Oculus Decree

[Franz Ferdinand]

 

That's because most of the intelligent, competent leadership of Bob realized it wasn't worth the headache, and retired.

 

Edit: Or came to MI6. :v:

Or faded away once the Karma War ended and what was order started to descend into chaos with no real direction.

[Sargun II]

Or faded away once the Karma War ended and what was order started to descend into chaos with no real direction.

I like to think my disappearance is what led the world community into chaos.

 

Now that I am back, there is blood for the blood god.  My thirst must be sated.

[Prozenz]

So bloody much hilarity in this thread. 
 
Stop with the "It takes XXXXX ns to fight our YYY NS, how pathetic" nonsense. 
 
You(Mi6) once helped set, and cheered on a war that began with Fark, TOP and NpO DoWing on NSO. If memory serves me correct, 2 of those 3 were sanctioned alliances, 1 was just off sanction, and NSO was 25-30ish. It was PROBABLY in the neighborhood of 30 million on 4 million, or maybe more, or hell, maybe less, but the point is, it was many many many times more than what was needed.
 
The only difference is , NSO had friends to whittle down that ratio, even if just a little bit. Mi6, well, you have no friends.
 
You then joined in, and DoW'ed alongside NpO, Sparta, Legion, Valhalla, GOONS, then later CCC for !@#$% and giggle on NPO. You didnt say "wow, we have about 5 or 6 x their NS, we should be embarrassed it takes so much." Fortunately, NPO had friends to help reduce that ratio a little. Mi6, oh yeah, you have no friends.
 
You then plodded merrily along as the coalition, that you were an integral part of arranged such even matchups as Umbrella, VE, LOSS, Mortal Wombat, DoD, UPN, MHA on NG. Fortunately, NG had some friends to decrease that ratio just a bit. In case you missed it, Mi6 has no friends.
 
As time went on, you then cheered and lol'd your way along as the coalition that was going to springboard Mi6 from kingmakers to kings (LMAO), arranged many more even square offs such as TOP, GO, Umbrella, NpO, Sparta, Fark, MHA on NATO. Fortunately though, NATO had a few friends to at least lighten some of that load. Mi6, as you may have figured out by now, has no friends.
 
The butt hurt over the NS is not about a sense of right, wrong, or overkill, it is a frustration post, from a group who has nobody to lighten their load. Rather than focus on why that is, they choose to play the victim card. Life on Planet Bob is hard, when you have no friends. I read a book once, about a place called the United States of America, on a planet called Earth, in a galaxy far, far, away. In this book, there was a great philosopher named Ron   White. You see, Ron was once getting drunk in an establishment that serves alcoholic beverages, and got into a spot of trouble with a group of 11 or 12 other guys. It was this encounter that produced an amazing quote of wisdom. You see, he didnt complain, he acknowledged his mistake. "I didn't know how many of them it would take to kick my ass, but I knew how many they were going to use."

Ah, I remember that war, NPO has a friend like you whos hidding in a peace mode the entire war. :lol:

On the other hand, NSO fights, and we become friends now. I believe MI6 will fight too in this war, so good luck.

[Franz Ferdinand]

I like to think my disappearance is what led the world community into chaos.

 

Now that I am back, there is blood for the blood god.  My thirst must be sated.

I'm glad that you are back, even if other individuals out there aren't.

[Canik]

This is the way a real leader speaks. You young whipper snappers take note; that's what authority looks like.

The tone was right, but I knew STA didn't ally based off popularity. Before that I had said "STA has a reputation for ignoring geopolitical landscape" and "STA defends politically toxic allies".. so Tyga was just repeating back what I already knew & said. Missing my point, which is simply that STA cannot realistically expect many allies to join them in every "unpopular" war. This is true for any alliance that ignores the mainstream so completely. Kaskus would be another, for example. It also causes them in general to have less treaties, and less strong treaties. Not that it's a bad thing, it just it what it is.

Since Tyga misunderstood my point, the rest of the first paragraph, though true and well said, was also a moot argument.
 

