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4000 Nukes


Dajobo

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As for you, Stewie, it's all good to bury your head in the sand and spout the same garbage war after war, but you're more intelligent than that. 
 
Change is easier said than done when the majority of this game holds onto grudges from 6-7 yrs ago and vehemently use that to &#$@-block any real large-scale change from happening. Still the same cookie cutter coalition wars, still the majority of top tiers being all on one side, and still largely the same group of people being targeted, again by the same group of people, with a couple of new faces thrown in under the pretense of it being anything less than maintaining the status quo that is the repetitiveness of Bob.


I don't think the majority of the game holds onto grudges from 6/7 years ago. I mean look at TOP-Polar, MK-TOP, TLR-NPO, NG-NPO, Grata/SF

Over the years these grudges come and go. There are many times where people discuss signing up former enemies, hell I've had a recent discussion internally about that exact thing. But the big question is that people won't sign new treaties if they know that their allies will not like it. Or they do if they don't care about that treaty anymore due to realpolitik reasons. (Hi Valhalla.)

I will put forward that there are various kindered spirits who don't hold onto grudges. I'll start going through them, at least from NG's PoV

Non Grata grudges since we formed

Grudge with NPO from a number of NG members who were put on PZI/EZI lists and forced to re-roll to evade the lists in 2007/2008 - WELP we're now allied.

Grudge with FARK from NEW-DF - non existant anymore from my experience, we enjoy cordial relations with their members in our embassies on both our boards.

Grudge with SF from PB-NpO - We enjoy cordial relations and now enjoy a Non Aggression agreement with their members and are extended allies to them via our friends in NSO and NATO.

Grudge with AFM from Dave - There are no bad feelings from our side, I can't speak for aftermath, but we wish them no harm. We have a NAP with CRAP & TTK from OBHF & the only reason we engaged SNX this war was due to a request to take strain of NPO so that we didn't have to throw more alliances onto CCC, CRAP or TTK turning it into a proper dogpile. Post war I actually look forward to continuing our good discussions with SNX on our forums and my senate comrades from TTK and CRAP.

Grudge with Polar - Nothing from our side anymore at a leadership level. We hoped to actually fight a war where we weren't engaging Polaris, however they decided to engage against us instead of against one of the many alliances currently fighting their allies in aftermath. I don't hold anything against them as at the end of the day, we did hit their ally. I wish them all the best in their war, I'm sorry that the counter lined up may well be as thorough against them as the counter against us was in EQ and Disorder however we are lucky, for once, that we had that luxury.



I could go through more if you want. But a lot of our grudges have only recently formed for various reasons.
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I could go through more if you want. But a lot of our grudges have only recently formed for various reasons.

 

Well, I don't think this thread is the place for such things, but my inbox or query is always available if you want to chat. And yeah, I exaggerated on the time somewhat, I'll give you that, but you know what I was talking about.

Edited by DeathAdder
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This has to be the first war where the key targets getting rolled have to hear not just about whatever grievance initiated the attack, and not just about not defending their allies quick enough for the likes of their attackers, but also about not calling in additional allies like they should, and about how they should've signed more treaties with the coalition now attacking them in order to prevent this war.

Why are you hitting yourself, why are you hitting yourself, why are you hitting yourself?

 

Same childish arguments they used on NPO post-Karma. 

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I don't think the majority of the game holds onto grudges from 6/7 years ago. I mean look at TOP-Polar, MK-TOP, TLR-NPO, NG-NPO, Grata/SF

Over the years these grudges come and go. There are many times where people discuss signing up former enemies, hell I've had a recent discussion internally about that exact thing. But the big question is that people won't sign new treaties if they know that their allies will not like it. Or they do if they don't care about that treaty anymore due to realpolitik reasons. (Hi Valhalla.)

I will put forward that there are various kindered spirits who don't hold onto grudges. I'll start going through them, at least from NG's PoV

Non Grata grudges since we formed

Grudge with NPO from a number of NG members who were put on PZI/EZI lists and forced to re-roll to evade the lists in 2007/2008 - WELP we're now allied.

Grudge with FARK from NEW-DF - non existant anymore from my experience, we enjoy cordial relations with their members in our embassies on both our boards.

Grudge with SF from PB-NpO - We enjoy cordial relations and now enjoy a Non Aggression agreement with their members and are extended allies to them via our friends in NSO and NATO.

Grudge with AFM from Dave - There are no bad feelings from our side, I can't speak for aftermath, but we wish them no harm. We have a NAP with CRAP & TTK from OBHF & the only reason we engaged SNX this war was due to a request to take strain of NPO so that we didn't have to throw more alliances onto CCC, CRAP or TTK turning it into a proper dogpile. Post war I actually look forward to continuing our good discussions with SNX on our forums and my senate comrades from TTK and CRAP.

Grudge with Polar - Nothing from our side anymore at a leadership level. We hoped to actually fight a war where we weren't engaging Polaris, however they decided to engage against us instead of against one of the many alliances currently fighting their allies in aftermath. I don't hold anything against them as at the end of the day, we did hit their ally. I wish them all the best in their war, I'm sorry that the counter lined up may well be as thorough against them as the counter against us was in EQ and Disorder however we are lucky, for once, that we had that luxury.



