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Schattenmann

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Or maybe they feel that a throwaway comment made by an ODN member in private requires no public response.


If only more people would avoid ignoring this particular aspect of the debate while making their points...

I must say I'm thoroughly moved by the concern displayed by uninvolved parties in regard to "what will ODN's allies do?": to see so many participants in this debate chewing their nails and salivating at the thought of ODN losing all or some of its allies due to one member (bucovina) making an undoubtedly rash post in a conversation on WTF's boards truly reeks of wishful thinking at best, and desperation at worst. But please, do continue chewing: you'll reach your elbows before something actually interesting happens.
 

Let's be honest, this hype is for nothing. ODN isn't going to do anything, because that would require ODN actually taking initiative on something that requires independent thought and not just carefully tip-toeing in the footsteps of a horrible one-sided dog pile.


This post could maybe be taken as a debate-worthy point, had it not come from you.
 

Oh come on, 2 of the last 3 wars ODN came in on the losing side and took a beating.


This doesn't suit the narrative, therefore it can be safely ignored.

last week we were DBDC puppets, this week it's NPO...next week who knows?


In the meanwhile, our !@#$%*es as usual. Edited by Garion
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Regardless of which side you are on ( or if you don't have a dog in the fight) I believe this Schatt thread has delivered, good show. 

 

That being said, from the context of the debate, it's clear that ODN greatly underestimated WTF.  Charging into a discussion blind to the nature and culture of an alliance is pure short-sightedness, and can result in PR nightmares (like this one). It'd be wise for diplomats of all stripes to take a mental snapshot of this situation and keep it as a reminder of what one wishes to avoid in the nebulous world of foreign affairs.

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Its in the same embassy thread Schatt quoted CT.
 
 
And Mogar.  I actually agree with you.  You have a problem with how ODN does things, come at us.  We'll try to beat you down.  You try to beat us down.  We see who wins and then we move on.
 
 
This world would be  a lot better imo, if people fought wars for whatever reasons they wanted.  And then when it was settled shook hands and moved on.
 
 
 
 
And hey.  Being serious.  If you think DBDCs actions are wrong thats OK.  You can try to stop them.  But to start doing other wrong actions to do it, that's a mistake.  Even if you felt DBDC were evil (I think them in the right herE) I would remind you:
 
“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”
 
I don't actually think DBDC has done anything wrong.  But ive no issue with those that do fighting DBDC and trying to stop them.  You should do so if you feel they are in the wrong.  And if I think them right, I will try to stop you.  We see who wins and that's war.
 
 But if you start using your views of DBDC as "evil" as justification to comit actions you would have a problem with them doing to you... then you've screwed up.  And you deserve those very actions to be committed on YOUR nations. And you lose the right to complain when I start forcing XX nations to disband.
 
Period.  However you justify or spin it.
 
And I somehow feel certain there would be very few here who were OK if what WTF is demanding of DBDC nations tyring to surrender was done to any other alliance by DBDC.
 
 
 
That said, I feel i've made my point.  Gotten it across. And we are now going in circles.  So i'll take my leave.

Just as ODN has a right to defend itself, so does WTF. Trying to rob WTF of this would be a terrible thing to try doing to another alliance. DBDC might of saw WTF as soft, since they were building up their nations for so long without wrecking them in pointless wars. Now WTF gets to show people why they have kept building up their nations, so they can give any alliance attacking them a war they won't forget.

DBDC nations losing and trying to surrender is news to me, but WTF should be free to have their fill before peacing. If WTF was nation building to be in the top rankings before, those days are gone for now. Now they exist as a war machine, so they might as well enjoy the war now that its been brought to them. WTF didn't choose when or how it started, but they can at least decide when they want to end it.
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Indeed Margrave I agree with you. The thing is ODN were the ones to say if they came they would come with 1000 nations. Now the world is waiting to see which allies support ODN's threat and which do not.

STA and GATO have had members state clearly they do not. The rest have remained totally silent on their position and so must be assumed to support ODN's threat until they say otherwise.

 

Cool your heels Jim.

 

I'm just some guy. Ultimately, whatever we would do would be up to the entire General Assembly. Democracy, I'm not Gov, etc.

 

Like I said I'm not against raiding or going to war for whatever reason you like.... You just have to handle the heat for your decisions. I am mostly against anyone "rescuing" DBDC. It's not that I don't like them or that they have ever done my alliance wrong. They wanted to play. They are big boys...supposedly the terror of Bob.... Let them handle it......

