SNX-Animalz Agreement

[Sephiroth]

This is just wonderful to watch

 

:popcorn:  :popcorn:  :popcorn:

I fixed his error, then edits it back in. The conversation he created for peace talk was even titled white peace by him, so its an odd claim to make by him.

 

Although if I use his definition.

 

LN vs Kashmir (1st War) - Victory for LN

LN vs GOONS (Sadism) - Victory for LN

LN vs III% - Victory for LN

LN vs SRA - Victory for LN

LN vs PPO - Victory for LN

LN vs Kashmir (Second War) - Victory for LN

LN vs everyone else we've ever fought - Victory for LN

 

Every war we've been in happens to be a victory, I could have a long list of victories listed on my wiki if I lower my standards of what I post as victories to including white peace. Maybe it wouldn't be a such a bad idea, if I didn't care about destroying my credibility.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Sephiroth

[The Zigur]

The treaty is not a classical white peace if the terms include not engaging in conduct that initiated our response in the first place. This is why I clearly said during negotiations that there will be no peace until a concrete agreement is written. This can be reviewed by all parties invited to the negotiations.

It is "white" in that we never demanded reparations or any sort of silliness, but it was a victory because we managed to negotiate terms that will prevent a repeat casus belli, regardless of your attempt to sabotage the negotiations after we included you.

There is nothing dishonorable in losing a war, I have lost wars before. What's dishonorable is being a sore loser. Right now you have nothing to offer Animalz besides your personal company, thus you try to stir them up against me for simply stating the truth. Furthermore you have the audacity to deface the wiki of the Imperium twice. This will be rectified without violating our treaty with Animalz.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Immortan Junka

[the rebel]

Defacing your wiki! You best declare on him then haven't you?

[The Zigur]

Defacing your wiki! You best declare on him then haven't you?

 

I'll explain the situation for the general audience:

 

SNX takes its treaties seriously therefore direct offensive action against Methrage is not on the table so long as this treaty stands, and so long as Animalz remains allied to Seph. This is no doubt the origin of much of his boldness, but none of his actions represent a serious threat to the Imperium. We will take passive measures to counter his actions until he decides he is ready to join the larger, civilized brown sphere community.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Immortan Junka

[Stonewall14]

 

I'll explain the situation for the general audience:

 

SNX takes its treaties seriously therefore direct offensive action against Methrage is not on the table so long as this treaty stands, and so long as Animalz remains allied to Seph. This is no doubt the origin of much of his boldness, but none of his actions represent a serious threat to the Imperium. We will take passive measures to counter his actions until he decides he is ready to join the larger, civilized brown sphere community.

TAO will support this cause but TAO has no proclivity against using military force if conditions warrant it as methrage has expressed a willingness to attack Doom on several occasions and we will not hesitate to take preemptive strikes should we feel it necessary.. :ehm:

[the rebel]

Preemptive chest thumping on the OWF, I take it.

[Master Hakai]

That's awesome man, I've also won every battle I lost, and my favorite basketball team the philadelphia sixers are undefeated this year because they actually won all the games they lost if you really think about it!

[Stonewall14]

Preemptive chest thumping on the OWF, I take it.

Preemptive attacks are always on the table, you can call it what you want but if threat is implied from some parties that is a sure thing it will happen... :ehm:

[Sephiroth]

The treaty is not a classical white peace if the terms include not engaging in conduct that initiated our response in the first place. This is why I clearly said during negotiations that there will be no peace until a concrete agreement is written. This can be reviewed by all parties invited to the negotiations.

It is "white" in that we never demanded reparations or any sort of silliness, but it was a victory because we managed to negotiate terms that will prevent a repeat casus belli, regardless of your attempt to sabotage the negotiations after we included you.

There is nothing dishonorable in losing a war, I have lost wars before. What's dishonorable is being a sore loser. Right now you have nothing to offer Animalz besides your personal company, thus you try to stir them up against me for simply stating the truth. Furthermore you have the audacity to deface the wiki of the Imperium twice. This will be rectified without violating our treaty with Animalz.

I fixed your error once, I didn't bother modifying it again. The treaty prevents you from attacking aNiMaLz again or their allies, so how is it not just as big of a victory for aNiMaLz? The treaty is equal going both ways. I consider the war a victory for aNiMaLz, since now you can no longer attack LPC members.

 

Also you left COBRA out to dry when they were hit by GOONS &  didn't have their back then. What can you offer aNiMaLz? Publically trying to destroy their undefeated record by trying to spin an equal & two way treaty as a win? Good luck with that.

 

As to your comment on being part of the wider civilized Brown Team, all SNX's allies on Brown dropped you guys over you becoming their new leader. So funny you would say that.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Sephiroth

[The Zigur]

I fixed your error once, I didn't bother modifying it again. The treaty prevents you from attacking aNiMaLz again or their allies, so how is it not just as big of a victory for aNiMaLz? The treaty is equal going both ways. I consider the war a victory for aNiMaLz, since now you can no longer attack LPC members.

