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Unfair Raiding Practic


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I said compare the loss. Go ahead and break it down in %

 

 

You assert that the trends I identified are wrong?  I'd tell you to refute them, but we both know you can't.

As above.

 

 

But if you're going to be declaring wars early on people who raid unaligned or micro nations, you'll find yourself overwhelmingly outnumbered and in a state of perma-war and you won't be building much infra; of this I can assure you.

Where did we say that? We are talking about full fledged AAs in this thread.

 

 

SKARO's decline in membership came from a failure to implement even the most basic form of structure (IRC, any real efforts with offsite forums).

While being pummeled into the ground round after round. Just take a look at that ANS they boast! That must have been one of their first rounds. Ive only been back 5 or 6.

 

 

 It is not another alliance's JOBarrow-10x10.png to teach them how to play the game and provide for their protection from raids;

Yeah, its not our job, it is our duty. We will be announcing our intentions early anyways, and it is your fault if you do not read it. We arent going to sucker punch you for hitting some nation that "we are protecting"

Every alliance on that list has seen changes.  You're cherry-picking one example to try and make a point at the exclusion of everyone else.  NDO was, two rounds ago, in the 30's population wise.  Now we're down to just over 1/3 of our former numbers.  We have not been raided - our decline came from poor leadership.  You're also forgetting that many of Skaro's members were raiding other alliances that were capable of fighting back at will due to the lack of any kind of consistently-enforced raid policy.  The response to that was that Skaro, itself, was counter-raided.  I'm not going to post all the links to those threads simply for time's sake but that was a well-documented thing on these forums; I myself had to send messages to HDSupreme about this issue.  However as this behavior was not rectified, people eventually just started raiding them willy-nilly.

 

 

Raiding is bad? !@#$%*, please... Don't blame the bullies -- they're just doing what they've been doing since the beginning. Blame weaklings who sit there, drooling, unwilling to join a strong alliance and seek safety (or fight) for themselves. Just get up, crack that $%&@in' bully, and realize that it's no one's responsibility to look out for you in this world. Come on, now!

 

"Bullies"?  If you want people to look out for you in this world, you join or create an AA - then you've got people looking out for you and in return you are expected to look out for them.  Not only that, but you get access to things like battle and building guides, active/experienced members to show you how to do things.  We have a link at the top of our alliance page to take you to the forum where signing up occurs - as do most alliances.  In the "Alliance and Team" forum there are literal advertisements from various AA's saying (in so many words) "join us!"  There's no blame being bandied about anywhere.  There are, however, strategies that work and strategies that do not.  The line between the two can be fuzzy, but opting to "go it alone" isn't gonna get you very far in a game about war and virtual world politics in the radioactive hell that is planet steve.

 

Despite the hubris from StevieG, you will find that quite a few AA's will welcome "noobs" into the fold and show them how to play.  NDO is one of these; and like most we ask for 1. activity (actually play the whole round), 2. communication (forums/IRC), 3. using resources we set up for you (guides, TC assignments, coordination).  Even if you wipe the war aspect, this game would simply suck if you played it alone.  And if you're in a small AA and you don't want us to raid you, that can be negotiated - once again this isn't an NDO- only thing.  And even across alliance lines, people know each other.  The best wars are fought between opponents who actually like each other; the hate aspect's gone and then it's just fun.

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Every alliance on that list has seen changes.  You're cherry-picking one example to try and make a point at the exclusion of everyone else.  NDO was, two rounds ago, in the 30's population wise.  Now we're down to just over 1/3 of our former numbers.  We have not been raided - our decline came from poor leadership.  You're also forgetting that many of Skaro's members were raiding other alliances that were capable of fighting back at will due to the lack of any kind of consistently-enforced raid policy.  The response to that was that Skaro, itself, was counter-raided.  I'm not going to post all the links to those threads simply for time's sake but that was a well-documented thing on these forums; I myself had to send messages to HDSupreme about this issue.  However as this behavior was not rectified, people eventually just started raiding them willy-nilly.

 

Despite the hubris from StevieG, you will find that quite a few AA's will welcome "noobs" into the fold and show them how to play.

 

I am picking the most obvious example. What I actualy said was compare the fluctuations over the 5 rounds. Taking the "then" and "now" stats could be misleading, but if you look at it from round to round you will see that the trend is towards these AAs losing members rapidly.

 

NDO lost their leader(you), then over the next round or 2 lost their way and best members. Obviously other aspects like this have impact.

 

I highly doubt they were "raiding" although I cannot say for sure going farther back than last round. I watch the war screens, and this round and last I will say you are wrong. Keep in mind that a few nations attacking out from the AA could easily be noobs "rouging"

 

Yes, they have had their fair share of problems, and may not always be in the right.

 

 

Sorry, the way The Avengers are set up we dont really accept noobs or members who dont use Irc. You will find that there are a lot of AAs who regularly decline applications as well. We need the noob AAs as feeders into the game IMO.

 

This round we took action against RE for raiding then DoWing them after only raiders were countered. Wasnt that your advice to them? Fight back? Only to be DoWd on?

 

Unfortunately, however, the damage was done. Our actions ended up not even being much help to Skaro and NLON. Hopefully all you scavengers can stay off their backs and at least let their remaining members attempt to build. This is why next round we will proactively announce our intentions, so you are all well aware that we will be coming, and can make a more informed choice as to your raid targets.