 

I understand friendship and in this case if you are DBDC's friend and they want you to help...it's on you to drag your own alliance to that table. I don't recall DBDC making any overtures of friendship to GATO. 

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I was reticent about posting, but your speech is geared toward an international audience because you're on CNtel and because you know we're watching.  I for one find your entire speech to be . . . wild.
ODN is not the oldest democracy, that's GATO.  ODNistas vote at rates as low as 13% (during war, when activity is highest); Polaris is an autocracy with an elected council, our last election saw 32% participation.
ODN is not in the slightest a "defensive" alliance.  You are an alliance that "defends" allies by disregarding all circumstance.  When MK attacked NPO for no reason except to curb their growth, you followed.  Now DBDC has attacked WTF for no reason except to remove them and curb their growth, you will follow.  In this last war, too, begun by bald aggression to deliberately start a global war, ODN was right there beside its allies where it will always be and where it belongs.  You are an aggressive alliance to your core because you do what you're asked and "don't let friends burn."
ODN is not an alliance that favors white peace.  You favor whatever your allies favor (as you've said here over and over) and if your allies want reps, ODN's military, membership, and government are behind them as you did in the Doom House-NPO War.  If ODN is in any way "for" white peace right now it is because that is simply the prevailing sentiment and ODN is nothing if not followers, because your elementary "friends" foreign policy precludes all judgement or autonomy.  It doesn't matter why, it only matters who.  And as your longest-serving Secretary General OsRavan has said in a rare moment of clarity, "When you back something with military force in a coalition you don't get to shift the blame."

 

Now, THIS had me in stitches :)

 

 

S1Zv2CE.jpg

 

And especially this one....^^

 

Now is ODN seriously trying to find an excuse to fight for DBDC?? And they call themselves a "defensive alliance" ??? Well, whatever....the best defense is offense after all... Looks like everything is a matter of perspective...

 

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Cool your heels Jim.

 

I'm just some guy. Ultimately, whatever we would do would be up to the entire General Assembly. Democracy, I'm not Gov, etc.

 

Like I said I'm not against raiding or going to war for whatever reason you like.... You just have to handle the heat for your decisions. I am mostly against anyone "rescuing" DBDC. It's not that I don't like them or that they have ever done my alliance wrong. They wanted to play. They are big boys...supposedly the terror of Bob.... Let them handle it......

 

I understand friendship and in this case if you are DBDC's friend and they want you to help...it's on you to drag your own alliance to that table. I don't recall DBDC making any overtures of friendship to GATO. 

 

While what you say, in practice may be correct, I just want to point out that Thriller did not "handle the heat." They tucked tail and disbanded. So coming from you, it really is ineffectual commentary. If you do not practice what you preach, do not preach it, memories are long.

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As far as I can tell, WTF is succeeding in their goals. Not only have they have managed to consistently cause enough damage to Cuba for the past 49 days that his incoming tech/donations/GA wins are not enough to increase his tech levels, they've destroyed 14.4k of his tech. He has lost roughly 260 days worth of incoming tech so far. That's a pretty impressive accomplishment fighting against the strongest nation in the game with the second highest amount of tech. Yes, he's done *far* more damage to WTF than they've done to him. Their damage is spread across X nations, they can rebuild their tech X times faster than he can. They are also not the type to use their nation size to declare war on whoever they feel like whenever they feel like, so the damage done to Cuba is far more important to his foreign policy than theirs is.

As for ODN's shenanigans and threats, I'd almost buy the "throw away comment by random member".. if their gov immediately corrected his statement in the embassy. I don't have an account on WTF's forums so I'm not sure if they did or not.

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So Let's Cut the Crap, shall we?
 
The central point, which you wilfully seem to be missing, is that WTF's stand currently consists of offensive wars on about 4 DBDC nations. And respect to them for that. But let's be frank here, who is really hurting most in all this? WTF is taking an obscene amount of damage and doing a negligible amount in return - check the war stats. There is a vocal group talking forever war (enough to attack 4 DBDC nations), but we wanted to see how deep this went. As you might be aware WTF does not have a government. 

 

So, yes, we'd like to see an end to this war, yes DBDC are our ally, and yes there is some collective sympathy for WTF - even if they are damn neutrals. But at least we are attempting to help resolve this situation and are not posting shoddy, ego inflating, puff-pieces on the OWF that amount to little to more than a testament to the fact that you hate ODN, like to feel important and have difficulty with reading.