There are a number of valid reasons why a non-chaining clause might be activated. Other treaty obligations, your ally may already be at war on the opposing side so unable to assist you or you may be at war with their other allies so they sit the war out to name but a few reasons. But declining because you don't want to be on the losing side isn't one I'd consider to be valid at all. Just my opinion, of course.

Then this part, I assume she meant "why a non-chaining clause might not be activated", but it's way off from normal standards in my opinion, which, I am probably a better authority on mainstream policies than Tyga.

The reasons she gives would be reasons to not activate a treaty even if it were chaining. Non-chaining, literally any reason is valid. (tho simply to avoid a losing war would be a very poor one, still technically valid) Personally, I find this not to even be something of opinion, but it's a straight-up fact, unless stated otherwise in the non-chaining clause. Optional cannot, by definition, be mandatory. To expect your allies to consider something that is optional to be mandatory, I would say that is not being a very good ally.

The way a 'real leader speaks', the way 'authority' looks like, usually includes being right. Otherwise they won't seem very authoritative or leader-like for long. Her confidence and appeal to righteousness is strong, but she is factually wrong in this particular case. Non-chaining =/= Mandatory Chaining, end of discussion.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Big Ego

[Azaghul]

So bloody much hilarity in this thread. 

 

Stop with the "It takes XXXXX ns to fight our YYY NS, how pathetic" nonsense. 

 

You(Mi6) once helped set, and cheered on a war that began with Fark, TOP and NpO DoWing on NSO. If memory serves me correct, 2 of those 3 were sanctioned alliances, 1 was just off sanction, and NSO was 25-30ish. It was PROBABLY in the neighborhood of 30 million on 4 million, or maybe more, or hell, maybe less, but the point is, it was many many many times more than what was needed.

 

The only difference is , NSO had friends to whittle down that ratio, even if just a little bit. Mi6, well, you have no friends.

 

You then joined in, and DoW'ed alongside NpO, Sparta, Legion, Valhalla, GOONS, then later CCC for !@#$% and giggle on NPO. You didnt say "wow, we have about 5 or 6 x their NS, we should be embarrassed it takes so much." Fortunately, NPO had friends to help reduce that ratio a little. Mi6, oh yeah, you have no friends.

 

You then plodded merrily along as the coalition, that you were an integral part of arranged such even matchups as Umbrella, VE, LOSS, Mortal Wombat, DoD, UPN, MHA on NG. Fortunately, NG had some friends to decrease that ratio just a bit. In case you missed it, Mi6 has no friends.

 

As time went on, you then cheered and lol'd your way along as the coalition that was going to springboard Mi6 from kingmakers to kings (LMAO), arranged many more even square offs such as TOP, GO, Umbrella, NpO, Sparta, Fark, MHA on NATO. Fortunately though, NATO had a few friends to at least lighten some of that load. Mi6, as you may have figured out by now, has no friends.

 

The butt hurt over the NS is not about a sense of right, wrong, or overkill, it is a frustration post, from a group who has nobody to lighten their load. Rather than focus on why that is, they choose to play the victim card. Life on Planet Bob is hard, when you have no friends. I read a book once, about a place called the United States of America, on a planet called Earth, in a galaxy far, far, away. In this book, there was a great philosopher named Ron   White. You see, Ron was once getting drunk in an establishment that serves alcoholic beverages, and got into a spot of trouble with a group of 11 or 12 other guys. It was this encounter that produced an amazing quote of wisdom. You see, he didnt complain, he acknowledged his mistake. "I didn't know how many of them it would take to kick my ass, but I knew how many they were going to use."

I gotta disagree with you here mate.

There's a big difference between going in overkill on an alliance, knowing with reasonable certainty that they have lots of allies and allies of allies ready to jump in that will make the odds more even, and going in when they don't have so many people ready to jump in on them.

