Gibsonator21 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Are you still mad about Disorder bro? Anyway I'm aligned with Doom, not Oculus, and I've voiced opinions that conflict with Oculus policy so maybe it is the case that MI6 is in the situation it is in because of leadership issues. I like alot of people in MI6 but that doesn't mean their FA is on point. MI6 can come out of this conflict as the leader of a power sphere if it really wanted to, but I don't see it happening right now. You know nothing. Can you stop making these topics about how good of a leader you are? You took power in a lousy alliance and signed a protectorate and have made a few - just a few - positive steps forward. You've accomplished nothing. No one in MI6 would trade our positions, rolling or no rolling. If you'd like to discuss, PM me. This isn't the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 ITT- Junk still pissed that MI6 wants nothing to do with him so still works on trying to get MI6 to install him as leader... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleRena Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 ITT- Junk still pissed that MI6 wants nothing to do with him so still works on trying to get MI6 to install him as leader... I don't know who he is or the background history, can you drop me a PM to let me know this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opaque Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Er, well, no. That's why I said there are valid reasons for it too! Right, just saying you shouldn't appeal to precedent at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Are you still mad about Disorder bro? Anyway I'm aligned with Doom, not Oculus, and I've voiced opinions that conflict with Oculus policy so maybe it is the case that MI6 is in the situation it is in because of leadership issues. I like alot of people in MI6 but that doesn't mean their FA is on point. MI6 can come out of this conflict as the leader of a power sphere if it really wanted to, but I don't see it happening right now. Disorder has nothing to do with this, like it had nothing to do with you. And you nothing to do with this .... You have a point your trying to make ... Bro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Right, just saying you shouldn't appeal to precedent at all.Not saying it as justification, but people are acting like this hasn't happened several times in the not-so-distant past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 ITT- Junk still pissed that MI6 wants nothing to do with him so still works on trying to get MI6 to install him as leader... Your chance to prosper with myself at the helm is long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 But it was fine for NPO to ally with Umberalla who were spying on TPF at the time and tell us to deal with it? Your logic is flawed. No it's not. If TPF interpreted our new allies as their enemy, they were completely free to break with us and declare war on us when they wished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) No it's not. If TPF interpreted our new allies as their enemy, they were completely free to break with us and declare war on us when they wished. They question isn't "can" an alliance do something. It is "should". Surely you don't believe an alliance that burns for you for the majority of this world's existence should be tossed aside like a dirty tampon do you? Edited October 17, 2015 by Omniscient1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 They question isn't "can" an alliance do something. It is "should". Surely you don't believe an alliance that burns for you for the majority of this world's existence should be tossed aside like a dirty tampon do you? Exactly ... And they "should have" stayed true to their allies they'd been true to for so long - and oh wait, they did. They held the treaty and tried without walking away. Pacifica, no such deal. Their way or the highway .. Any ally of an Oculus member should be taking note of how easily anyone can be tossed aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Exactly ... And they "should have" stayed true to their allies they'd been true to for so long - and oh wait, they did. They held the treaty and tried without walking away. Pacifica, no such deal. Their way or the highway .. Any ally of an Oculus member should be taking note of how easily anyone can be tossed aside. The point of my post exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge X Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Hello everyone, No it's not. If TPF interpreted our new allies as their enemy, they were completely free to break with us and declare war on us when they wished. Old Dragon there is no need to twist what happened. We complained as it happened. I complained as it happened and so many assurances were given. So many lies told. They question isn't "can" an alliance do something. It is "should". Surely you don't believe an alliance that burns for you for the majority of this world's existence should be tossed aside like a dirty tampon do you? They do indeed believe in tossing anyone aside, we sacrificed, and sacrificed, and sacrificed. I spent thousands of hours working to dig us out of our political hole that I inherited when I took over as Leader of TPF. TCK got fed up after spending hundreds of hours doing the same thing and other realms called him. We did a good deal of the political digging that got NPO out of their hole. So many alliances only talked to them because I had assured them that they changed, because they had assured me that they changed. This dagger rides especially deep in my back. Exactly ... And they "should have" stayed true to their allies they'd been true to for so long - and oh wait, they did. They held the treaty and tried without walking away. Pacifica, no such deal. Their way or the highway .. Any ally of an Oculus member should be taking note of how easily anyone can be tossed aside. Every ally of Oculus should indeed take note. It is going to be a long dirty road. We didn't just accidently fall upon our reputation for tenacity. and Hello Rayvon. Good to see you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 "tenacity" You tapped out of defending pacifica after barely 4 weeks in your last war together. It might not have even been that long. Your tencacity, much like your loyalty is an absolute farce. Go back to sleep JudgeX, no one missed you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 "tenacity" You tapped out of defending pacifica after barely 4 weeks in your last war together. It might not have even been that long. Your tencacity, much like your loyalty is an absolute farce. Go back to sleep JudgeX, no one missed you. You realize that TPF lost what was it? 67%/75% of their NS during that "paltry" 4 weeks of war right? Yeah, no loyalty there not even when you damn near have your entire alliance burnt to the ground fighting to help your ally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) Judge: There is no twisting here. TPF and NPO over the last 8 years diverged. TPF chose its loyalties and we chose ours. We chose ours first, surely, but TPF could