 
 
The Reality - (you read this as ʎʇılɐǝɹ)
 
We actually ended up having a productive a friendly dialogue, both privately and publicly that went on for a good length of time. And just to drive the point home, if anyone is still in doubt, let's just listen to what WTF have to say about ODN:

 

 

If you actually believed what you were typing, you'd be working on getting a treaty that gives something to WTF, say a declaration from DBDC that they admit aggression and will respect declarations of neutrality by all alliances, including WTF's, for an extended period.  Length to be negotiated but something along the lines of 6 months or more.

 

Or we can all sit back and watch while the last of the WTF nations in DBDC's range drop down to the point that they can no longer declare wars and this ends unproductively.

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If you actually believed what you were typing, you'd be working on getting a treaty that gives something to WTF, say a declaration from DBDC that they admit aggression and will respect declarations of neutrality by all alliances, including WTF's, for an extended period.  Length to be negotiated but something along the lines of 6 months or more.

 

Or we can all sit back and watch while the last of the WTF nations in DBDC's range drop down to the point that they can no longer declare wars and this ends unproductively.

Sorry, Hal, DBDC will not be recognizing your neutrality anytime soon, so I would approve of the first option if it freed their resources to focus on Val.

 

But the latter option is more likely. Inertia is always hard to break, and DBDC should look at WTF as a threat to their goals at this point.

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As far as I can tell, WTF is succeeding in their goals. Not only have they have managed to consistently cause enough damage to Cuba for the past 49 days that his incoming tech/donations/GA wins are not enough to increase his tech levels, they've destroyed 14.4k of his tech. He has lost roughly 260 days worth of incoming tech so far. That's a pretty impressive accomplishment fighting against the strongest nation in the game with the second highest amount of tech. Yes, he's done *far* more damage to WTF than they've done to him. Their damage is spread across X nations, they can rebuild their tech X times faster than he can. They are also not the type to use their nation size to declare war on whoever they feel like whenever they feel like, so the damage done to Cuba is far more important to his foreign policy than theirs is.

As for ODN's shenanigans and threats, I'd almost buy the "throw away comment by random member".. if their gov immediately corrected his statement in the embassy. I don't have an account on WTF's forums so I'm not sure if they did or not.

 

Well seeing as most of his tech was lost while fighting a 67k tech nation (who is 24k tech now?) and a nation that came out of inactive mode that had over 50k tech.  I would say that losing 14k tech and dishing out upwards to 70k tech in damage is pretty good but who am I to talk I am a scrub nation.

 

CT has lost about 2 years worth of tech.  Not including the 70k worth of land that he lost.  I again think Cuba won out on that as well but back to DBDC losing because an alliance finally stood up and fought longer than a week.

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Well seeing as most of his tech was lost while fighting a 67k tech nation (who is 24k tech now?) and a nation that came out of inactive mode that had over 50k tech.  I would say that losing 14k tech and dishing out upwards to 70k tech in damage is pretty good but who am I to talk I am a scrub nation.
 
CT has lost about 2 years worth of tech.  Not including the 70k worth of land that he lost.  I again think Cuba won out on that as well but back to DBDC losing because an alliance finally stood up and fought longer than a week.

You're missing the point, I think. As far as I can tell, it's not about winning or losing to WTF. It's about maximizing the cost that DBDC (and especially Cuba) will pay for their attacks. In 49 days, Cuba went from 82.5k tech to 68.1k while constantly receiving 100 tech aid packages and stealing tech in GAs he can virtually never lose because of his land. Considering how large of a nation Cuba has and all of the mechanics help to ensure he will do more damage by a wide margin, WTF is succeeding in what I perceive to be their goal. Does that mean they're "winnning"? No, but I don't think I've seen anyone from WTF discuss winning.
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You're missing the point, I think. As far as I can tell, it's not about winning or losing to WTF. It's about maximizing the cost that DBDC (and especially Cuba) will pay for their attacks. In 49 days, Cuba went from 82.5k tech to 68.1k while constantly receiving 100 tech aid packages and stealing tech in GAs he can virtually never lose because of his land. Considering how large of a nation Cuba has and all of the mechanics help to ensure he will do more damage by a wide margin, WTF is succeeding in what I perceive to be their goal. Does that mean they're "winnning"? No, but I don't think I've seen anyone from WTF discuss winning.

 

98% of WTF turtled.  He only got GA wins off the initial assault.  Again, 14k tech compared to 70k+ he dished out is of no comparison.  WTF is almost out of people to stagger him and when that happens he goes back to gaining tech while WTF has to constantly worry about nations that go above the top 250 line.  I think they have far exceeded in losing than Cuba has but again each person is going to see a win and loss differently.  

