Jump to content

A Hero Forever Loyal To The Flames Of War Rests In Outer Heaven


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 118
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

 

Pretty accurate assessment, just reading through...

I'm pretty sure more than two people have posted in this thread, and this does not appear to be the general consensus. That being said: Hothead? A bit, perhaps. Idiot? Hardly. Enjoys racist jokes? I would like to point out that there is a difference between being insensitive and genuinely racist. Do I enjoy the occasional insensitive joke? Sure. In the proper context and around people I think have think enough skin to handle it. I didn't realize certain people at MI6 had such thin skin and I didn't appreciate the handling of the situation, which involved jumping straight to accusing me of racism over a joke without confronting me first (and then telling me that I did not deserve that consideration anyway when I voiced my concerns).

 

I would like to further drive home my point about there being a difference between insensitivity and racism by asking a simple question. Do you (and this question can be answered by anyone) watch Dave Chappelle's material? Are you offended by it? If you are not, but you are offended by the joke I made (in a relatively private setting, I might add) then you are a hypocrite and your ideas are based on some actually racist logic.

 

At its core, that is saying "It is ok for Dave Chappelle to use that word in a joke because he is black, but it is not ok for Shokkou to do the same because he is white." The logic here being "It is ok for [person 1] to [action] because they are [skin color/ethnicity/nationality 1], but it is not ok for [person 2] to do the same because they are [skin color/ethnicity/nationality 2]." This logic works equally well to say "It is ok for this person to use this water fountain because they are white, but it is not ok for this other person to do the same because they are black." That is actual racism.

 

Have a nice day.

Edited by Shokkou
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure more than two people have posted in this thread, and this does not appear to be the general consensus. That being said: Hothead? A bit, perhaps. Idiot? Hardly. Enjoys racist jokes? I would like to point out that there is a difference between being insensitive and genuinely racist. Do I enjoy the occasional insensitive joke? Sure. In the proper context and around people I think have think enough skin to handle it. I didn't realize certain people at MI6 had such thin skin and I didn't appreciate the handling of the situation, which involved jumping straight to accusing me of racism over a joke without confronting me first (and then telling me that I did not deserve that consideration anyway when I voiced my concerns).
 
I would like to further drive home my point about there being a difference between insensitivity and racism by asking a simple question. Do you (and this question can be answered by anyone) watch Dave Chappelle's material? Are you offended by it? If you are not, but you are offended by the joke I made (in a relatively private setting, I might add) then you are a hypocrite and your ideas are based on some actually racist logic.
 
At its core, that is saying "It is ok for Dave Chappelle to use that word in a joke because he is black, but it is not ok for Shokkou to do the same because he is white." The logic here being "It is ok for [person 1] to [action] because they are [skin color/ethnicity/nationality 1], but it is not ok for [person 2] to do the same because they are [skin color/ethnicity/nationality 2]." This logic works equally well to say "It is ok for this person to use this water fountain because they are white, but it is not ok for this other person to do the same because they are black." That is actual racism.
 
Have a nice day.


Alright, at this point I think we can conclude that the assessment of "hot-headed possibly slightly racist if not just deluded/dumb" is rather accurate.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shokkou, a piece of advice: freedom of speech is not a universal value on Bob. Arguing over fundamental values is a long and tedious process which rarely results in any sort of agreement, since values are instilled in you from a young age and difficult to change, even if you want them to change.

 

You were in MI6's house, and they requested you abide by their rules in their house. While we can argue over the appropriateness of the response, ultimately they can do as they want in their house. You're better off finding a community that holds freedom of speech more dearly than MI6 does, rather than getting in an endless argument with Myth, who will never admit he is wrong even if he were provably wrong. There are a few AAs out there that value freedom of speech (even other than Non Grata), so go out and find them.

 

Still, in Non Grata, actual racist topics & posts tend to get trolled until the poster leaves or stops posting them. A member tried to "rage quit" by posting racist material, he instead found himself subject to a thousand incomprehensible epithets until he got bored and left. It's believed that open communication is better so that any idiots understand why they are idiots, rather than allowing them to develop a martyr complex.

