Latest War -- War chart and propaganda and such thread

[Sephiroth]

Well !@#$ I've got nothing planned this Saturday morning, so lets crunch some numbers as curious:
 
 
SRA vs Others:
 
Total Damage Dealt: 489,862 NS
Toal Damage Recieved: 515,560 NS
 
PPO vs Others:
 
Total Damage Dealt: 35,473 NS
Toal Damage Recieved: 59,382 NS
 
Kashmir vs Others:
 
Total Damage Dealt: 188,112 NS
Toal Damage Recieved: 196,201 NS
 
TLB vs Others:
 
Total Damage Dealt: 3,081 NS
Toal Damage Recieved: 11,185 NS
 
Overall Damage:
 
Total Damage Dealt: 716,528 NS
Toal Damage Recieved: 771,143 NS
 
Difference in favour of Others: 54,615 NS
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Note: All stats are from the Dreamweaver incident (Since 6/7/15) and "Others" are Methrage and Co....Damages have been deducted for and against by nations non affiliated to either side.

Thanks for putting this together, I was about to say it would be nice if someone did have the time. I guess the Dream War is fitting in SRA is dreaming if they think they are winning.

SRA Total Damage Recieved: 515,560 NS

I wonder how long they will keep grinding themselves down to get try getting the other side to surrender. That's almost as much NS as they had before most of it became composed of ghosts.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

I'm as tempted to post stats as anyone - but the stats are really meaningless.

 

We're defending ourselves from a vicious attack and a vicious setup. All the vicious lies these asses post here only strengthen our resolve to do what we have to do. The fact that I'm able to tear apart the nations they send against me relatively handily, even outnumbered 3-5:1, and sustain that performance week after week, month after month - well it's not a bad thing, for sure. But it would be a mistake to focus on it.

 

I'd still resist these asses to the end, whether I had a warchest or not, whether I could fight or not. Such lies, such hypocrites, I have not faced the like here since the days of the Continuum. Sometimes evil is where you expected it, and sometimes it's in the last place you accepted it, but either way it is my belief that it must be resisted and never acceded to.

[Sephiroth]

I'm as tempted to post stats as anyone - but the stats are really meaningless.
 
We're defending ourselves from a vicious attack and a vicious setup. All the vicious lies these asses post here only strengthen our resolve to do what we have to do. The fact that I'm able to tear apart the nations they send against me relatively handily, even outnumbered 3-5:1, and sustain that performance week after week, month after month - well it's not a bad thing, for sure. But it would be a mistake to focus on it.
 
I'd still resist these asses to the end, whether I had a warchest or not, whether I could fight or not. Such lies, such hypocrites, I have not faced the like here since the days of the Continuum. Sometimes evil is where you expected it, and sometimes it's in the last place you accepted it, but either way it is my belief that it must be resisted and never acceded to.

Indeed, the only stats that really matter to us is damaging the enemy who attacked us and been keeping us at war. Edited July 25, 2015 by Methrage

[Walshington]

Well !@#$ I've got nothing planned this Saturday morning, so lets crunch some numbers as curious:

 

 

SRA vs Others:

 

Total Damage Dealt: 489,862 NS

Toal Damage Recieved: 515,560 NS

 

PPO vs Others:

 

Total Damage Dealt: 35,473 NS

Toal Damage Recieved: 59,382 NS

 

Kashmir vs Others:

 

Total Damage Dealt: 188,112 NS

Toal Damage Recieved: 196,201 NS

 

TLB vs Others:

 

Total Damage Dealt: 3,081 NS

Toal Damage Recieved: 11,185 NS

 

Overall Damage:

 

Total Damage Dealt: 716,528 NS

Toal Damage Recieved: 771,143 NS

 

Difference in favour of Others: 54,615 NS

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Note: All stats are from the Dreamweaver incident (Since 6/7/15) and "Others" are Methrage and Co....Damages have been deducted for and against by nations non affiliated to either side.

 

Excellent work, thanks!  Perhaps even Lord Hitchcock can see how these numbers differ from the Lyrics tool version.