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I am picking the most obvious example. What I actualy said was compare the fluctuations over the 5 rounds. Taking the "then" and "now" stats could be misleading, but if you look at it from round to round you will see that the trend is towards these AAs losing members rapidly.

 

NDO lost their leader(you), then over the next round or 2 lost their way and best members. Obviously other aspects like this have impact.

 

I highly doubt they were "raiding" although I cannot say for sure going farther back than last round. I watch the war screens, and this round and last I will say you are wrong. Keep in mind that a few nations attacking out from the AA could easily be noobs "rouging"

 

Yes, they have had their fair share of problems, and may not always be in the right.

 

 

Sorry, the way The Avengers are set up we dont really accept noobs or members who dont use Irc. You will find that there are a lot of AAs who regularly decline applications as well. We need the noob AAs as feeders into the game IMO.

 

This round we took action against RE for raiding then DoWing them after only raiders were countered. Wasnt that your advice to them? Fight back? Only to be DoWd on?

 

Unfortunately, however, the damage was done. Our actions ended up not even being much help to Skaro and NLON. Hopefully all you scavengers can stay off their backs and at least let their remaining members attempt to build. This is why next round we will proactively announce our intentions, so you are all well aware that we will be coming, and can make a more informed choice as to your raid targets.

 

Skaro lost its members rapidly; that is true.  It also gained its members rapidly - the rate of growth isn't something TE's seen in a very long time.  The old adage of "easy come, easy go" is applying here; Skaro's population waxed just as abruptly as it waned.  Did tech raiding cause that, too?

 

Noobs off roguing, especially when there are repeat offenses against many alliances, will get your AA declared upon.  You know it, I know it, I don't know why you're trying to make excuses for them.  Skaro was not taken seriously as an alliance because they were missing some of the critical portions of an alliance.  Defined leadership, basic ground rules for things like raiding, guides/mentorship, communications, etc.  Their "poor noob victims" were walking like ducks, quacking like ducks, smelling like ducks... wasn't much of a stretch to say they were ducks, to use a metaphor.

 

NDO gives noobs a chance; welcomes them.

 

Also, it seems to me that you are - in a roundabout way - attempting to form a protectorate for Skaro and NLoN (since that seems to be where this is going; raid revenge/assistance).  If that is your goal than state so concisely and clearly; take that "bullying" accusation shit somewhere else.

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Skaro lost its members rapidly; that is true.  It also gained its members rapidly - the rate of growth isn't something TE's seen in a very long time.  The old adage of "easy come, easy go" is applying here; Skaro's population waxed just as abruptly as it waned.  Did tech raiding cause that, too?

 

Noobs off roguing, especially when there are repeat offenses against many alliances, will get your AA declared upon.  You know it, I know it, I don't know why you're trying to make excuses for them.  Skaro was not taken seriously as an alliance because they were missing some of the critical portions of an alliance.  Defined leadership, basic ground rules for things like raiding, guides/mentorship, communications, etc.  Their "poor noob victims" were walking like ducks, quacking like ducks, smelling like ducks... wasn't much of a stretch to say they were ducks, to use a metaphor.

 

NDO gives noobs a chance; welcomes them.

 

Also, it seems to me that you are - in a roundabout way - attempting to form a protectorate for Skaro and NLoN (since that seems to be where this is going; raid revenge/assistance).  If that is your goal than state so concisely and clearly; take that "bullying" accusation !@#$ somewhere else.

 

It seems you are keen to disagree with me on most every point. So lets just move past this.

 

Yes, we will be announcing a protectorate of some sort. We dont really care if you are the type who ignores TE "treaties" or not. Something needs to change.

 

Now, I will just counter 1 of your points. In the hypothetical instance of us protecting Skaro, and one of your noobs then goes and raids them. By your logic, your entire AA can be countered and crushed into the dirt. Sound fair? Didnt think so. Dont use it that way on them.

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It seems you are keen to disagree with me on most every point. So lets just move past this.

 

Yes, we will be announcing a protectorate of some sort. We dont really care if you are the type who ignores TE "treaties" or not. Something needs to change.

 

Now, I will just counter 1 of your points. In the hypothetical instance of us protecting Skaro, and one of your noobs then goes and raids them. By your logic, your entire AA can be countered and crushed into the dirt. Sound fair? Didnt think so. Dont use it that way on them.

 

I will agree when what you say makes sense.

 

No problem with a protectorate.  Considering I'd proposed smaller alliances requesting raid immunity; that's a logical extension of that.  Next time cut the foreplay and get to the real point.  Attempting to lay a justification foundwork based on the tired old "unfair" argument isn't gonna do anything but piss people off and create a lot of resistance to your idea.  We play a game where wars are declared "just because"; if you're going to come up with a reason... "We like Skaro and NLON, they're typically micro-sized now and we don't want them getting raided into oblivion, and we're going to be protecting them.  <Avengers signatures> <Skaro signatures> <NLON signatures>.  People will respect that, and I would probably have argued in your favor against those who didn't.  That's a fresh twist we don't see often.  Do that.  Drop all the "unfairness" bullshit.

 

We have had raids hit us from others' noobs; general practice is to contact the leadership of their alliance and have them deal with it.  If the raiding/rogueing continues, or if the alliance's leadership are the raiders/rogues, then it is fair game for war.  We wouldn't roll a whole alliance predicated on the action of one noob who likely didn't have government permission for their actions.  Quit attempting to use hyperbole, you missed the mark by a wide margin.

Edited by Nick GhostWolf
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