 

Keep that in mind. Freedom of speech is freedom of speech for everyone. You can and will be verbally assaulted if you touch a nerve on our forums. If you can't handle that, you might rage quit by attacking a fellow NGer, but we are far less forgiving than MI6. We actively fund our lower tiers to enforce ZIs and don't mind selling infra because the community is more important than individual NS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shokkou, a piece of advice: freedom of speech is not a universal value on Bob. Arguing over fundamental values is a long and tedious process which rarely results in any sort of agreement, since values are instilled in you from a young age and difficult to change, even if you want them to change.

 

You were in MI6's house, and they requested you abide by their rules in their house. While we can argue over the appropriateness of the response, ultimately they can do as they want in their house. You're better off finding a community that holds freedom of speech more dearly than MI6 does, rather than getting in an endless argument with Myth, who will never admit he is wrong even if he were provably wrong. There are a few AAs out there that value freedom of speech (even other than Non Grata), so go out and find them.

 

Still, in Non Grata, actual racist topics & posts tend to get trolled until the poster leaves or stops posting them. A member tried to "rage quit" by posting racist material, he instead found himself subject to a thousand incomprehensible epithets until he got bored and left. It's believed that open communication is better so that any idiots understand why they are idiots, rather than allowing them to develop a martyr complex.

 

Keep that in mind. Freedom of speech is freedom of speech for everyone. You can and will be verbally assaulted if you touch a nerve on our forums. If you can't handle that, you might rage quit by attacking a fellow NGer, but we are far less forgiving than MI6. We actively fund our lower tiers to enforce ZIs and don't mind selling infra because the community is more important than individual NS.

Oh, I get that. My purpose was merely to deconstruct the logic behind taking offense at something like that. I can get on argumentative streaks, and I find the mental exercise of finding and pointing out logical inconsistencies to be enjoyable when I'm in one.

 

I'm not bothered by trolling or verbal assaults, so long as I am free to dish it back out. If that's what you have, then you have what I'm looking for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, I get that. My purpose was merely to deconstruct the logic behind taking offense at something like that. I can get on argumentative streaks, and I find the mental exercise of finding and pointing out logical inconsistencies to be enjoyable when I'm in one.
 
I'm not bothered by trolling or verbal assaults, so long as I am free to dish it back out. If that's what you have, then you have what I'm looking for.



Do you want to see caustic's balls? :smug:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I for one believe that if the alliance is suppressing the freedom of speech, they should be rolled through and through. Shame on you MI6 for going against the good of your alliance. Expect your downfall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alright, at this point I think we can conclude that the assessment of "hot-headed possibly slightly racist if not just deluded/dumb" is rather accurate.

This has to be the weakest bait I've ever seen.

ITZS1TI.png

I even called my friend who's an expert on weak bait.

 

In fairness, most of Bob has, regardless of them being in NG or not :P

If you've got a nice drain pipe, there's no reason to hide it.  :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This has to be the weakest bait I've ever seen.
ITZS1TI.png
I even called my friend who's an expert on weak bait.


If I wanted to bait you, I'd point out in more detail how silly your entire argument was. However, it's not particularly worth my time to try. For some reason, I don't think you sound like the kind of person who'd understand.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

At its core, that is saying "It is ok for Dave Chappelle to use that word in a joke because he is black, but it is not ok for Shokkou to do the same because he is white." The logic here being "It is ok for [person 1] to [action] because they are [skin color/ethnicity/nationality 1], but it is not ok for [person 2] to do the same because they are [skin color/ethnicity/nationality 2]." This logic works equally well to say "It is ok for this person to use this water fountain because they are white, but it is not ok for this other person to do the same because they are black." That is actual racism.

 

Have a nice day.

