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Producers vs Parasites 2: Types of Nations


The Zigur

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I wasn't in Polar at the time, but if I recall correctly Polaris has fought back against every raid, as have a few other alliances. That's why DBDC has been so hell-bent on destroying Polaris all this time. They asked for Earth and Water, and they got kicked down a well.

Fought back with nukes? Do you even know the amount of bravery that is required to fire a nuke at +60k tech nations? Whats ironic is those who did everything they could to get peace to save their precious pixels, likely lost them during this war. ^_^

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Also, i just noticed they took away the land cap which was at 100k if i remember correctly. Is it possible to win a spy op against them?

 

Edit:

 

Doesn't look to be. Look at all the failed spy ops against Cuba. http://www.cybernations.net/search_spies.asp?searchstring=All&search=CubaQuerida&offset=0

 

Those spy ops must be quite expensive on a 870k NS nation when you're in anarchy.

 

Well not too high , only around 4 mill to assassinate generals.

 

It'd cost 35 mill to perform an IRS op and you'd likely lose it. Yeah, don't even try that one. :laugh: This amount also multiplies by number of days inactive. 24 days would cost 83.7 mill.

 

I hope the neutrals have saved enough. ^_^

Edited by Daenerys Targaryen
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6mil/100 tech rate forces buyers to stagnate in lower tiers. It amplifies dmg. Unless you're consistently using that tech to go raid, and only a very small minority are, it's not doing much for you economically after 5k levels. Also, to do a lot of damage requires a lot of tech.

 

A nation using proper growth techniques can very quickly grow to a level where it can sustain itself economically on a 6mil/200 tech rate. Under 90 days isn't out of the question. It's not using hidden knowledge we don't all have access to, it's simple matter of discipline and making the right, already preordained choices. The very best thing that nation can do for its alliance afterwards is to pump tech upward to nations that can sustain wars and do more damage. Even in alliances not prioritizing the growth of their upper tiers, getting their nations over the benchmark levels for getting things like WRC and utilizing EMP is a significant damage boost. Alliances should want their nations doing significant damage on the individual level.

 

A significant numerical or tactical advantage in one tier, be it uppers or lowers does not remove the very real benefit of doing heavy damage in the middle. Getting those mids to 10-15k tech keeps them out of the top 250 ranks but makes them scary as heck in high concentrations. 40-60 of those guys can eat their way down through a lot of guys before being spent v. long term mediocre nations in the 5-8k tech range that will drop their tech and sit in the cheap seats grinding up infra that'll be replaced with an aid drop.

 

I suppose it depends on how you define mid-tier. 10k-15k tech, in my opinion, is essentially upper tier, and that's a realm where Polaris will most likely be heavily outnumbered long term anyway. It seems to me that it would be fruitless to cut back on 9/100 tech deals to pump nations up to a range where they are heavily outnumbered by Doomsphere regardless of damage output.

 

Again, I in no way represent Polar fiscal policy, but I've always viewed the mid-tier as 20k-50k NS or so, and anything above that as upper tier. I believe Polaris and any other alliance can be perfectly self sufficient without any 50k+ NS nations. There is always a shortage of tech dealers in the game and it makes much more sense to pump extra resources into the low tier than the upper tier, since active low-tier nations are relatively rare compared to active upper tier nations.

 

You note that an aid drop can quickly repair damage in the low tier (<20k NS), and while that is true that tells only half the story. First of all, that aid is quickly dissipated during wartime. In my nation's wars alone, your side has squandered countless tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions, which I have quickly plundered, spied away or otherwise negated. And I'm only around 5k NS or less most of the time.

 

Psychologically speaking, low tier and even mid-tier nations on your side are, on average, of lesser quality than Polar low tier nations, and that is partially a reflection of economic priorities... Many alliances on your side consider low tier nations to be irrelevant or expendable, and only necessary for tech exploitation at 6/200 or 6/300 rates.

 

Polaris has attracted alot of very experienced low tier fighters from movements like Vox Populi, Cult of Justicia, Nuclear Proliferation League and NONE, and that trend will only continue going forward from here.

Edited by Tywin Lannister
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Fought back with nukes? Do you even know the amount of bravery that is required to fire a nuke at +60k tech nations? Whats ironic is those who did everything they could to get peace to save their precious pixels, likely lost them during this war. ^_^

 

Yeah, I may be wrong, but I have followed DBDC's aggression closely since their attack against TDO during the Mushqaeda war and I believe Polaris has nuked back during each DBDC raid.

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Yeah, I may be wrong, but I have followed DBDC's aggression closely since their attack against TDO during the Mushqaeda war and I believe Polaris has nuked back during each DBDC raid.

No one can dispute Polars bravery.

All those crying about not doing anything earlier while they sat on their hands and snuggled up to Doomsphere have no right to call out Polar for anything.

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Yeah, I may be wrong, but I have followed DBDC's aggression closely since their attack against TDO during the Mushqaeda war and I believe Polaris has nuked back during each DBDC raid.

 

I seem to recall them taking a lot of flak for laying on their backs while DBDC made raids through their nations. Calls asking why they wouldn't make an effort to stop it. 

Edited by Rayvon
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Mr. Lannister,

I will keep my involvement here limited as I believe the truth will be easier to swallow, if I spoon feed it to you one step at a time. I have three questions and my reply will be based on your answer to those questions.