 

Couple questions:

1.  Who is TLB?

2.  Do you have stats the other way?  SRA VS. CA, SRA VS. MINC, SRA VS. LN?

 

Appreciate the work, The Rebel.

[Lord Hitchcock]

Excellent work, thanks!  Perhaps even Lord Hitchcock can see how these numbers differ from the Lyrics tool version.
 
Couple questions:
1.  Who is TLB?
2.  Do you have stats the other way?  SRA VS. CA, SRA VS. MINC, SRA VS. LN?
 
Appreciate the work, The Rebel.

RI15 is the best tool I've seen gor war stats.

On another note... Wait for it... 'In' before Walsh spins the numbers

[Walshington]

RI15 is the best tool I've seen gor war stats.

On another note... Wait for it... 'In' before Walsh spins the numbers

 

Absolutely RI5 is the best.  I asked, but unfortunately they are not tracking this war, and apparently  are not planning to.  A shame.

 

I am willing to accept The Rebel's numbers -- after all, I could go and add them up myself but will just wait until the war is done because it seems to take me a long time. Nothing more insufferable than a person who questions evidence, but won't do the legwork required to actually prove it --  I find that is often because they know they cannot, and want to save themselves the humiliation of being proven wrong.  Much better for them to deal with baseless accusation rather than facts seems to be the school of thought.

 

Now -- shouldn't you either be lying about the terms in the other thread, or posting propaganda in this one? 

 

Thanks again, The Rebel.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Walshington

[Auctor]

Lower tier damage is inherently "spin". It should be nearly impossible for alliances on the losing side to take less damage than ones on the winning side if they are at least moderately active and have been knocked into such a state that soft damage(infra, land) is mostly gone. After all, one can launch nukes at as many nations as it as at war with in a day, but can only eat one per day; as well as those nukes only being able to damage NS that actually exists.

[the rebel]

Lower tier damage is inherently "spin". It should be nearly impossible for alliances on the losing side to take less damage than ones on the winning side if they are at least moderately active and have been knocked into such a state that soft damage(infra, land) is mostly gone. After all, one can launch nukes at as many nations as it as at war with in a day, but can only eat one per day; as well as those nukes only being able to damage NS that actually exists.

 

That's true the outnumbered side will take proportionately less damage over time as they have more targets than the larger side to do potential damage to.

[Walshington]

Lower tier damage is inherently "spin". It should be nearly impossible for alliances on the losing side to take less damage than ones on the winning side if they are at least moderately active and have been knocked into such a state that soft damage(infra, land) is mostly gone. After all, one can launch nukes at as many nations as it as at war with in a day, but can only eat one per day; as well as those nukes only being able to damage NS that actually exists.

 

I see your point, but would disagree that it is "spin" per se.  Numbers are numbers and stats are stats -- it is how people manipulate the numbers that produce the spin.  Damage statistics are but one metric to measure a war by, and certainly don't tell the whole story.  It is when people contextualize them inappropriately that they become propaganda.

 

I like the raw data myself.  Most alliance leaders, in their heart of hearts, know what they mean and what they don't. You can lie to others, but not to yourself.  That said, I would prefer to be ahead in these stats, obviously.

 

Which is probably what you meant.

[Auctor]

I mainly mean that a mosquito stinging an elephant might cause more pain than a elephant that stomps on a mosquito but that mosquito's still in a lot worse shape comparatively.

These damage stats without context are kind of one of the sillier additions to CN to date. I miss the good old days when we just got our damage stats inflated by pure imagination because we just pulled the numbers out of our butts.

[the rebel]

Couple questions:

1.  Who is TLB?

2.  Do you have stats the other way?  SRA VS. CA, SRA VS. MINC, SRA VS. LN?

 

Appreciate the work, The Rebel.