 

Everyone looked at the numbers and the chains before this war, so it's its disingenuous to just look at things right now in isolation.  And everyone knew it's be absurdly one sided.  I'm not saying all sides need to be equal, but I'd be very surprised if the ratio in this war ever gets less than 5:1.  Even even in Dave War, where MK concocted a ridiculous CB to attack people again that we had just beaten down the war before, the odds never were greater than 2:1.

This isn't about MI6.  This is about how absurdly lame Oculus is.

As an attempt to be the yearly global war, this war is a pathetic joke.  

[Mogar]

I looked through my quotes and realized I never replied to this

Interesting comment from a person who took part in attacking GPA.  What was you motivation back then?

I wasn't particularly happy about the decision to hit them, remember I tried to join GPA and run for office before they were actually hit, since I felt I could use my connections within the Q leadership to prevent it from occurring in the first place. I also minimized the repercussions of anyone I warred who went nuclear, they got off without any punishment, instead of the trip to ZI that some others received. I don't pretend I don't have blood on my hands, but I also am able to acknowledge that maybe some of those throats I slit weren't really needed, a type of thinking more in this world could do with.
 

 

but I'd be very surprised if the ratio in this war ever gets less than 5:1.  

First off, an eloquent post, now regarding this particular point, the only way it could even get that close would be an offensive dec on Polar, otherwise it's going to remain far far closer to the 10+:1 it is currently, even if STA elects to go in, and we both know they're not going to be hit offensively due to your alliance.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Mogar

[Jesse End]

So bloody much hilarity in this thread. 

 

Stop with the "It takes XXXXX ns to fight our YYY NS, how pathetic" nonsense. 

 

You(Mi6) once helped set, and cheered on a war that began with Fark, TOP and NpO DoWing on NSO. If memory serves me correct, 2 of those 3 were sanctioned alliances, 1 was just off sanction, and NSO was 25-30ish. It was PROBABLY in the neighborhood of 30 million on 4 million, or maybe more, or hell, maybe less, but the point is, it was many many many times more than what was needed.

 

The only difference is , NSO had friends to whittle down that ratio, even if just a little bit. Mi6, well, you have no friends.

 

You then joined in, and DoW'ed alongside NpO, Sparta, Legion, Valhalla, GOONS, then later CCC for !@#$% and giggle on NPO. You didnt say "wow, we have about 5 or 6 x their NS, we should be embarrassed it takes so much." Fortunately, NPO had friends to help reduce that ratio a little. Mi6, oh yeah, you have no friends.

 

You then plodded merrily along as the coalition, that you were an integral part of arranged such even matchups as Umbrella, VE, LOSS, Mortal Wombat, DoD, UPN, MHA on NG. Fortunately, NG had some friends to decrease that ratio just a bit. In case you missed it, Mi6 has no friends.

 

As time went on, you then cheered and lol'd your way along as the coalition that was going to springboard Mi6 from kingmakers to kings (LMAO), arranged many more even square offs such as TOP, GO, Umbrella, NpO, Sparta, Fark, MHA on NATO. Fortunately though, NATO had a few friends to at least lighten some of that load. Mi6, as you may have figured out by now, has no friends.

 

The butt hurt over the NS is not about a sense of right, wrong, or overkill, it is a frustration post, from a group who has nobody to lighten their load. Rather than focus on why that is, they choose to play the victim card. Life on Planet Bob is hard, when you have no friends. I read a book once, about a place called the United States of America, on a planet called Earth, in a galaxy far, far, away. In this book, there was a great philosopher named Ron   White. You see, Ron was once getting drunk in an establishment that serves alcoholic beverages, and got into a spot of trouble with a group of 11 or 12 other guys. It was this encounter that produced an amazing quote of wisdom. You see, he didnt complain, he acknowledged his mistake. "I didn't know how many of them it would take to kick my ass, but I knew how many they were going to use."

 

What's this?  There's no room for logic in Mi6's propaganda.

 

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Franz Ferdinand]

 

What's this?  There's no room for logic in Mi6's propaganda.