 

I do applaud WTF for their consistency and tenacity in throwing every able and willing body at Cuba and DBDC but it will all be in vain.

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While what you say, in practice may be correct, I just want to point out that Thriller did not "handle the heat." They tucked tail and disbanded. So coming from you, it really is ineffectual commentary. If you do not practice what you preach, do not preach it, memories are long.

Yet your in a bloc which is allied to something very similar to Thriller and we that remember know how much disdain you had for that alliance.

But here you are quiet about them.

There is a word for that my friend. Edited by the rebel
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Well seeing as most of his tech was lost while fighting a 67k tech nation (who is 24k tech now?) and a nation that came out of inactive mode that had over 50k tech.  I would say that losing 14k tech and dishing out upwards to 70k tech in damage is pretty good but who am I to talk I am a scrub nation.

 

CT has lost about 2 years worth of tech.  Not including the 70k worth of land that he lost.  I again think Cuba won out on that as well but back to DBDC losing because an alliance finally stood up and fought longer than a week.

 

I dont think anyone doubts Cuba deals more damage than he receives, or that anyone would be the slightest bit surprised by that.

 

Like every war, if you are judging by damage stats, there are no winners, everyone loses, every time, at best you can say one side loses less than the other. It's clearly not the right scorecard.

 

Only once you understand that war is politics, diplomacy by other means, do you have a way to win a war - and an idea of what a victory might mean. Victory is, quite simply, achieving your goals. Which is why it's so danged important to figure out what your goals are before you go declaring, of course. When you start a war without a clear goal you make it very difficult on yourself.

 

What did the doombirds want out of this war? If we take them at their word, and I have no reason not to, it was for 'fun.' So forget the stats - if the doombirds are having fun, they are achieving what they wanted out of this war, and if they are not, they are not. It's really as simple as that. 

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You need people like us. You need people like us so you can point your fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So what does that make you? The good guy? You're not good. You just know how to hide.  Your morals stretch and allow for anything to be done against the "bad guys", even things you previously have spoken out against, anything is allowed as long as its against the "bad guy".  You don't have a standard of behavior that everyone follows, you have your standard for "good guys" and anything goes against the "bad guys".

 

"Good guys" and "bad guys" is a childish reference, the real world is much more grey.

This would've been more impressive if it wasn't largely borrowed from the movie "Scarface". Then I just read the rest of the reply in the ramblings of a drunken Cuban and wondering if the odds were higher than 90% that you have the poster on your wall somewhere at home. Much like all the wannabe thugs that were always on MTVs "Cribs" series. Scarface is a terrible movie... quote Goodfellas, quote The Godfather (but not the third one, its as bad as Scarface) quote anything else that isn't an insult to acting or anyone of reasonable intelligence.

 



I take their silence to mean the opposite, to be fair Dajobo, I suspect even ODN would have difficulties passing the necessary vote to attack a WTF defending themselves against a tech raid.

All depends on how the story is spun and if the truth is told, WTF is quite evil after all.

 



Or maybe they feel that a throwaway comment made by an ODN member in private requires no public response.

Our diplomatic forums are public to anyone willing to create an account and look. We've never refused anyone we weren't at war with before this incident. And this time? we even accepted Cuba himself while at war with DBDC.

 



I don't see WTF as Suicidal, they merely have no intentions of a round 2, DBDC wants a fight and so WTF is giving them one.

Not to mention the fact they were warned this would be the outcome well in advance, yet refused to believe it. If you tell someone you are going to set their house on fire? And they don't listen to you? Whose fault is it?

 



 so I had no idea WTF has only 4 wars.

This is because many of the DBDC targets ran off to other alliances when they realized they were in a bad spot. Ran to peace mode. Or kept burning WC to buy up in attempts to stay out of range of the WTFers dragging their friends down, mysteriously even when prior war declaration we only made in game.

 

Or, maybe we're just waiting for ODN to make their move to see if they ignore the same warning DBDC was given.

 



That very much seems to be the case here, with what is clearly a not-so-subtle threat being earnestly defended as a TRUE ATTEMPT AT DIPLOMACY

Yes, because ODN feels that DBDC needs their help. Because the evil WTF apparently refused to make peace with a nation that has never asked for it, which is lie.

 

The fact he ran off to ODN of all alliances? is very... interesting. Yet ODN wasn't previously prompted at all to come sniffing around, nope.