 

1. TLB is The Light Brigade, which is Margrave and another who are hitting Methrage.

 

 

SRA vs CA

 

Total Damage Dealt: 228,261 NS

Total Damage Recieved: 289,883 NS

 

SRA vs MINC

 

Total Damage Dealt: 124,025 NS

Total Damage Recieved: 106,789 NS

 

SRA vs LN

 

Total Damage Dealt: 93,539 NS

Total Damage Recieved: 99,095 NS

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

That's enough pen and paper work today...

[the rebel]

These damage stats without context are kind of one of the sillier additions to CN to date. I miss the good old days when we just got our damage stats inflated by pure imagination because we just pulled the numbers out of our butts.

 

For me its just a visual representation of how much money has been blown away, rather than the whose winning or losing based on this that and the other.

[Walshington]

 

1. TLB is The Light Brigade, which is Margrave and another who are hitting Methrage.

 

 

SRA vs CA

 

Total Damage Dealt: 228,261 NS

Total Damage Recieved: 289,883 NS

 

SRA vs MINC

 

Total Damage Dealt: 124,025 NS

Total Damage Recieved: 106,789 NS

 

SRA vs LN

 

Total Damage Dealt: 93,539 NS

Total Damage Recieved: 99,095 NS

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

That's enough pen and paper work today...

 

Yeah, no kidding, I appreciate the effort.  I find it to be tedious work.

 

Thanks again.

 

EDIT:

Although, it adds up to this:

 

SRA dealt:

445,825

 

SRA received:

495,767

 

 

Which are worse numbers than you posted earlier:

 

 

SRA vs Others:

 

Total Damage Dealt: 489,862 NS

Toal Damage Recieved: 515,560 NS

 

 

Maybe that takes into account the mercenary/rogue alliance that Sigrun hired?

Edited July 25, 2015 by Walshington

[Neo Uruk]

I'm as tempted to post stats as anyone - but the stats are really meaningless.
 
We're defending ourselves from a vicious attack and a vicious setup. All the vicious lies

Vicious Lies & Dangerous Rumors, you say?

[murtibing]

In addition to the damage to the enemy NS, loss of membership should be also taken into consideration. Monsters Inc. already lost many memebers. More recently, Ub3rdude left Confederatio Aesir and joined Nordreich.

Edited July 25, 2015 by murtibing

[Walshington]

In addition to the damage to the enemy NS, loss of membership should be also taken into consideration. Monsters Inc. already lost many memebers. More recently, Ub3rdude left Confederatio Aesir and now he is in Nordreich.

 

Well, TBH their coalition at this point is Sigrun, Pulisher, Meth, Jonesing and Neptune, and the merc/rogue/contract guys.  There's a few others still engaged, and a runner or two we caught, but by and large I think that is the base of the opposing coalition.  Heavily wondered nations that can do damage, particularly at their current NS level and in 3 v 1 situations.  The totals are not surprising.

 

They are, however, what they are  Only a fool or a liar would argue otherwise, or try to argue that The Rebel picked this moment in time on purpose to make the levels more palatable to the other coalition.

[Sephiroth]

Lower tier damage is inherently "spin". It should be nearly impossible for alliances on the losing side to take less damage than ones on the winning side if they are at least moderately active and have been knocked into such a state that soft damage(infra, land) is mostly gone. After all, one can launch nukes at as many nations as it as at war with in a day, but can only eat one per day; as well as those nukes only being able to damage NS that actually exists.

There is no spin in raw data. Many SRA nations like Xanth's nation and others are in a tier to low for me to fight. So not all their damage is high tier damage or not all ours low tier damage. Also I think everyone knows each nation can only receive one nuke.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Methrage

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Youre right context is missing. I could fill in context on some of those wars if you want, with you know, spy reports showing warchests (or more often their absence) daily war logs showing bombs dropping, ground assaults, defeat alerts, etc. and anyone that was motivated to do the math could determine just how hard of a bill lock e.g. dreamweaver is in. Is that really what you want me to do?

 

Frankly I try to have more decorum.

[the rebel]

Which are worse numbers than you posted earlier:
 
Maybe that takes into account the mercenary/rogue alliance that Sigrun hired?