 

You should be ashamed of yourself.

He will only be ashamed when you take him out on a date. Believe me, he told me so.

[wes the wise]

CCC's master plan is nearly complete. Once MI6 and TPF are subjugated, all we need is NpO to join Oculus and we can officially declare world peace! 

 

This is really really dumb, congratulations guys!

[hormones74]

I gotta disagree with you here mate.

There's a big difference between going in overkill on an alliance, knowing with reasonable certainty that they have lots of allies and allies of allies ready to jump in that will make the odds more even, and going in when they don't have so many people ready to jump in on them.
 
Everyone looked at the numbers and the chains before this war, so it's its disingenuous to just look at things right now in isolation.  And everyone knew it's be absurdly one sided.  I'm not saying all sides need to be equal, but I'd be very surprised if the ratio in this war ever gets less than 5:1.  Even even in Dave War, where MK concocted a ridiculous CB to attack people again that we had just beaten down the war before, the odds never were greater than 2:1.

This isn't about MI6.  This is about how absurdly lame Oculus is.

As an attempt to be the yearly global war, this war is a pathetic joke.  

I love this guy.

[Omniscient1]

I gotta disagree with you here mate.

There's a big difference between going in overkill on an alliance, knowing with reasonable certainty that they have lots of allies and allies of allies ready to jump in that will make the odds more even, and going in when they don't have so many people ready to jump in on them.
 
Everyone looked at the numbers and the chains before this war, so it's its disingenuous to just look at things right now in isolation.  And everyone knew it's be absurdly one sided.  I'm not saying all sides need to be equal, but I'd be very surprised if the ratio in this war ever gets less than 5:1.  Even even in Dave War, where MK concocted a ridiculous CB to attack people again that we had just beaten down the war before, the odds never were greater than 2:1.

This isn't about MI6.  This is about how absurdly lame Oculus is.

As an attempt to be the yearly global war, this war is a pathetic joke.  

Although you've usually been on the opposite side of things; you've always been a straight talker. Kudos to you. O/

[Kadin]

 

That's because most of the intelligent, competent leadership of Bob realized it wasn't worth the headache, and retired.

 

Edit: Or came to MI6. :v:

Finally some recognition. :ehm:

[Tygaland]

The tone was right, but I knew STA didn't ally based off popularity. Before that I had said "STA has a reputation for ignoring geopolitical landscape" and "STA defends politically toxic allies".. so Tyga was just repeating back what I already knew & said. Missing my point, which is simply that STA cannot realistically expect many allies to join them in every "unpopular" war. This is true for any alliance that ignores the mainstream so completely. Kaskus would be another, for example. It also causes them in general to have less treaties, and less strong treaties. Not that it's a bad thing, it just it what it is.

Since Tyga misunderstood my point, the rest of the first paragraph, though true and well said, was also a moot argument.

 

I didn't misunderstand you at all. You clearly stated that you would not defend an ally  with whom you held a non-chaining defense treaty if that ally was on the losing side of the war.

 

Then this part, I assume she meant "why a non-chaining clause might not be activated", but it's way off from normal standards in my opinion, which, I am probably a better authority on mainstream policies than Tyga.

 

No, I meant what I said. Why a non-chaining clause would be activated. Not activating a non-chaining clause would be when you would go to war to assist an ally despite that ally going to war via another treaty. That is, chaining in.

 

As for the mainstream thing it is probably more a reflection of how low standards have sunk that your policy is "mainstream" than anything else,

 

 

The reasons she gives would be reasons to not activate a treaty even if it were chaining. Non-chaining, literally any reason is valid. (tho simply to avoid a losing war would be a very poor one, still technically valid) Personally, I find this not to even be something of opinion, but it's a straight-up fact, unless stated otherwise in the non-chaining clause. Optional cannot, by definition, be mandatory. To expect your allies to consider something that is optional to be mandatory, I would say that is not being a very good ally.