 

Also you left COBRA out to dry when they were hit by GOONS &  didn't have their back then. What can you offer aNiMaLz? Publically trying to destroy their undefeated record by trying to spin an equal & two way treaty as a win? Good luck with that.

 

As to your comment on being part of the wider civilized Brown Team, all SNX's allies on Brown dropped you guys over you becoming their new leader. So funny you would say that.

 

1. SNX never in history initiated aggression against LPCN, our agreement to not attack Animalz allies represents the status quo for us. This is not true of LPCN which initiated aggression against our ally TAO.
2. We never had a treaty with COBRA.
3. LSF has remained an SNX ally since the treaty was announced by myself as Senator in 2014.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Immortan Junka

[Sephiroth]

 

 

1. SNX never in history initiated aggression against LPCN, our agreement to not attack Animalz allies represents the status quo for us. This is not true of LPCN which initiated aggression against our ally TAO.
2. We never had a treaty with COBRA.
3. LSF has remained an SNX ally since the treaty was announced by myself as Senator in 2014.

 

You attacked aNiMaLz & now are trying to portray them as losers for agreeing to a NAP with you as part of the white peace. After you attacked them, aNiMaLz were very specific when discussing any peace with you guys to me they wanted a NAP as part of the peace. So aNiMaLz won everything they wanted in that exchange with you, only thing short of it being an official victory is the negotiated outcome was white peace rather than a surrender from you guys. I have no worries about aNiMaLz turning on the LPC, their loyalty has never been in doubt. 

 

Did you ask aNiMaLz yet if they want the wiki changed to reflect the agreed upon white peace? Also why call it white peace in negotiations to get them to agree, then call it something else after they agreed?

 

The question come when this expires is whether you can improve relations with the LPC, dishonesty about the agreed upon peace isn't the way to do it.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Sephiroth

[USMC123]

This is me agreeing with Methrage.

 

Ow my brain.

[The Zigur]

As I stated during the negotiations:

 

Anyway hopefully it makes sense to all involved why I turned down a ceasefire until peace is established, because I have no intention on agreeing to peace and letting all of you out of anarchy to rebuild and repeat aggression in the future. If You can't agree to this tiny concession so your allies can get peace and rebuild Sephiroth, then I will have to exclude you and LPCN as a political concept from these negotiations.

 

So Seph doesn't confuse people by repeating the idea that SNX initiated aggression, here is the sequence of military events:

 

• SNX and TAO sign ODoAP in early December
• Sir Kindle attacks Biaxx of TAO 12/25/2015 3:45:43 PM
• I send military aid to Biaxx in response
• Sir Kindle calls in help from other Animalz members and an LN ghost
• SNX engages in Operation Dog Pound on December 30

Edited January 15, 2016 by Immortan Junka

[Sephiroth]

Sir Kindle told me he wanted a NAP before you even created that conversation titled white peace, so you're mistaken if you think they agreed to the NAP in order to get peace.

 

Also I have no idea why you're quoting one of your responses to us rejecting your idea of the entire LPC signing a NAP with you.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Sephiroth

[The Zigur]

Are you serious right now? You do realize ten other people have access to those negotiations right?

 

You refused to budge from your standard libertarian nonsense (no raiding on brown lol, as if we were going to change our policies when we won this war). Which is why we simply cut you out of the equation and we treatied Animalz directly.

 

You need to realize that some AA leaders are too dignified to trash your nonsense methrage but I'm not one of them.

[Sephiroth]

Are you serious right now? You do realize ten other people have access to those negotiations right?

 

You refused to budge from your standard libertarian nonsense (no raiding on brown lol, as if we were going to change our policies when we won this war). Which is why we simply cut you out of the equation and we treatied Animalz directly.

 

You need to realize that some AA leaders are too dignified to trash your nonsense methrage but I'm not one of them.

You were only fighting aNiMaLz, signing a NAP on behalf of the entire LPC was unneccecary for peace. You guys signing a NAP with aNiMaLz alone was sufficient in our view, which is what you eventually did. There was no reason for the entire LPC to sign a treaty when the majority of signatories weren't fighting you.

 

I even said why not just sign a NAP with aNiMaLz alone very early on, which is what we wanted.

 

Edit; Also you never won, you were asking me to try talking to aNiMaLz about peace long before aNiMaLz sent me their first message regarding peace. So going by who was asking for peace first, aNiMaLz was the clear winner. You wanted peace more than them, so your spin is ridiculous. Repeating a lie over and over again doesn't make it true.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Sephiroth

[Stonewall14]

You were only fighting aNiMaLz, signing a NAP on behalf of the entire LPC was unneccecary for peace. You guys signing a NAP with aNiMaLz alone was sufficient in our view, which is what you eventually did. There was no reason for the entire LPC to sign a treaty when the majority of signatories weren't fighting you.

 

I even said why not just sign a NAP with aNiMaLz alone very early on, which is what we wanted.