have come along with us, but they chose not to and got close to MI6 instead, something we couldn't tolerate, so we concluded our agreements.No big deal. However, it put you on the side of our enemy and that makes TPF our enemy as well. I have no regrets for something I cannot control and what I cannot control is TPF's course of action. It is sovereign, it plotted its own course and its own consequences in doing so.We are as much bound today by the honor debts of 8 years ago as we are the grudges of 8 years ago.Even the people in our respective groups have changed constituency massively since that time. You are not the same TPF, we are not the same NPO.I mean if you want to break with MI6 and come ally with us, speak to our coalition FA, maybe we can work something out. I'd gladly appreciate TPF's defection if it regrets its course of action. I have no desire to see them burn, no more so than any enemy merely because they are my enemy.Not sure how MI6 would feel about that, but given they're my enemy, I don't really care :) Edited October 18, 2015 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge X Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 All the lies and bull came to bear. They did things and manipulated events against our wishes to appease shiny new allies. We mattered nothing to them anymore than a chess piece on the board. They were forewarned that we did not agree with their actions. All we did was what we've always done, stand on our principles. The problem is that Pacifica, greedy and power hungry could care less about us anymore. I'm happy you don't want me back. That says alot about your distaste for me. If like to smack it out your mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 "tenacity" You tapped out of defending pacifica after barely 4 weeks in your last war together. It might not have even been that long. Your tencacity, much like your loyalty is an absolute farce. Go back to sleep JudgeX, no one missed you. I'll admit I have no knowledge of last war, but 4 weeks is a fairly long time for a CN war. If they weren't committed they would have pulled out a week in like I've seen certain alliances do. No one that is uncommitted stays for a full four weeks. In any case, that does not undo the years that TPF put in to defend you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge X Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Judge: There is no twisting here. TPF and NPO over the last 8 years diverged. TPF chose its loyalties and we chose ours. We chose ours first, surely, but TPF could have come along with us, but they chose not to and got close to MI6 instead, something we couldn't tolerate, so we concluded our agreements. No big deal. However, it put you on the side of our enemy and that makes TPF our enemy as well. I have no regrets for something I cannot control and what I cannot control is TPF's course of action. It is sovereign, it plotted its own course and its own consequences in doing so. We are as much bound today by the honor debts of 8 years ago as we are the grudges of 8 years ago. Even the people in our respective groups have changed constituency massively since that time. You are not the same TPF, we are not the same NPO. I mean if you want to break with MI6 and come ally with us, speak to our coalition FA, maybe we can work something out. I'd gladly appreciate TPF's defection if it regrets its course of action. I have no desire to see them burn, no more so than any enemy merely because they are my enemy. Not sure how MI6 would feel about that, but given they're my enemy, I don't really care :) Pacifica could always do the same as you're asking us. For once bend to our cause instead of your own selfish ways. There lies the problem though doesn't it? Pacifica can only sacrifice for Pacifica, while for years we sacrificed you never did and it seems never planned to for us. It makes me laugh that you speak of honor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) Why is it selfish for us to want to go our own direction? How is it any more selfish than your desire to take us in your direction? Why must either of us sacrifice? Can't it be seen that different directions were simply chosen by the both of us?I speak of honor because I view it as an intrinsic right of sovereignty that an alliance be able to plot its own course and its own consequences. I speak of personal responsibility as an attribute of honor. We went our own way, you went ours. Yours unfortunately put your group in the middle of the road before ours. Unfortunate, but you chose the path as was your right. Edited October 18, 2015 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Why is it selfish for us to want to go our own direction? How is it any more selfish than your desire to take us in your direction? Why must either of us sacrifice? Can't it be seen that different directions were simply chosen by the both of us? I speak of honor because I view it as an intrinsic right of sovereignty that an alliance be able to plot its own course and its own consequences. I speak of personal responsibility as an attribute of honor. We went our own way, you went ours. Yours unfortunately put your group in the middle of the road before ours. Unfortunate, but you chose the path as was your right. You didn't simply shake hands and part ways. You both walked opposite directions, and NPO took ten steps turned around and fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opaque Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Not saying it as justification, but people are acting like this hasn't happened several times in the not-so-distant past. Right. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) You didn't simply shake hands and part ways. You both walked opposite directions, and NPO took ten steps turned around and fired. Squarely at MI6.. not our fault that TPF was standing on the pathway walking back in MI6's direction. Edited October 18, 2015 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Squarely at MI6.. not our fault that TPF was standing on the pathway walking back in MI6's direction. You preempted them. That's a very square shot right at them ....... Or did you mean to preempt someone else and accidentally hit TPF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 You preempted them. That's a very square shot right at them ....... Or did you mean to preempt someone else and accidentally hit TPF? He has lost himself in his doublespeak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Pacifica could always do the same as you're asking us. For once bend to our cause instead of your own selfish ways. There lies the problem though doesn't it? Pacifica can only sacrifice for Pacifica, while for years we sacrificed you never did and it seems never planned to for us. It makes me laugh that you speak of honor! I seem to recall us "bending to your cause" in the previous instance where there was a situation of conflicting treaties, last year.You know, the one where you told us that you didn't want to put us on spot, but we had to "decide". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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