Hoosier Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Yo Nations of TEIt is time to realise we need change in our raiding practic. As a long time member of TE we all see the numbers dropping.Raiding is a tech and xp builder not war. To raid a nation it is ussual to mention raid sending peace. It is not a war and it is not an excuse to crush small alliance even loner nations. This kind of practic is a brick wall for new nations to balance and learn TE while getting the tar kicked out of them, forcing them into ghosts of the game.If you lead an alliance it is your responsibility to enforce fair raiding practic. Once in a while nations or rogues need to be wiped away and it should be posted when declaring.Raiding should always be held w/honor and limits (could be you). If you raid a lot then you need war that simple and TE is warring less and less. So get your actions under control so we can enjoy a growing game. It isnt necessary for admin to have to make a raid key to allow two days of strikes or three. It takes a team of gamers to stand up for the purpose of growing this great game.So lets all war more w/less raiding, not so intereted? Well, it is because you have much to loose (selfish) in war. Be a stand up nation limit raiding to two or three day strikes, then let them lay. Until this becomes a standand I will org a big strike on any alliance w/unfair raiding practic w/over whelming odds to crush you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Mothers Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 I'm new but I think there's an enormous difference between SE and TE: in SE raiding is annoying and even "criminal" because every nation is here to stay and to develop. In TE, instead, every nation is condemned to extinction in a short time, so just only wars and raids makes sense. Spider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magicboyd25 Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 I kinda agree with this. War is more fun than raids and raids can end up being really stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted November 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 We can stand together to get this changed. Will be some learning curves and lessons taught I am sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Gear Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 I strongly agree with this. This is my 4th TE round and honestly I just hate raiding in TE. In my very first round I was with a very small and somewhat weak 4 man alliance called Asgard and we constantly got raided over and over. Our leader got so fed up with it he quit our alliance and TE. In my second round which was my first with D1 I was weaker becuase I was still a noob and didn't know how to play. I decided to raid the ruler bcortell (you can probably see where this is headed) because he was in a one man alliance Pork Shrimp (which I now know used to be very strong). He was almost half my strength and had been inactive for 10 days so I figured why not raid the guy. Well two days later I get nuked out of nowhere by him and got completely destroyed until the war was over. Ever since I have never raided in TE and I think it sucks to see smaller newbie alliance get crushed (ex. The Great Front League, The Swarm). I think it's neat when new alliances come up (ex. For Justice). Your alliance can never be the best forever ever so why take out new and upcoming alliance with new and upcoming people. If those new people figure out the trick they can shoot up like I did and become the next great players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADude Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) Yo Nations of TE It is time to realise we need change in our raiding practic. As a long time member of TE we all see the numbers dropping. Raiding is a tech and xp builder not war. To raid a nation it is ussual to mention raid sending peace. It is not a war and it is not an excuse to crush small alliance even loner nations. This kind of practic is a brick wall for new nations to balance and learn TE while getting the tar kicked out of them, forcing them into ghosts of the game. If you lead an alliance it is your responsibility to enforce fair raiding practic. Once in a while nations or rogues need to be wiped away and it should be posted when declaring. Raiding should always be held w/honor and limits (could be you). If you raid a lot then you need war that simple and TE is warring less and less. So get your actions under control so we can enjoy a growing game. It isnt necessary for admin to have to make a raid key to allow two days of strikes or three. It takes a team of gamers to stand up for the purpose of growing this great game. So lets all war more w/less raiding, not so intereted? Well, it is because you have much to loose (selfish) in war. Be a stand up nation limit raiding to two or three day strikes, then let them lay. Until this becomes a standand I will org a big strike on any alliance w/unfair raiding practic w/over whelming odds to crush you! Â RE will continue to raid with aircraft. Â Also its *Practice* you dolt. Edited November 17, 2014 by Highroad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfW Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) I see on day 5 every nation not in an alliance completely crushed. Then by day 10 or sooner it moves to small