 

Edit; Also you never won, you were asking me to try talking to aNiMaLz about peace long before aNiMaLz sent me their first message regarding peace. So going by who was asking for peace first, aNiMaLz was the clear winner. You wanted peace more than them, so your spin is ridiculous. Repeating a lie over and over again doesn't make it true.

haha lpcn is a pipe dream and animalz is the majority of lpcn you fool, other than that is is you and your 5 cratered nations and Sigrun who is fed up with your insane clown act as well if her privates talks and OWF postings are genuine... :v:

[Sephiroth]

haha lpcn is a pipe dream and animalz is the majority of lpcn you fool, other than that is is you and your 5 cratered nations and Sigrun who is fed up with your insane clown act as well if her privates talks and OWF postings are genuine... :v:

With all the alliances you've turned on who gave you a chance, I think its you who should be worried about those around you being fed up. First you turn on Kashmir, then LN, then DK, then aNiMaLz & who knows what direction the wind will take you next. When you keep burning bridges and biting the hands which feed you, all you're reduced to is an expendable pawn. Also the LPC is doing fine & I doubt Sigrun would bother speaking with you.

 

Be careful not to step out of line & about making enemies; I doubt many would risk much for someone with your track record if you cause a mess.

[Stonewall14]

With all the alliances you've turned on who gave you a chance, I think its you who should be worried about those around you being fed up. First you turn on Kashmir, then LN, then DK, then aNiMaLz & who knows what direction the wind will take you next. When you keep burning bridges and biting the hands which feed you, all you're reduced to is an expendable pawn. Also the LPC is doing fine & I doubt Sigrun would bother speaking with you.

 

Be careful not to step out of line & about making enemies; I doubt many would risk much for someone with your track record if you cause a mess.

Your so full of delusion and fear reality so you lie to yourself and to everyone and believe yourself the whole time lol...TAO and our allies are more unified than you think and our main common denominator is dislike and loathe of you and lpcn... :v:

[Alex0827a]

Now, I'm not going to bother to follow this and turn it into an argument (can't be bothered, honestly), but a couple of things stuck out to me.

 

1. The general consensus is that this is white peace. That, in the eyes of pretty much everyone, does not make it a victory. Victory is when the other guy surrenders, nothing less. If I agree to white peace, and the other guy says he won, I'm going to go back to fighting because, apparently, we haven't reached a real resolution. So on that count, I'd agree with Methrage.

 

2. Since Methrage has been going on the whole "Brown Unity" binge, I think his mention of a lack of raiding on brown actually makes sense. It's not exactly unity if we're all attacking each other. Just a thought.

 

Those are just a couple thoughts on this - I don't care what the outcome is, as TSC isn't involved, but just maybe an outsider's perspective would stop the repetitive arguing. My good deed for the day, so to speak.

 

Edit:  Totally didn't realize this topic was as old as it is. Sorry folks, my mistake :/

Edited January 21, 2016 by Alex0827a

[Lord Hitchcock]

This has not been signed off by Lady Dakota, where is the BC when it's needed

[The Zigur]

2. Since Methrage has been going on the whole "Brown Unity" binge, I think his mention of a lack of raiding on brown actually makes sense. It's not exactly unity if we're all attacking each other. Just a thought.

The Imperium itself is unity on brown. I feel no need to promise non-aggression with elements of brown not aligned with us.

[Sephiroth]

The Imperium itself is unity on brown. I feel no need to promise non-aggression with elements of brown not aligned with us.

The LPC promotes unity on the team & non-aggression against Brown nations without just cause; which is why I was only interested in having the LPC sign a treaty with a non-LPC entity if it was to promote those ideals.

 

We use our Senate Powers not in self interest, but for the benefit of the team. If the LPC were to sign a treaty, it would be for the benefit of the team as well. Something like the OP is what gets signed between two alliances upon agreeing to white peace, but its not really color treaty material. :P

Edited January 24, 2016 by Sephiroth

[Rayvon]

The LPC promotes unity on the team & non-aggression against Brown nations without just cause; which is why I was only interested in having the LPC sign a treaty with a non-LPC entity if it was to promote those ideals.

 

We use our Senate Powers not in self interest, but for the benefit of the team. If the LPC were to sign a treaty, it would be for the benefit of the team as well. Something like the OP is what gets signed between two alliances upon agreeing to white peace, but its not really color treaty material. :P

 

If not for your own petty needs, why do you need the Imperium to sign with you when you both have "open" non-aggression pacts to the sphere? Can you not non-aggressively exist with each other without Imperium signing your document? You refuse to sign his. Stop pissing on each other. This is why we got smart and left brown, you're all shit there. 

[Sephiroth]

 

If not for your own petty needs, why do you need the Imperium to sign with you when you both have "open" non-aggression pacts to the sphere? Can you not non-aggressively exist with each other without Imperium signing your document? You refuse to sign his. Stop pissing on each other. This is why we got smart and left brown, you're all !@#$ there. 

We don't and didn't sign the treaty with them. A regular NAP would have been pointless, so you're right about that. I only mentioned it in response to him bringing up one aspect of what I proposed in response to him wanting a treaty with the LPC. I don't see a need to further describe a proposal which was discussed briefly and never signed, so with everything clarified now I think this thread has run its course.

 

SNX & aNiMaLz fought, they agreed on white peace. Case closed.