 

To be fair, Dave Chappelle is actually funny, you not so much. Other than that, Atlas/Mi-6 still sucks. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Still, in Non Grata, actual racist topics & posts tend to get trolled until the poster leaves or stops posting them. A member tried to "rage quit" by posting racist material, he instead found himself subject to a thousand incomprehensible epithets until he got bored and left. It's believed that open communication is better so that any idiots understand why they are idiots, rather than allowing them to develop a martyr complex.

 

Indeed, that's usually the best way to handle it.  NG and CA are very similar I think in our approach to speech, even if I personally find the level of discourse in your channel is often a bit rougher than I like, I like the whole SJW/politically correct nonsense even less than rough/possibly racist remarks. Even with a real racist I'd rather try to have a conversation and see if I cant poke some information into some backroom of their brain and try to make them think.

 

Racists jokes bother me to some degree simply because it makes me look around the room and think 'ok there's a chance someone in here really got their feelings hurt' and there's no way to know if so or who. That's why I usually avoid telling them, particularly online. But I did say 'usually' and of course like most I dont feel as bad about telling jokes on one of my own ethnicities (and I have several, and no one here has any way to verify them, which is a whole different side issue)  or those of people close to me that I know will laugh rather than be offended (I have a TON of good Finn jokes - because I adore the Finns and have for years.) So it's really a very complicated issue and any policy or response that isnt quite nuanced is going to have problems IMOP.

 

After reading through the posts I can boil the stories down to the essentials, at least the bits that are essential to my point of view. MI6 says he posted something they perceived as racist, they removed it, he reposted it. He says that's true, but out of context - it was a joke of a sort many others posted many times with no one objecting and suddenly he is the bad guy and not even spoken to respectfully but quite the opposite, and so it was their handling of the situation and their disrespect, and inequitable treatment that resulted in his anger.

 

If we assume both parties are telling the truth (perhaps not the whole truth, but accurate from their point of view) then it sounds like a parting of the ways was necessary and may even benefit both parties, but certainly will benefit Shokkou.

Edited by Sigrun Vapneir
Link to comment
Share on other sites

spoiler alert if you unironically call people "SJWs" because they don't like the word !@#$%* you're a bit more racist than you'll ever admit.

 

Once again you fail basic reading comprehension. I don't like that word and I am most certainly not calling myself a SJW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure more than two people have posted in this thread, and this does not appear to be the general consensus. That being said: Hothead? A bit, perhaps. Idiot? Hardly. Enjoys racist jokes? I would like to point out that there is a difference between being insensitive and genuinely racist. Do I enjoy the occasional insensitive joke? Sure. In the proper context and around people I think have think enough skin to handle it. I didn't realize certain people at MI6 had such thin skin and I didn't appreciate the handling of the situation, which involved jumping straight to accusing me of racism over a joke without confronting me first (and then telling me that I did not deserve that consideration anyway when I voiced my concerns).
 
I would like to further drive home my point about there being a difference between insensitivity and racism by asking a simple question. Do you (and this question can be answered by anyone) watch Dave Chappelle's material? Are you offended by it? If you are not, but you are offended by the joke I made (in a relatively private setting, I might add) then you are a hypocrite and your ideas are based on some actually racist logic.
 
At its core, that is saying "It is ok for Dave Chappelle to use that word in a joke because he is black, but it is not ok for Shokkou to do the same because he is white." The logic here being "It is ok for [person 1] to [action] because they are [skin color/ethnicity/nationality 1], but it is not ok for [person 2] to do the same because they are [skin color/ethnicity/nationality 2]." This logic works equally well to say "It is ok for this person to use this water fountain because they are white, but it is not ok for this other person to do the same because they are black." That is actual racism.
 
Have a nice day.


So you're not racist for using the word in an attempt to be funny and we're all racists for being offended/treating the word as a racial slur? The logic there is a bit baffling.