Yeah I noticed the difference between the two totals before posting, but realised because you specified just them 3 alliances only for comparison... It doesn't take into account: Militaires Sans Frontieres, aNiMaLz or any that may of switched and were hunted, for example Dark Horse Clan. Edited July 25, 2015 by the rebel

[Sephiroth]

Youre right context is missing. I could fill in context on some of those wars if you want, with you know, spy reports showing warchests (or more often their absence) daily war logs showing bombs dropping, ground assaults, defeat alerts, etc. and anyone that was motivated to do the math could determine just how hard of a bill lock e.g. dreamweaver is in. Is that really what you want me to do?

 

Frankly I try to have more decorum.

I don't think that's needed, SRA wouldn't be needing to keep bringing in more ghosts to fight for them if their losses weren't heavy. No need to waste your time over comments made by those disconnected to the whole situation.

[Walshington]

I don't think that's needed, SRA wouldn't be needing to keep bringing in more ghosts to fight for them if their losses weren't heavy. No need to waste your time over comments made by those disconnected to the whole situation.

 

[gowfanatic]

I'd also like to point out, as a ghost, I've only fought 2 wars. One of which was nothing more than a quad blitz. Quite a few of us ghosts didn't really get to do much :( 

 

why'd you have to sell down sigrun?! we could have had so much fun! 

[Sephiroth]

Image

I didn't hire any mercenaries, Sigrun was thoughtful enough to do that. Also accepting ghosts wasn't the evidence of heavy damage, its how few fighting nations in good shape you have left.
 
This is a list of the nations I believe to be actual SRA members. Shakespear and Raison are out of range to fight. Most of the nations above 30k infra don't have much fight in them, neither do most of your nations knocked into the micro tier.

shakespeare 188k NS

Raison 97k NS

Willshire 42k NS

Tataween 40k NS

Soviet Elk 36k NS (ZI)

Walshington 33k NS (1k Infra)

Smurth 32k NS (1k Infra)

Californya 31k NS (Almost ZI, Inactive 3 Weeks)

Dreamweaver 28k NS (ZI, Active Last Week)

Artic Cheese World 15k NS (Active Last Week)

xrayban 13k NS

Thebigharbour 10k NS

Tornado 9k NS (Active Last Week)

Justland 8k NS (Active 3 Weeks Ago)

Logania 8k NS

Morkoth 8k NS

Tyria 7k NS

Killian 5k NS

Xanth 4k NS

Sarms Destiny 3k NS

Four Percent 2k NS

 

Out the nations you have in range of me, there is Artic Cheese World, xrayban and thebigharbour. That would leave 9 of your members to small for me to fight & 9 to big for me to fight right now. Considering I've been at constant war for over a month, for half of your nations not in range to be well below my range shows you have taken heavy losses. Beyond the 2 nations you have above range to fight, your entire alliance is taking heavy damage.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Methrage

[Walshington]

While that reads like propaganda, I'm not sure you intended it as such.  This is the propaganda thread.

 

Propaganda is taking this:

 

I don't think that's needed, SRA wouldn't be needing to keep bringing in more ghosts to fight for them if their losses weren't heavy. No need to waste your time over comments made by those disconnected to the whole situation.

 

 

I didn't hire any mercenaries, Sigrun was thoughtful enough to do that. Also accepting ghosts wasn't the evidence of heavy damage, its how few fighting nations in good shape you have left.

 

And turning it into this:

 

[Sephiroth]

While that reads like propaganda, I'm not sure you intended it as such.  This is the propaganda thread.

I didn't intend any of it as propaganda and I don't think you can deny you've taken heavy losses this war. I'm just trying to keep you in touch reality. Notice in the first quote I said "you wouldn't need to", you guy's obviously need to in order to keep fighting. The last 2 SRA nations you guys got to declare on me were a SPATR nation and TCA nation.

 

Dream in his initial attack after selling down and Smurth after his huge sell down are the only 2 actual SRA members I think I've been declared on this war. The rest have been PPO, TCA, Kashmir or SPATR.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Methrage