HM Solomon I Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 This is what I've been trying to say. Each alliance has tough choices. Don't make the tough choices for them, MI6, TPF, and STA. Don't tell your allies in advance that you won't call them in. You didn't get them into this mess of conflicting treaties, their buddies in Oculus did when they jumped into a CB-Less purely aggressive war. The defense clauses SHOULD be firing off like a machine gun. Non-chaining clauses, not much else needs to be said in response to this. And there is a CB, several in fact, that you don't agree with them doesn't mean they don't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes the wise Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Non-chaining clauses, not much else needs to be said in response to this. And there is a CB, several in fact, that you don't agree with them doesn't mean they don't exist. Forget about MI6, they've ticked off the entire world, even CCC at one point a couple years ago. What's your CB with TPF? No CB. Complete cold blood attack without provocation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercoolyellow Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Now well, I do must say that I was saddened when the treaty was canceled and I'm also saddened to see TPF and NPO now in a war... The fact that someone is a war target does not means it is my enemy... Good luck, TPF. Godspeed! What a nice and completely insincere platitude you have there. If members of NPO were sad that this war was happening, then NPO wouldn't be going out of its way to hit TPF. Everyone outside of Occulus sees though this Elegarth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleRena Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Non-chaining clauses, not much else needs to be said in response to this. And there is a CB, several in fact, that you don't agree with them doesn't mean they don't exist. List all of the CBs against TPF. Signing a treaty with someone you didn't like doesn't count, NPO did that the reverse a number of times (as already stated a large number of times). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) List all of the CBs against TPF. Signing a treaty with someone you didn't like doesn't count, NPO did that the reverse a number of times (as already stated a large number of times). Actually, having a treaty with an enemy power is a reason MANY nations have been drawn into wars that were not their own. You can't say it doesn't count, you simply don't have that kind of authority when it has happened repeatedly throughout history. In fact it's arguably the ultimate CB against a third party. "You are a friend of my enemy, therefore, you are also my enemy."Also, keep those nukes coming Ditch.. 5 more and I can get my Wonder.*Barks to his soldiers* "Get out there and get in front of those nukes and bullets! We needed that Cemetery filled last war! You're making up for the failures of your predecessors! Get in there and die for your country!"The zealots cried out, "FOR DRAGONISIA! WE GIVE OUR LIVES FOR THE FATHERLAND!" and rushed the front. Edited October 16, 2015 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 What a nice and completely insincere platitude you have there. If members of NPO were sad that this war was happening, then NPO wouldn't be going out of its way to hit TPF. Everyone outside of Occulus sees though this Elegarth. actually it was sincere .... but once posts like this keep happening then what is the use of being sincere... sometimes SYC you should let honesty be. NPO did not go out of its way ... this is all about Oculus and current allies taking matter into thier hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty of the Herm Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Actually, having a treaty with an enemy power is a reason MANY nations have been drawn into wars that were not their own. You can't say it doesn't count, you simply don't have that kind of authority when it has happened repeatedly throughout history. In fact it's arguably the ultimate CB against a third party. "You are a friend of my enemy, therefore, you are also my enemy." Also, keep those nukes coming Ditch.. 5 more and I can get my Wonder. *Barks to his soldiers* "Get out there and get in front of those nukes and bullets! We needed that Cemetery filled last war! You're making up for the failures of your predecessors! Get in there and die for your country!" The zealots cried out, "FOR DRAGONISIA! WE GIVE OUR LIVES FOR THE FATHERLAND!" and rushed the front. For some reason I remember DH preempting us because our allies wouldn't call us into their war for assistance to start the DH/NPO War, but that's just me pulling an example of precedent out of the cobwebs in the back of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchboy00 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 For some reason I remember DH preempting us because our allies wouldn't call us into their war for assistance to start the DH/NPO War, but that's just me pulling an example of precedent out of the cobwebs in the back of my head. And the tears were delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 For some reason I remember DH preempting us because our allies wouldn't call us into their war for assistance to start the DH/NPO War, but that's just me pulling an example of precedent out of the cobwebs in the back of my head.Yeah, those evil Doomhouse members you're allied to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty of the Herm Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Yeah, those evil Doomhouse members you're allied to. We settled our issues with them by knocking heads several times after that, I was just giving one instance of precedent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 I mean, ending an incredibly destructive war against them right as they were starting to take the serious damage, I'd be willing to forgive you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercoolyellow Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 NPO did not go out of its way ... You can't be serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol Navy Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 For some reason I remember DH preempting us because our allies wouldn't call us into their war for assistance to start the DH/NPO War, but that's just me pulling an example of precedent out of the cobwebs in the back of my head. That war where we tried to keep you out, but ended up fighting something like 100 days against C&G, GOONS, MK, and Umbrella while your top 50 or so nations were in PM for 90 percent of the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleRena Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Actually, having a treaty with an enemy power is a reason MANY nations have been drawn into wars that were not their own. You can't say it doesn't count, you simply don't have that kind of authority when it has happened repeatedly throughout history. In fact it's arguably the ultimate CB against a third party. "You are a