Also, pro tip: if you're looking for sympathy don't compare your posting plight to the troubles of Jim Crow. Your analogy is so off base I can't even begin to address it. My advice? Go out and experience the world. You'll find that you lose nothing by NOT using the slur and others who are out there will benefit.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you're not racist for using the word in an attempt to be funny and we're all racists for being offended/treating the word as a racial slur? The logic there is a bit baffling.

Also, pro tip: if you're looking for sympathy don't compare your posting plight to the troubles of Jim Crow. Your analogy is so off base I can't even begin to address it. My advice? Go out and experience the world. You'll find that you lose nothing by NOT using the slur and others who are out there will benefit.

I knew this was going to come up, and I would like to point out that it would only be a valid counterpoint if I had tried to say that both situations were equally bad. I compared the logic behind the mentalities, not the severity of the circumstances themselves. Nice try though.
aLAiFi2.jpg
 

Indeed, that's usually the best way to handle it.  NG and CA are very similar I think in our approach to speech, even if I personally find the level of discourse in your channel is often a bit rougher than I like, I like the whole SJW/politically correct nonsense even less than rough/possibly racist remarks. Even with a real racist I'd rather try to have a conversation and see if I cant poke some information into some backroom of their brain and try to make them think.
 
Racists jokes bother me to some degree simply because it makes me look around the room and think 'ok there's a chance someone in here really got their feelings hurt' and there's no way to know if so or who. That's why I usually avoid telling them, particularly online. But I did say 'usually' and of course like most I dont feel as bad about telling jokes on one of my own ethnicities (and I have several, and no one here has any way to verify them, which is a whole different side issue)  or those of people close to me that I know will laugh rather than be offended (I have a TON of good Finn jokes - because I adore the Finns and have for years.) So it's really a very complicated issue and any policy or response that isnt quite nuanced is going to have problems IMOP.
 
After reading through the posts I can boil the stories down to the essentials, at least the bits that are essential to my point of view. MI6 says he posted something they perceived as racist, they removed it, he reposted it. He says that's true, but out of context - it was a joke of a sort many others posted many times with no one objecting and suddenly he is the bad guy and not even spoken to respectfully but quite the opposite, and so it was their handling of the situation and their disrespect, and inequitable treatment that resulted in his anger.
 
If we assume both parties are telling the truth (perhaps not the whole truth, but accurate from their point of view) then it sounds like a parting of the ways was necessary and may even benefit both parties, but certainly will benefit Shokkou.

I can accept this assessment.
 

People getting their panties in a bunch over words on a screen.*
 
Yep, this is Bob alright.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
* - That's both sides of this incredibly stupid argument.

As well as this one.
 

To be fair, Dave Chappelle is actually funny, you not so much. Other than that, Atlas/Mi-6 still sucks.

That is certainly a fair point. He also gets paid for his sense of humor. I also haven't really been cracking jokes in this thread, so I'm not entirely sure how large of a sample size you're working from.
 

spoiler alert if you unironically call people "SJWs" because they don't like the word !@#$%* you're a bit more racist than you'll ever admit.

I'd say it's the approach that makes a difference. It's one thing to be offended by something. It's not hard to go up to someone and say "hey, I don't appreciate that and I'd feel better if you didn't do it." People can misjudge their audience and think it's ok to say something that someone might not be comfortable with. I had an issue in Invicta where there was a poll about something and one of the options was ice cream flavors. There was no mint chocolate chip option, so I made a brief post about how egregious that was and how I was going to overthrow the corrupt system that would deny people their right to choose the glory that is mint chocolate chip. I quoted Che Guevara and everything and posted an image of the Oklahoma City bombing. I made the (apparently) incorrect assumption that this incident was far enough in the past that referencing it wouldn't be an issue. A member took issue with it, contacted me to say they didn't think it was cool, and I changed the image to the burning of the Reichstag. I spoke with them again on IRC to ask them if we were good and they said yes. It's not that hard.

The point where one gets into the territory where they might be deserving of the "SJW" title is when they decide to instantly assume that the other person is an asshole who can't be reasoned with. Edited by Shokkou
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...