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European War OOC Thread


Californian

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I'll just wait till Yeru and/or Rudy respond (the people who were actually concerned), and if they are equally uncooperative, I will have to take it to the GM hall, I guess.

You'll get an answer from me when Ty finishes judging the situation as GM. :P Considering the war is locked until Monday, I feel no need to breath down his neck. If you'd like to pester him for a faster judgment, I won't stop you.

 

As for Rudy's fleet, don't be petty. He has the ability to sustain a navy, is a coastal nation, and I believe he's had his navy in his factbook since before he engaged you.

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So can I spawn a navy in the Ukraine?

I'm aware you're being a snide little twit and taking a shot at Rudy with this, but in seriousness, no. You're already in the war, and we have no reason to believe you should have had a navy there.

 

I mean, if we want to go down the slippery slope with things, Eva hasn't RPed her soldiers loading their weapons, ergo her attack fails because none of her guns are loaded. And she forgot to RP her soldiers breathing. Or the munitions being produced and shipped.

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I'm aware you're being a snide little twit and taking a shot at Rudy with this, but in seriousness, no. You're already in the war, and we have no reason to believe you should have had a navy there.

 

 

And why would I want to take a shot at Rudy? I was asking an entirely serious question.

Edited by Mr Director
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If you want to go by that standard, Rudy only made his factbook military entry after Eva attacked so unless he posted it somewhere in Fantasy RP.

 

Edit: That is not to say I support going by that standard. All parties should be able to spawn the full navies the rules allow them to have.

Edited by Centurius
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Really? I guess you'll be posting in the GM hall then because I don't remember a rule where it was required to disclose the positions of forces the enemy cannot see to the enemy. Maybe to a GM, but not to other players who might act upon information they don't technically have access to outside of as narrative information. Your name calling bodes well for your position in the discussion and calls into question your own intellect. I look forward to seeing you compose your quest for disclosure.

 

Your nation is not a god. It is not omniscient. It cannot see things it does not have assets in place to identify. So if you cannot post the logic behind why you see them, then you don't deserve to know jack, jack.. err.. Eva err. Idiot.

 

You know.. I think that since you have taken to calling people idiots who disagree with you, I'm going to make that your name for whenever I'm in a discussion with you that you disagree with me. I'll just be like "Yo idiot." and you'll know exactly who I'm talking to because of this little piece of beauty you have bestowed upon us.

 

The reason to require specification of units is because metagaming goes both way where the act by one side is easier to detect and handle than that by the other.

 

If you do not provide(in narrative or via ooc which protects it against metagaming) the information on the units you are putting in the field if the enemy does something you didn't expect or don't like you can simply turn the pieces around. There is no way to prove you made such a decision because of OOC reasons unless you actually admit it somewhere on record. Added to that it is just really creating an unneeded nuisance when people claim to want collaborative rp.

 

Now the thing you worry about, if all the information on units is provided someone could use that knowledge to their advantage yet. A GM can however easily determine if he did the proper rp to get the information ICly and if that is not the case wipe a post. It's transparent and easily verified.

 

So what is worse, the potential for metagaming that is difficult to prove or the potential for metagaming where it's easy to prove and take care of?

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I've proposed an alternative. Just let the GM's know in advance where forces are.. let the parties involved go about their intel gathering.. and then it should be revealed as provided to the gms by the player who owns the forces. If they fail to provide the appropriate information then they're the ones who've dropped the ball and the gm's then yell at.

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It adds a chain of unneeded posts.

 

In the normal scenario:

 

Poster A does the surveillance and can attack based on that, if the surveillance is deemed insufficient a GM wipes it.

 

Poster B does the same thing in response.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

With what you're suggesting

 

Poster A does the surveillance.

 

GM/Poster B gives the info

 

Poster A does the attack

 

Poster B does the surveillance

 

GM/Poster A gives the info

 

Poster B does the attack

 

You really don't get how this is an unneeded hassle for the people actually doing the fighting and the GMs as now they(or like in this war, he) are forced to review every post and give the info for that whereas under the regular system the GMs only have to look at those that are complained about?

Edited by Centurius
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It adds a chain of unneeded posts.

 

In the normal scenario:

 

Poster A does the surveillance and can attack based on that, if the surveillance is deemed insufficient a GM wipes it.

 

Poster B does the same thing in response.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

With what you're suggesting

 

Poster A does the surveillance.

 

GM/Poster B gives the info

 

Poster A does the attack

 

Poster B does the surveillance

 

GM/Poster A gives the info

 

Poster B does the attack

 

You really don't get how this is an unneeded hassle for the people actually doing the fighting and the GMs as now they(or like in this war, he) are forced to review every post and give the info for that whereas under the regular system the GMs only have to look at those that are complained about?