friend of my enemy, therefore, you are also my enemy." But it was fine for NPO to ally with Umberalla who were spying on TPF at the time and tell us to deal with it? Your logic is flawed. That war where we tried to keep you out, but ended up fighting something like 100 days against C&G, GOONS, MK, and Umbrella while your top 50 or so nations were in PM for 90 percent of the war. Don't bring things like facts into this, I don't think they want to hear that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles the Tyrant Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) For some reason I remember DH preempting us because our allies wouldn't call us into their war for assistance to start the DH/NPO War, but that's just me pulling an example of precedent out of the cobwebs in the back of my head.I remember the DH preempt as being that time NPO's leadership were informed of the specific date and time of the attack and instead did nothing about it whatsoever other than let it happen in order to gain sympathy points. I got yelled at by the poodle iirc for changing my improvement slots after receiving and passing along credible Intel which was proven to be accurate. Instead, the upper tier nations were sent into PM and everyone else was intentionally left defenceless and unprepared. True fact although I seriously doubt it is a secret. Old news after all. Edited October 17, 2015 by Charles the Tyrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty of the Herm Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 I remember the DH preempt as being that time NPO's leadership were informed of the specific date and time of the attack and instead did nothing about it whatsoever other than let it happen in order to gain sympathy points. I got yelled at by the poodle iirc for changing my improvement slots after receiving and passing along credible Intel which was proven to be accurate. Instead, the upper tier nations were sent into PM and everyone else was intentionally left defenceless and unprepared. True fact although I seriously doubt it is a secret. Old news after all. And what did pretty much every AA in the game tell us we had to do during Karma? They told us we had to change, and as has been mentioned earlier pretty much every one of our allies didn't want to defend us from that wave of hatred at the time. It took strong coersion from the Karma coalition to force most of our allies to defend us at the time, and even with TPF at the time it took the threat of mhawk leaving TPF to get them to step into the fray, So we've changed over time, it doesn't mean everyone has to like what we've become. We are the ebil NPO after all. I have always highly respected TPF, and I always will, I don't like the fact that we're facing each other now on the battlefield, and I think we could've definitely handled the CB a lot better than we did, but it doesn't change the fact that we're fighting it out now regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 I think the folks in Oculus know NPO will take out allies of it's expedient. I mean they've done it continuously for years. This is just another chapter that includes VE, FAN, Polar,STA, Invicta, Legion, and if you want to really push the issue everyone in equilibrium. Solution- just never follow NPO's impulsive whims. MI6 knows Oculus hates us. Envy will make you hate alliances with balls if you have none. I can't speak for my other alliance mates but I don't fucking care. I'd rather be awesome and do what I want than a pansy ass backstabbing alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 If I was able to get a protectorate signed despite the deep hatred held by some in Oculus for me and my alliance, there's no reason MI6 can't pull itself out of this mess. It's really a leadership issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) If I was able to get a protectorate signed despite the deep hatred held by some in Oculus for me and my alliance, there's no reason MI6 can't pull itself out of this mess. It's really a leadership issue. Pull ourself out of what mess? Our leadership is fine. We have Oculus right where we want them being hammered by our nukes. Again I'd rather be doing what I want than being a candidate for betrayal any day. At least MI6 know our allies aren't about to target us for destruction. That's not to say there aren't respectable alliances in Oculus. The alliances and people that I like there know who they are and I hope they make it out of there ok. Edited October 17, 2015 by Omniscient1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) If I was able to get a protectorate signed despite the deep hatred held by some in Oculus for me and my alliance, there's no reason MI6 can't pull itself out of this mess. It's really a leadership issue. And on any given whim they'll drop you and roll you. History means nothing as TPF knows. Admin knows you haven't done jackshit to earn the right to lick any of their balls let alone have any political capital To have gained such ... "Favour" .. Without it being entirely for their own ends. Leadership issue, yes. But it's not their issue. *autocorrect fail Edited October 17, 2015 by Rayvon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 If I was able to get a protectorate signed despite the deep hatred held by some in Oculus for me and my alliance, there's no reason MI6 can't pull itself out of this mess. It's really a leadership issue. There's more to this game than cowering over pixels and licking boots. Maybe we can teach a few folks this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 And on any given whim they'll drop you and roll you. History means nothing as TPF knows. Admin knows you haven't done jack!@#$ to earn the right to lick any of their balls let alone have any political capital To have gained such ... "Favour" .. Without it being entirely for their own ends. Leadership issue, yes. But it's not their issue. *autocorrect fail Are you still mad about Disorder bro? Anyway I'm aligned with Doom, not Oculus, and I've voiced opinions that conflict with Oculus policy so maybe it is the case that MI6 is in the situation it is in because of leadership issues. I like alot of people in MI6 but that doesn't mean their FA is on point. MI6 can come out of this conflict as the leader of a power sphere if it really wanted to, but I don't see it happening right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 There are several entirely valid reasons to pre-empt, and there's a lot of precedent behind it.Just take your lumps and move on; nobody's going to change anybody's mind on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opaque Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 There are several entirely valid reasons to pre-empt, and there's a lot of precedent behind it. Precedent does not legitimacy make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Precedent does not legitimacy make.Er, well, no. That's why I said there are valid reasons for it too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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