 

Granted some of the reasons could equally apply to a chaining defense treaty but if you sign chaining defense treaties then you should do due diligence and make sure that those reasons would not occur or would only occur in the most unlikely of circumstances.

 

Where you and I differ is that a treaty between my alliance is more than just the clauses on the treaty itself. It is a sign of friendship and respect as well as a defensive treaty. You, on the other hand, treat them much differently and see them more as something to enact when it suits you and ignore when it doesn't. But that is just me and my non-mainstream crazy-talk.

 

There is nothing in what I said that makes an optional clause mandatory. What I said bases itself on the fact that the alliance you signed the treaty with has enough respect for you that they would exercise that option only in situations where their hands were tied.

 

 

 

The way a 'real leader speaks', the way 'authority' looks like, usually includes being right. Otherwise they won't seem very authoritative or leader-like for long. Her confidence and appeal to righteousness is strong, but she is factually wrong in this particular case. Non-chaining =/= Mandatory Chaining, end of discussion.

 

I never claimed it did. Ironic you dismiss my comments as "misunderstanding" your argument then proceed to misrepresent my argument in the same reply.

 

As for not lasting long as a leader, I'll leave that up to others to decide. I have lead my alliance for over 7 years so I'm not sure how much longer I have to go to be a long-lasting leader. Perhaps someone like yourself who is switched-on with the mainstream can let me know. I'll just sit over here in my rocking chair relaxing and remembering better times when a treaty meant more than a collection of clauses  and a bunch of e-lawyers looking to weasel out of the treaty when the excrement and fan collided.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Tygaland

[Charles the Tyrant]

Tyga schooling the pups. The nostalgia.

 

How much everything has changed...but also how little everything has changed :P

Edited October 12, 2015 by Charles the Tyrant

[Hereno]

on that note,

100 tech to whoever can tell me where this was said, and by whom:

What a day for the CN community. <_<

I wonder how much fun it will be when all the outspoken members of the community are gone and all that remains are pages upon pages of people o/ing one another and making the same overused gestures?

[Charles the Tyrant]

on that note,

100 tech to whoever can tell me where this was said, and by whom:
 

 

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/29984-so-i-guess-this-is-it/?p=794410

 

Good to see RV still around :P

[The Zigur]

on that note,100 tech to whoever can tell me where this was said, and by whom:

You just gave up 100 tech to the first person to utilize google :awesome:

[Hereno]

fuck now i owe tech

this is also somehow npo's fault

[Charles the Tyrant]

$%&@ now i owe tech

this is also somehow npo's fault

 

It is ok. You can pay me in a few months from now :P

[Neo Uruk]

$%&@ now i owe tech

this is also somehow npo's fault

welcome to the club, gift basket's on your right

[D34th]

Tyga schooling the pups. The nostalgia.

 

How much everything has changed...but also how little everything has changed :P

 

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

 

May be it's time to bring back the tygaist user bar.

 

[Natan]

I gotta disagree with you here mate.

There's a big difference between going in overkill on an alliance, knowing with reasonable certainty that they have lots of allies and allies of allies ready to jump in that will make the odds more even, and going in when they don't have so many people ready to jump in on them.

 

Everyone looked at the numbers and the chains before this war, so it's its disingenuous to just look at things right now in isolation.  And everyone knew it's be absurdly one sided.  I'm not saying all sides need to be equal, but I'd be very surprised if the ratio in this war ever gets less than 5:1.  Even even in Dave War, where MK concocted a ridiculous CB to attack people again that we had just beaten down the war before, the odds never were greater than 2:1.

This isn't about MI6.  This is about how absurdly lame Oculus is.

As an attempt to be the yearly global war, this war is a pathetic joke.  

 

This is just a warm up. You're next.

[Rebirth]

 

This is just a warm up. You're next.

It's statements like this that reassure me that Oculus has the moral high ground in this war. MI6 are clearly the biggest jerks on OWF. Case closed.

[Neo Uruk]

Yes, that statement from Noted Seriousposter Natan is surely all the evidence you need