alliances. As sec defense for FIST I gave an order not to raid any alliance over rank 16. Spent the next week trying to enforce it when all the other alliances were allowing it. Lost my temper on a small alliance over a rouge. As far as I can tell raiding usually costs more than it brings in. Unless all alliances enforce no raiding and leave raiders allianceless this will not end. I'll take the argument to to FIST council halls if the rest of TE major alliances will follow suite. But the rule would have to be none in any alliance is allowed to raid. Any deviation from that and the current system comes back Edited November 17, 2014 by WolfW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul711 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Yo Nations of TE It is time to realise we need change in our raiding practic. As a long time member of TE we all see the numbers dropping. Raiding is a tech and xp builder not war. To raid a nation it is ussual to mention raid sending peace. It is not a war and it is not an excuse to crush small alliance even loner nations. This kind of practic is a brick wall for new nations to balance and learn TE while getting the tar kicked out of them, forcing them into ghosts of the game. If you lead an alliance it is your responsibility to enforce fair raiding practic. Once in a while nations or rogues need to be wiped away and it should be posted when declaring. Raiding should always be held w/honor and limits (could be you). If you raid a lot then you need war that simple and TE is warring less and less. So get your actions under control so we can enjoy a growing game. It isnt necessary for admin to have to make a raid key to allow two days of strikes or three. It takes a team of gamers to stand up for the purpose of growing this great game. So lets all war more w/less raiding, not so intereted? Well, it is because you have much to loose (selfish) in war. Be a stand up nation limit raiding to two or three day strikes, then let them lay. Until this becomes a standand I will org a big strike on any alliance w/unfair raiding practic w/over whelming odds to crush you! This is a stupid idea and I will have no part of it. Any alliance I lead will raid as long as XP is involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessKitty Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Â RE will continue to raid with aircraft. Â Also its *Practice* you dolt. Next time you make fun of cowboy, I will smash your face in the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieG Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I see on day 5 every nation not in an alliance completely crushed. Then by day 10 or sooner it moves to small alliances. As sec defense for FIST I gave an order not to raid any alliance over rank 16. Spent the next week trying to enforce it when all the other alliances were allowing it. Lost my temper on a small alliance over a rouge. As far as I can tell raiding usually costs more than it brings in. Unless all alliances enforce no raiding and leave raiders allianceless this will not end. I'll take the argument to to FIST council halls if the rest of TE major alliances will follow suite. But the rule would have to be none in any alliance is allowed to raid. Any deviation from that and the current system comes back Raiding while sometimes can cause the raidee to fight back and as you say then not be "worth it" But even so, valuable XP is earned. We have been trying to limit raiding on AAs like NLON and Skaro etc. But we do take responsibility for the destruction of the Swarm, they were nations, who fought back and werent "noobs" imo, but they have been wrecked. Â This is a stupid idea and I will have no part of it. Any alliance I lead will raid as long as XP is involved. Oh well, good to see you are gonna lead. But be careful on your target selections ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted November 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 YoFor all the nations who don't get it! My point is not to destroy small nations or alliances w/over raiding practic. Raiding is necessary to the game just be consience not to destroy the nation. Two or three strikss s/b adequate.Well, let's just be more considerate to others trying to get a foot in the game!Those of you who do practic bad raiding practic, I am coming for you n future editions. Already I have had a lot of response from other alliances who will join in. So raiding alliances who are not considerate, you can bet your cherrios two or three alliances will make a point you cant see!We want a better game w/more players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADude Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Next time you make fun of cowboy, I will smash your face in the floor. Â Hoosier is the worst TE player I've ever known and he somehow continues to only outdo himself on a daily basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessKitty Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Â Hoosier is the worst TE player I've ever known and he somehow continues to only outdo himself on a daily basis. You do not know him like I do! He outdos himself of being awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kananu Reeves Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) You do not know him like I do! He outdos himself of being awesome. Â I agree with you PK; Hoosier is awsome, very awsome indeed! v Edited November 18, 2014 by Kananu Reeves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Gear Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited)  Hoosier is the worst TE player I've ever known and he somehow continues to only outdo himself on a daily basis.  