I could go through more if you want. But a lot of our grudges have only recently formed for various reasons.


I agree with Stewie on this. Polar hitting NG this war was about helping allies and the treaty web influencing where was the most viable point. We're very different alliances and may never treaty for that reason, but the grudge is dead.
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I agree with Stewie on this. Polar hitting NG this war was about helping allies and the treaty web influencing where was the most viable point. We're very different alliances and may never treaty for that reason, but the grudge is dead.

 

I have to kinda disagree with this a bit .. maybe with current Leaderships the grudges may have passed but there maybe up and comers that may still hold a grudge and bide their time that the become influential to carry out them grudges. But at this time sure your statement does pass. Another thing i recall Dajabo you have said i have a hard time with ( may or may not have been this thread ) you say you can not control your older members. Well i would say you are the Leader of your AA and you should have control over ALL your members and maybe sometimes you should use that to help yourself in the future. Being a leader is not just doing the FA work outside of your Alliance to make is something you vision but it is also having that solid base internally with EVERYONE on the same page. If you can not control or moderate internally you will not be successful outside.  And i think most great or good leaders in this game have accomplished this and brought the best out of thier Alliances.

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I don't think the majority of the game holds onto grudges from 6/7 years ago. I mean look at TOP-Polar, MK-TOP, TLR-NPO, NG-NPO, Grata/SF

Over the years these grudges come and go. There are many times where people discuss signing up former enemies, hell I've had a recent discussion internally about that exact thing. But the big question is that people won't sign new treaties if they know that their allies will not like it. Or they do if they don't care about that treaty anymore due to realpolitik reasons. (Hi Valhalla.)

I will put forward that there are various kindered spirits who don't hold onto grudges. I'll start going through them, at least from NG's PoV

Non Grata grudges since we formed

Grudge with NPO from a number of NG members who were put on PZI/EZI lists and forced to re-roll to evade the lists in 2007/2008 - WELP we're now allied.

Grudge with FARK from NEW-DF - non existant anymore from my experience, we enjoy cordial relations with their members in our embassies on both our boards.

Grudge with SF from PB-NpO - We enjoy cordial relations and now enjoy a Non Aggression agreement with their members and are extended allies to them via our friends in NSO and NATO.

Grudge with AFM from Dave - There are no bad feelings from our side, I can't speak for aftermath, but we wish them no harm. We have a NAP with CRAP & TTK from OBHF & the only reason we engaged SNX this war was due to a request to take strain of NPO so that we didn't have to throw more alliances onto CCC, CRAP or TTK turning it into a proper dogpile. Post war I actually look forward to continuing our good discussions with SNX on our forums and my senate comrades from TTK and CRAP.

Grudge with Polar - Nothing from our side anymore at a leadership level. We hoped to actually fight a war where we weren't engaging Polaris, however they decided to engage against us instead of against one of the many alliances currently fighting their allies in aftermath. I don't hold anything against them as at the end of the day, we did hit their ally. I wish them all the best in their war, I'm sorry that the counter lined up may well be as thorough against them as the counter against us was in EQ and Disorder however we are lucky, for once, that we had that luxury.



I could go through more if you want. But a lot of our grudges have only recently formed for various reasons.


Good post Stewie. I can tell you from AFM/SNX standpoint we hold no ill will against NG.
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Can we all just agree that it's my fault--I established my nation just this year, and really, it's my fault for not doing something about this and establishing my nation years before...

 

Everything is Randon's fault, as a polar member you need to learn that asap.

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Everything is Randon's fault, as a polar member you need to learn that asap.

I though I'd give Random a break.  This time of year always brings self-sacrificial images and visions of sugar plums dancing in my head.

Edited by Orville Reginbacher
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It's 2014. There are like three people that care enough to hate anymore.

 

I hate therefore I am.  I don't hate because I care, I hate because I can.  The shortlist of people I hate, people who are still within this game, is very very short these days and Pez drifting off just dropped the list to one less.  People seem to confuse any sign of passionate discussion to be someone caring too much or shedding cyber-tears over stats or some other rubbish.  I prefer to view it as actually engaging, contributing and forging a narrative that allows Bob to be more than a pig pen with feces written signatures on the walls .  I also recognize that alliances by and large attract certain types of people and that the certain type of person that I am will never be compatible here or elsewhere with other certain types of people.  That isn't hate, it is realism.  People want to be loved by everyone, I prefer to actually like people I want to without regard for what they can do for me.

 

I do not hate NG for example, I post regularly on their forums and engage them in the same manner they engage me.  I like their leadership and many of their members, but they are not compatible with how I view Polaris and its values and goals.  We are natural opposites to some degree, but we have far more in common than some alliances we are actually allied directly to.  I don't like the fact that we declared directly on them this war, I really did want the appearance of an issue between our alliances to be put to bed.  Alas we were asked to contribute where we are and so we are.  To some extent appearances can be very deceiving at times.

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