So of course on that condition alone we would never agree to treaty up, but also the request to betray our most loyal, and dearest friend is a ridiculous request. We don't care if every alliance on Bob hates Methrage he is our brother. He has fought a long side us well over a year, and has spent countless hours in the trenches with us. It's a logical fallacy to believe that just because the majority of loud mouths do not like someone that person shouldn't be liked. Dude has proved himself as a warrior, and a loyal friend, so asking us to jump ship is just something that would never happen. I believe we did try to create a positive atmosphere between LN and SNX (something we are accused of neglecting) through the private thread I started between us. I initiated open dialogue regarding what we could do to bury the hatchet and work towards the good of brown. Immortan and Methrage couldn't get a long so we let it ride.

 

Anyway that's the story. I hope we can continue to be peaceful for the sake of brown, and perhaps be friends. But I just wanted to make clear what the situation here really is, and that aNiMaLz did not violate our treaty, we never have violated a treaty.

 

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sir Kindle

[Sephiroth]

lol @ Junka trying to conspire behind my back & make those claimis when he's the most destablising force on Brown.

 

He only moved to Brown when joining SNX, so he had no loyalty or connection to the Brown Team before switching since the alliance he was taking over was already on Brown. since then all his action placed the desires of alliances not on Brown as outweighing everything else by far. He's been consistently against any kind of Brown Unity agreement, since he doesn't think loyalty to DK will allow him to be loyal to the Brown Team.

 

Junka I've offered you Brown Unity 0ffers many times, but every time you rejected it because  your loyalties were to another team first. So cut the BS on favoring Brown Unity, its quite clear you're just trying to cause division by whispering BS in people's ears. Also a protectorate with you wouldn't mean anything, y0u can hardly protect your own alliance (or you need DK for that :P )

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sephiroth

[The Zigur]

That is correct, we don't absurdly place the rest of brown team above our actual treaty partners and interests. 99% of Bob clearly operates in the wrong, and you are the edgy savior the world needs to save team politics from evil non-color treaties.

[Sephiroth]

Also anyone who feels like doing something for good of the  Brown Team & recognized as Hero;Junka is now considered an enemy. traitor & spy as far as the Brown Team is concerned. He's been trying to cause destabilization on the team seemingly starting not long after he took over SNX. Whoever is fighting him when he makes the siwtch off Brown will earn a special prize. We can't have SNX under Junka's leadership constantly trying to cause division on the team.

 

How fast he flipped from railing against DBDC with every thread to praising them shows how weak and easily changeable his convictions are Junka you are not welcome on Brown, you are far to happy to betray and try sabotaging this team/

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sephiroth

[Rayvon]

Also anyone who feels like doing something for good of the  Brown Team & recognized as Hero;Junka is now consider an enemy. traitor & spie as far as the Brown Team is concerned. He's been trying to cause destabilization on the team seemingly starting not long after he took over. Whoever is fighting him when he makes the siwtch off Brown will earn a special prize. We can't have SNX under Junak's leadership constantly trying to cause division the team.
 
How fast he flipped from failing against DBDC with every thread to praising them shows how weak and easily changeable his convictions are Junka you are not welcome on Brown, you have far to happy to betray and try sabotaging this team/

Is this all of Brown, has been conferred with everyone including GATO? Or is this just you spouting more self-importance "as brown sphere" as you attempt to force someone off the sphere by attempting to bribe others to do your dirty work for you where you lack the capability to carry forward?

[Sephiroth]

Is this all of Brown, has been conferred with everyone including GATO? Or is this just you spouting more self-importance "as brown sphere" as you attempt to force someone off the sphere by attempting to bribe others to do your dirty work for you where you lack the capability to carry forward?

Junka has been conspirining to turn others against me for months now, while being unwilling to face me directly. I know he would never be brave enough to take up one of my defensive slots, but I think you know he deserves to be knocked around a bit.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sephiroth

[Rayvon]

Junka has been conspirining to turn others against me for months now, while being unwilling to face me directly. I know he would never be brave enough to take up one of my defensive slots, but I think you know he deserves to be knocked around a bit.

So your answer to my question, this is just you spouting off trying to get others to do your dirty work where you lack the capability. Just clarifying. 

[The Zigur]

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=562212

 

Send your five star general, he's in my range and even has a HNMS.

[Sephiroth]

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=562212

 

Send your five star general, he's in my range and even has a HNMS.

I'm fighting a nation with way more tech, infra & cash than; you might as well hit me since I'm who you decided was your enemy. Although seeing your nation so small it can'r reach me despite over half a year nuclear warfare, did you already get beat up & is that a regular occurrence for you?  Or do you stay in  the micro range since you get hit as soon as you stick your head up?

 

Also if SNX doesn't want to sink with Junka, who already made kt clear treaties don't mean anything to him; they should begin working on getting a competent leader in place. Galerion could pull it off.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sephiroth

[The Zigur]

Is this all of Brown, has been conferred with everyone including GATO? Or is this just you spouting more self-importance "as brown sphere"

 

The funny part is that's exactly what I was making fun of in the post right before that

[Sephiroth]

 

The funny part is that's exactly what I was making fun of in the post right before that

You must be claiming your stronger than GATO since you say join for a Stonger Brown Team today. GATO will never take SNX as a serious alliance with you in charge, you're like a time bomb. Not only do you embolden enemies, you also conspire against those who consider you a friend and supported your rise to leadership in SNX when everyone else shouted you down.

 

One way or another, karma wijll get you really good. Many have been wanting an excuse to hit you, now any who do can have all offensives against the LPC forgiven & a Senator wiling to unsanction them whenever they need it.. Many nations are bored and want to be free, what if taking your head was all it took have total freedom & support from many?

 

I used to be among those who gave you the biggetst benefit of the doubt. Assume your lame fake news threads were parody on purpose, assuming you weren't a complete traitor when you allied DK.

 

Now I know & I don't think there is anyone who really has nice things to say about you other some of your brainwashed yes men in the SNX. You will die a thousand deaths, SNX will only die once if they continue playing along with your fascist take over . You are no longer comptetent to be leader, although most poeple already knew that longer than me. Which isi why Atlas and GATO cancelled with SNX over you taking over..

[ShamWOW]

Took all of 3 weeks and a few days for this treaty to come and go.

Damn, I had 4 weeks in the pool. Just missed it.

[Neo Uruk]

Jesus Christ, Methrage, do you have to beg others to hit everybody you designate an enemy? Just do it on your own or at least ask behind closed doors for fuck's sake.