'Cause the players gonna play, play, play, play, play And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake I shake it off, I shake it off                   - Taylor Swift  Teehee  You're awesome Hoosier. #DEFCON1WILLDESTROYROUND34TRUSTME Edited November 18, 2014 by Top Gear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul711 Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 For all the nations who don't get it! My point is not to destroy small nations or alliances w/over raiding practic. Raiding is necessary to the game just be consience not to destroy Those of you who do practic bad raiding practic, I am coming for you n future editions. Already I have had a lot of response from other alliances who will join in. So raiding alliances who are not considerate, you can bet your cherrios two or three alliances will make a point you cant see! We want a better game w/more players. Instead of trying to protect others you should worry about your own AA. Me and Adude rarely ever agree but you being is that one rare time that we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King William Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) I recently tried to help 2 of my raid targets by offering friendly advice.And earlier I remember I raided with the reason "Don't buy ISS so soon" to someone who had it as their first wonder (?) along with Stock market.Tough love. But the love is real. Edited November 18, 2014 by King William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessKitty Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 king william acts like he knows how to build a nation lol. He so funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Glory Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) YoFor all the nations who don't get it! My point is not to destroy small nations or alliances w/over raiding practic. Raiding is necessary to the game just be consience not to destroy the nation. Two or three strikss s/b adequate.Well, let's just be more considerate to others trying to get a foot in the game!Those of you who do practic bad raiding practic, I am coming for you n future editions. Already I have had a lot of response from other alliances who will join in. So raiding alliances who are not considerate, you can bet your cherrios two or three alliances will make a point you cant see!We want a better game w/more players. Hoosier aka cowboy has a point here, I see where he is coming from. He's just trying to keep the numbers from dwindling any further. I know back in the day TPF/TPC raided, and trust me we did our share of it. However we always had a raiding rule. Unaligned was ok. We never raided an alliance over x amount of people I think like 10 or so people, or in the top 2 or 3 pages. When we did raid, we asked That our members only hit with 2 ground attacks and then offer peace. There for the nation was not rocked and at most put into anarchy. Of course there was always the few who decided to attack back, which did end up costing more than it gained in raiding but of course that nation ended up being destroyed through the war. Now with the addition of XP I think it is crucial that nations raid, and raid with ground, air, and navy. I do feel that one round or 2 at the most is sufficient to collect XP then peace out. This leaving that nation to rebuild, and less likely to just give up. The other side is that it does help noobs both in an alliance and with out learn the abc's of waring. I don't think Hoosier expects no raiding, just raiding in moderation and I for one wouldn't want to be apart of an alliance that forbid it.  Instead of trying to protect others you should worry about your own AA. Me and Adude rarely ever agree but you being is that one rare time that we do.  Lol, Adude is still around? Ha I'm going to have to stop over and say hi king william acts like he knows how to build a nation lol. He so funny I lol'd BG Edited November 18, 2014 by Burning Glory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kananu Reeves Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014  I agree with you PK; Hoosier is awsome, very awsome indeed!  v    'Cause the players gonna play, play, play, play, play And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake I shake it off, I shake it off                   - Taylor Swift  Teehee  You're awesome Hoosier. #DEFCON1WILLDESTROYROUND34TRUSTME   ^^Taylor Swift, not so awesome :gag: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessKitty Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Taylor is my girl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick GhostWolf Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) Hmm...  1. If you don't like being raided, fight back. Best way to make a raid unprofitable is to destroy the tech they take and some infra to boot.  2. Don't turtle. The worst thing you can do is turtle. Most people will peace you out after 1 or two attacks but if you turtle and ignore peace requests, you end up stuck on that person's war screens and in order to ensure they still get something out of it, you're gonna be subjected to more attacks. If you turtle, ignore peaceouts and complain I have NO sympathy for you, DO SOMETHING about it or get ready to have your pixels burnt to zero.  3. Up and coming alliances, eh? Protip: alliances here talk and interact with one another. Most will, if you ask them and don't be a !