1) Do you believe in the founding philosophy of the Order, Francosism?
2) What is your definition of an alliance, in your national sovereignty point?
3) Do you believe in a capitalist society, or a controlled communist?

Sincerely,
Joseph M. Black

Edited by Joseph Black
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Mr. Lannister,

I will keep my involvement here limited as I believe the truth will be easier to swallow, if I spoon feed it to you one step at a time. I have three questions and my reply will be based on your answer to those questions.

1) Do you believe in the founding philosophy of the Order, Francosism?
2) What is your definition of an alliance, in your national sovereignty point?
3) Do you believe in a capitalist society, or a controlled communist?

Sincerely,
Joseph M. Black

 

1. I consider myself a Francoist, since learning about it from Vladimir in 2008 and replicating it in several alliances. However, Polaris is not (philosophically) Francoist and it's not something I push here.

2. An alliance is a social contract between nations who cede authority to a sovereign institution (usually an alliance govt) to escape the state of nature.

3. Capitalism and Communism does not socially apply to our world and only exists as concepts in regulating our own nations (ooc: in game).

Edited by Tywin Lannister
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They're being forced to stagnate in the lower tiers. This will just make all those currently burning for Doom-sphere, burn more.

 

You clearly didn't read Tywin's post I quoted or my response to it so I'll show you directly what I was saying since clearly you didn't get it...

 

Tywin said this:

 

I'm comfortable with a solid 3k-4k infrastructure though, don't really feel the need to build beyond that.

 

He, by his own volition, is choosing to not develop his nation out of the lower tier. I simply was pointing out that people would possibly minimally take him seriously if he actually lead his "crusades" from the front by growing to a point where he could have some skin in the game, and actually be somewhat relevant in his "crusades" he constantly blathers on about.

 

Otherwise all his talk is, as Shakespeare so eloquently put it, "...a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."  Hence why most people, even many in his won coalition choose to ignore his blathering.

 

Edit: Grammar.

Edited by Monty of the Herm
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Lulzicide is much easier when you stick to the low tier though.

It's too bad you can't ZI a single nation of DBDC's main tech sellers(DS) despite 'choosing to stay in the lower tier', though.

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You clearly didn't read Tywin's post I quoted or my response to it so I'll show you directly what I was saying since clearly you didn't get it...

 

Tywin said this:

 

He, by his own volition, is choosing to not develop his nation out of the lower tier. I simply was pointing out that people would possibly minimally take him seriously if he actually lead his "crusades" from the front by growing to a point where he could have some skin in the game, and actually be somewhat relevant in his "crusades" he constantly blathers on about.

 

Otherwise all his talk is, as Shakespeare so eloquently put it, "...a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."  Hence why most people, even many in his won coalition choose to ignore his blathering.

 

Edit: Grammar.

I don't care what Tywin is doing or will do. I said they're (as in the XX/AF sphere) is being forced to stagnate in the lower tiers, and the NPO sphere is made up of most of their mid-bottom tier, they will have to deal with XX/AF's top tier.

 

I don't give a damn what Tywins doing.

Edited by Daenerys Targaryen
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They could start with this guy.

That's pretty funny.

 

It's strange that almost exactly 24 hours (almost to the minute) after that nation was created it was sitting on the Fark AA and being sent a tech deal request from Shangri-La - An AA that has exactly one tech deal with someone sitting on the Fark AA.

 

I'm guessing someone's wife's cousin's dog walker's hairdresser may have created a nation and decided to use our AA to hide.

Edited by EViL0nE
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That's pretty funny.

 

It's strange that almost exactly 24 hours (almost to the minute) after that nation was created it was sitting on the Fark AA and being sent a tech deal request from Shangri-La - An AA that has exactly one tech deal with someone sitting on the Fark AA.

 

I'm guessing someone's wife's cousin's dog walker's hairdresser may have created a nation and decided to use our AA to hide.

 

I kind of wondered about that. Hence the reason I brought it up.

 

(When in doubt, just assume it's Rota. Remember the good old days when stuff like this was always Vader's fault? Ahhh....memories.)

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How long do you think he takes to compose these? There's no wrong answer.

It at-least its more interesting that all the rubbish his opponents can come up with. Majority of it calling Tywin names and saying how awful he is and that he should just give up. They even say they ignore him in his own thread.

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Nation types is not the same as nation ruler types and this seems to be more the latter.  All the "I Hate Tywin But I Post In His Threads Anyway" Fan Club comments aside, there is a basic fundamental flaw with the premise before he even starts with his descriptions.

 

Back the drawing board.

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At least he has a backbone, Hal.

 

Sadly no common sense...sort of like some of your allies.

 

EDIT: It takes a fair amount to understand when you are being played.  "But you played us!" you might say.  Perhaps those in Aftermath are unaware that they could have been out of the fight before Christmas,  but that didn't fit the agenda, did it?

Edited by ChairmanHal
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Sadly no common sense...sort of like some of your allies.

 

EDIT: It takes a fair amount to understand when you are being played.  "But you played us!" you might say.  Perhaps those in Aftermath are unaware that they could have been out of the fight before Christmas,  but that didn't fit the agenda, did it?

 

Hal, you've been defending the indefensible since you fled to Valhalla years ago. You'd think you were used to it by now.

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