 

ODN's one chance to start a new govt off successfully, apparently rests with them trying to take on what they view as a group of battle weary infra huggers who many say have never contributed anything significant to all of CN their entire existence. In all honesty though? We probably would allow their nations to surrender... if they asked nicely.

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This would've been more impressive if it wasn't largely borrowed from the movie "Scarface". Then I just read the rest of the reply in the ramblings of a drunken Cuban and wondering if the odds were higher than 90% that you have the poster on your wall somewhere at home. Much like all the wannabe thugs that were always on MTVs "Cribs" series. Scarface is a terrible movie... quote Goodfellas, quote The Godfather (but not the third one, its as bad as Scarface) quote anything else that isn't an insult to acting or anyone of reasonable intelligence.

 

All depends on how the story is spun and if the truth is told, WTF is quite evil after all.

 

Our diplomatic forums are public to anyone willing to create an account and look. We've never refused anyone we weren't at war with before this incident. And this time? we even accepted Cuba himself while at war with DBDC.

 

Not to mention the fact they were warned this would be the outcome well in advance, yet refused to believe it. If you tell someone you are going to set their house on fire? And they don't listen to you? Whose fault is it?

 

This is because many of the DBDC targets ran off to other alliances when they realized they were in a bad spot. Ran to peace mode. Or kept burning WC to buy up in attempts to stay out of range of the WTFers dragging their friends down, mysteriously even when prior war declaration we only made in game.

 

Or, maybe we're just waiting for ODN to make their move to see if they ignore the same warning DBDC was given.

 

Yes, because ODN feels that DBDC needs their help. Because the evil WTF apparently refused to make peace with a nation that has never asked for it, which is lie.

 

The fact he ran off to ODN of all alliances? is very... interesting. Yet ODN wasn't previously prompted at all to come sniffing around, nope.

 

ODN's one chance to start a new govt off successfully, apparently rests with them trying to take on what they view as a group of battle weary infra huggers who many say have never contributed anything significant to all of CN their entire existence. In all honesty though? We probably would allow their nations to surrender... if they asked nicely.

 

The Scarface reference was intentional because it fits.  You need people to call the bad guy so you can sit back and call yourselves good.  Perhaps not WTF as much as the anti DBDC crowd who is only supporting you because its anti DBDC. 

 

Nobody is calling WTF evil.  But just recognize that the only reason you get any support in this war is because its against DBDC, the most hated, respected, and feared alliance here right now.  Without them you'd simply be another page of stats that nobody cares about because you never use them.

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Well seeing as most of his tech was lost while fighting a 67k tech nation (who is 24k tech now?) and a nation that came out of inactive mode that had over 50k tech.  I would say that losing 14k tech and dishing out upwards to 70k tech in damage is pretty good but who am I to talk I am a scrub nation.

 

CT has lost about 2 years worth of tech.  Not including the 70k worth of land that he lost.  I again think Cuba won out on that as well but back to DBDC losing because an alliance finally stood up and fought longer than a week.

I don't have a horse in this race aside from watching from the sidelines with mixed feelings of admiration for WTF, some satisfaction seeing DBDC get a dose of their own medicine, and disbelief/confusion at ODN. That said, I've never seen the stats of this war quantified, if those stats are true, that is just...AWESOME on Cuba's part, well deserving of a nod. /me nods. I've never fought in the upper tiers, never been able to climb out of the mid tier, but those stats are amazing.  But I think EViLOnE has a good point below...

 

You're missing the point, I think. As far as I can tell, it's not about winning or losing to WTF. It's about maximizing the cost that DBDC (and especially Cuba) will pay for their attacks. In 49 days, Cuba went from 82.5k tech to 68.1k while constantly receiving 100 tech aid packages and stealing tech in GAs he can virtually never lose because of his land. Considering how large of a nation Cuba has and all of the mechanics help to ensure he will do more damage by a wide margin, WTF is succeeding in what I perceive to be their goal. Does that mean they're "winnning"? No, but I don't think I've seen anyone from WTF discuss winning.

From what I've gathered, WTF indeed does not seem to care one way or another about winning or losing. At this point, it appears all they care about is causing as much damage to DBDC as they can, for as long as they can. It does not matter to them how badly they perform against individual nations such as Cuba, as impressive as his performance may be. In their eyes, and it seems to be the case to myself, DBDC has bit off more than they can chew (unless they get some help) and I don't think they thought things would go on like this. WTF's tenacity has certainly taken a lot of people by surprise.