@#$% about it, grant you sanctuary from raids by their members. That makes your alliance a little bit better a prospect, when you can send recruitment messages to other un-aligned nations saying "hey, <so and so> established alliances have pledged not to raid us." Word of warning: don't make up non-existent "do not raid" agreements; it never ends well.  Getting on here saying you're going to "come at" people who raid? Go ahead, do it. See what happens.  Edit -  Oh, and all that "we can work together to change" horse !@#$, shut up Mr. Obama. Stop whining about the strategies that effective, established, and "winning" players use, and instead learn how to use them yourself and work within the social structure of this game. There is no class warfare here, only nuclear warfare. If you think there's a glass ceiling learn how to play the game and break it yourself. It isn't my job and I have NO interest in helping people who aren't 1. in NDO or 2. Me to win wars and get huge, that is counterproductive to a competition. This is a competitive environment; some strategies are solid and work, others are crappy and get your nation burned to the ground. Much like the real world, socialism does not work or fly here. If you want to think, act, and play like a loser, you will be a loser until you ragequit and the only thing about you we'll miss is stealing your tech. I was a noob with no clue how to play this game once too, as was everyone else. Edited November 21, 2014 by Nick GhostWolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick GhostWolf Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 I recently tried to help 2 of my raid targets by offering friendly advice. And earlier I remember I raided with the reason "Don't buy ISS so soon" to someone who had it as their first wonder (?) along with Stock market. Tough love. But the love is real. Â Combined with a 4BR to 3BR transitional TC, buying ISS first puts you at 1.5 infra on day 2, 3.4k infra by day 14 if you do it right, take it from me :3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieG Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Hmm...  1. If you don't like being raided, fight back. Best way to make a raid unprofitable is to destroy the tech they take and some infra to boot.  2. Don't turtle. The worst thing you can do is turtle. Most people will peace you out after 1 or two attacks but if you turtle and ignore peace requests, you end up stuck on that person's war screens and in order to ensure they still get something out of it, you're gonna be subjected to more attacks. If you turtle, ignore peaceouts and complain I have NO sympathy for you, DO SOMETHING about it or get ready to have your pixels burnt to zero.  3. Up and coming alliances, eh? Protip: alliances here talk and interact with one another. Most will, if you ask them and don't be a !@#$% about it, grant you sanctuary from raids by their members. That makes your alliance a little bit better a prospect, when you can send recruitment messages to other un-aligned nations saying "hey, <so and so> established alliances have pledged not to raid us." Word of warning: don't make up non-existent "do not raid" agreements; it never ends well.  Getting on here saying you're going to "come at" people who raid? Go ahead, do it. See what happens.  Edit -  Oh, and all that "we can work together to change" horse !@#$, shut up Mr. Obama. Stop whining about the strategies that effective, established, and "winning" players use, and instead learn how to use them yourself and work within the social structure of this game. There is no class warfare here, only nuclear warfare. If you think there's a glass ceiling learn how to play the game and break it yourself. It isn't my job and I have NO interest in helping people who aren't 1. in NDO or 2. Me to win wars and get huge, that is counterproductive to a competition. This is a competitive environment; some strategies are solid and work, others are crappy and get your nation burned to the ground. Much like the real world, socialism does not work or fly here. If you want to think, act, and play like a loser, you will be a loser until you ragequit and the only thing about you we'll miss is stealing your tech. I was a noob with no clue how to play this game once too, as was everyone else.  Raiding has changed significantly with XP now being the main goal, not tech/land. Fighting back will not deter raiders who are strong enough or have strong enough friends. I actually like when they fight back. Swearing to make the war unprofitable, and fighting back day after day will only give the raider more days to accumulate XP. The essence of raiding has shifted, and some seem to still be left behind.  Now if you are unaligned or in a 5 man AA or something, bad luck. What I would like to see stop is the raiding of inexperienced, relatively new AAs who seem to drop off faster than they come. Your advice to them is to fight back? But as we can see over the rounds, these AAs that get picked apart by raiding/easy war lose the vast majority of their member base over a couple rounds.  