 

 

98% of WTF turtled.  He only got GA wins off the initial assault.  Again, 14k tech compared to 70k+ he dished out is of no comparison.  WTF is almost out of people to stagger him and when that happens he goes back to gaining tech while WTF has to constantly worry about nations that go above the top 250 line.  I think they have far exceeded in losing than Cuba has but again each person is going to see a win and loss differently.  

 

I do applaud WTF for their consistency and tenacity in throwing every able and willing body at Cuba and DBDC but it will all be in vain.

In fairness, as impressive as the stats are, that damage is cumulative, whereas Cuba's damage isn't. WTF may be running out of people to stagger him, but Cuba is also running out of cash XD, and DBDC is running out of nukes. That's gonna be a problem real soon. 

 

In fairness to ODN, as much as everyone likes to poke fun at the situation they are in, I don't think all of the comments made in the WTF embassy can be taken too seriously. But Maybe ODN will prove us all wrong :P The talk about a 1000 nation army was clearly said in anger and has no merit. But I did read the thread and just a few posts in it does look like OS himself is making veiled threats to WTF. 

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The Scarface reference was intentional because it fits.  You need people to call the bad guy so you can sit back and call yourselves good.  Perhaps not WTF as much as the anti DBDC crowd who is only supporting you because its anti DBDC. 

 

Nobody is calling WTF evil.  But just recognize that the only reason you get any support in this war is because its against DBDC, the most hated, respected, and feared alliance here right now.  Without them you'd simply be another page of stats that nobody cares about because you never use them.

I would HOPE it was intentional... no one could possibly come up with dialog THAT bad on their own a second time I would think. After all, it's just a retread of the whole idea of if there were no devil, could there be a god?

 

I'm not so sure "feared" should be in that description, peacocking or chest thumping is a fine thing... but it has to have some believability to it. If DBDC we as feared as you might want to believe? Everyone in the top 250 would just sit in peace mode and shiver in their boots. WTF certainly doesnt fear DBDC, after all, this is just a game. We knew you were coming eventually, and when your offer of peace came at the ten day mark it was made clear then that we didn't fear you.

 

And we've always been completely fine with no one caring about us, apparently not everyone gets the fact that being told so for the 400th time means just as little as the 1st.

Edited by Asa Phillips
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You're missing the point, I think. As far as I can tell, it's not about winning or losing to WTF. It's about maximizing the cost that DBDC (and especially Cuba) will pay for their attacks. In 49 days, Cuba went from 82.5k tech to 68.1k while constantly receiving 100 tech aid packages and stealing tech in GAs he can virtually never lose because of his land. Considering how large of a nation Cuba has and all of the mechanics help to ensure he will do more damage by a wide margin, WTF is succeeding in what I perceive to be their goal. Does that mean they're "winnning"? No, but I don't think I've seen anyone from WTF discuss winning.

From what I've gathered, WTF indeed does not seem to care one way or another about winning or losing. At this point, it appears all they care about is causing as much damage to DBDC as they can, for as long as they can. It does not matter to them how badly they perform against individual nations such as Cuba, as impressive as his performance may be. In their eyes, and it seems to be the case to myself, DBDC has bit off more than they can chew (unless they get some help) and I don't think they thought things would go on like this. WTF's tenacity has certainly taken a lot of people by surprise.

Everyone's always suggesting Sun Tzu's The Art of War as a resource.

In this instance, if you want to know what's happening, I'd suggest another tome.

CHE01.jpg  I've had mine since 1969 and it has always served me well.

Don't know if there's an online version or not.

==================================================================
And ... YES! This forum does have an ignore feature. :D

That will simplify things for me a bit. (as well as helping control my temper)  ;)
 

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From what I've gathered, WTF indeed does not seem to care one way or another about winning or losing. At this point, it appears all they care about is causing as much damage to DBDC as they can, for as long as they can. It does not matter to them how badly they perform against individual nations such as Cuba, as impressive as his performance may be.

What we care about? Is sticking to our word. If we prove a few people wrong along the way? That's swell. But no one can ever say we didn't carry though on what we said we would do from the start.

 

 

Everyone can talk damage all they want, and for the large part they are right. Cuba [i]had[/i] the highest tech in the game when this began. Hime being number two I believe, also got involved with harming WTF membership. But the alliance vs alliance damage total is obviously going to be seriously out of whack, because DBDC only had so many nations to damage, with nukes being the largest impact and nations only being able to receive one per day. Strictly on a nuke basis, 50 nukes on 50 nations will do more total damage that 20 nukes on 20 nations.

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