Now, finally to your bolded point. Nobody is whining. Cowboy may lack in his grammar/english but The Avengers fully support the essence of the OP. We will come at you. But we will give you fair warning.   Combined with a 4BR to 3BR transitional TC, buying ISS first puts you at 1.5 infra on day 2, 3.4k infra by day 14 if you do it right, take it from me :3  Yeah ok, you keep getting ISS as first wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick GhostWolf Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited)  Raiding has changed significantly with XP now being the main goal, not tech/land. Fighting back will not deter raiders who are strong enough or have strong enough friends. I actually like when they fight back. Swearing to make the war unprofitable, and fighting back day after day will only give the raider more days to accumulate XP. The essence of raiding has shifted, and some seem to still be left behind.  Now if you are unaligned or in a 5 man AA or something, bad luck. What I would like to see stop is the raiding of inexperienced, relatively new AAs who seem to drop off faster than they come. Your advice to them is to fight back? But as we can see over the rounds, these AAs that get picked apart by raiding/easy war lose the vast majority of their member base over a couple rounds.  Now, finally to your bolded point. Nobody is whining. Cowboy may lack in his grammar/english but The Avengers fully support the essence of the OP. We will come at you. But we will give you fair warning.   Yeah ok, you keep getting ISS as first wonder.  Yes, the rationale for raiding has changed, as have some of the tactics. Because using an air force in a raid requires you to spend early WC, that's a crucial point of stonewalling an aggressor. Escalate the air war; at a certain point the lost profit potential of money spent buying more fighters to overwhelm air defenses an ideal air XP raid will outweigh the econ benefits a general will provide. This isn't that far above basic mathematics. With the tech requirements for Battleships what they are (low), it's also quite easy to counter a raider and make it very unprofitable, very quickly, with a modest Navy. Between damages done to their infra and their inflated soldiers, a raider that doesn't also have a Navy is going to face blockades. This will make the raid unprofitable almost instantly.  Remaining unaligned or in a 5 man alliance is not "bad luck". It is a choice. It is also something that one can work within - move to an alliance that is larger. Speak with the leadership of other micros, and form agreements or merge into a larger alliance. It's been done plenty of times before; knowledge of guides and how to build pixels and do a nuclear backdeploy are not required to simply send a message to someone saying "yo, we're both tiny and gonna get creamed, let's work together." And - as I had mentioned before - small alliances can also contact the larger ones and ask to be spared from raiding. This happens quite a bit.  You have attempted to link "being raided to death" as the cause of why small alliances do not survive. I would posit that many of them actually don't survive because the person forming the alliance was both new and not particularly interested in the game to begin with, or lacked the ability to effectively draw people into their alliance. There are alliances that get large and STILL are successfully raided and fall apart (Majestic Crowns League comes to mind). Didn't Hellas have 6 members last round? An alliance that has an identity and dedicated members - which must be forged BY the alliance - can survive a rough round or two, even if they're in the micro category. Don't attempt to patronize them.  Alongside your comment about ISS as first wonder (you clearly missed the part about TC's) it is quite clear that you do not plan more than 1 or 2 days ahead at a time and have literally zero skill at calculating the long-term effects of in-game transactions. Thus, your threat to "come at me" doesn't particularly scare me. Keep in mind that I maintained that top 10 spot through 3 days of war, and I haven't been donating this round. You can buy pixels. You cannot buy a brain.  Edit:  "I made bad decisions about my nation and thus I got raided and my pixels were burnt down!" is whining. Turning that into a cause to champion is pathetic, and simply enables more whining. It also drives the more dedicated and quality players from the game - which is what does the real damage to TE.  Equating raiding as the primary cause of the drop in TE population is also, moronic. This game's been declining in membership for a very long time. The number of large alliances is shrinking, the numbers in large alliances are shrinking, this is also happening in SE albeit at a slower pace. The relationship between raiding and raiding practices and the rate of population decline is tenuous at best. Look at the bigger picture here, rather than try to rabble-rouse. Partially, because you're not going to succeed in making this "change" that you speak of. This is a competitive game. You may as well be stating "buying an MP gives you an unfair advantage, let's discourage people from buying MP's". Edited November 21, 2014 by Nick GhostWolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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