 

It doesn't necessarily need to be that complicated as surveillance methods and attack methods can be included in the same posts. The GM simply is privately informed of the asset locations so if anyone pulls any crap, they know. And they can also determine by the surveillance attempted how well the methods in question might work.

 

That way if poster a or b lies about something the other should have uncovered, objections can be made and gms are not left in the dark as to who should have been right.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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Regarding navies:

 

Each nation is entitled to a navy per the rules, and it's been established you don't need to roleplay out its construction prior to its introduction. However, it would be unfair to magically sprout a navy wherever you want especially during a war. Therefore, players are allowed to RP the initial existence of their navy along their coastlines or at locations where there has been established roleplay for the leasing/operation of a port. Beyond that, deployments are required to move the ships and normal damage/sinking rules still apply.

 

Regarding navy/troop composition:

 

The argument that compositions have always been disclosed in CNRP is a bad one because wars in CNRP are generally incredibly messy, OOC affairs with lots of metagaming involved. At the same time, war rules in CNRP2 have not been articulated very clearly and it would be unfair to impose an entirely new structure without prior discussion. 

 

Large troop/naval locations and compositions (such as armies and fleets) should be disclosed when requested. We assume a basic amount of intel is being carried out by states at all times, and stuff this big is implied in this. Just as players are able to launch missiles at military/civilian targets (which we assume they know of from standard intel), the same would apply towards location of an entire fleet. 

 

However, things that are less obvious do not need to be directly disclosed. Included in this would be the location of submarines, aircraft, small ship formations especially in more isolated areas, commandos/special ops forces, and secret defenses/attacks that have not been previously uncovered or known. 

 

If you want, you are able to PM me with the location/composition of your submarines, aircraft, special ops, secret defenses, etc. and keep me updated with secret deployments when you post your normal movements/deployments. This will remain secret until such a time as they reveal themselves or the enemy RPs out appropriate reconnaissance, etc. (Basically, the GM won't reveal confidential information).

 

So, specifically, yes Rudy can have a navy and yes Yeru should disclose the fleet information to Eva.

 

Finally, as a note I will be unavailable until late tomorrow. Assume the lock is lifted at 8PM EST on Monday.

Edited by Californian
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Repeating my questions to Rudolph here, given he seemed to not notice them on IRC and might respond later:

 

<Evangeline> I guess your fortifications are improvised ones, given no prior RP exists for them?
<Evangeline> And please point out their location, thanks
<Evangeline> Also, I need a bit of a number of how many forces are actually opposing me and firing at my troops from your fortifications
<Evangeline> It does make a difference whether these are a few sporadic emplacements or the bulk of the Yugo army
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No.  I would also like to know by the way how 6000 land attack missile launchers (very heavy pieces of equipment were brought so fast from France to Japan Japan to France, its my understanding he's going the longway too.  The other thing is how exactly did people find the Royal Navy which is around Britain in the North Atlantic.  Nobody has SOSUS there (SOSUS are singular lines which you cross not long range tracking) and emission signals were RPed as hidden.

 

Edit:  I'm getting my post ready but there are some problems beyond finding stuff, which I don't really see any explanation but assuming some stuff is found

 

For FHIC

 

FHIC's Perseus Missile.  Based on what FHIC has written she uses the missile based on the Brahmos.  The Brahmos cannot be launched from the Rafale, and building hypersonic missiles in smaller configuration which is what the proposed next Brahmos does is not built yet.

 

Brahmos missiles also are not land attack so hitting targets seems, hard to see.

 

What 300 unmanned aerial vehicles is FHIC referring to?  As far as I know all the ones in service don't carry any heavy ordinance.  

Also as just a general note the British went on alert, so the idea of surprise isn't really applicable but that's an adjective choice.

 

For Yeru:  Did you actually attack?

 

For Mogar:  Again 6000 missile take a really long time to move.  Didn't you post movements a week before the attack.  

 

Which btw, I hope is your maximum numbers of missiles total if we play by common sense.

 

The idea that the Japanese fleet could operate with no EM tansmissions seems highly suspect.  Especially because there is no actual proof the RQ-170 as an AESA radar and if it does have it its highly under powered as a long range surveillance system for tracking the world's largest navy, nor would its out detection range get a whole navy which is spread over a very wide area.

 

Also how exactly do you get strategic surprise when it takes a really long time to launch 270 aircraft off of carriers?

 

For Mara:

 

"Three RQ-170s were launched from the carriers' decks, making their way towards the British fleet."  RQ-170 is not a carrier based drone nor could it be.

 

"E-4 AWACS platforms"  When did these start existing?

 

"All comms would be done via satellite, to limit the possibility of detection. Otherwise, the only emissions the fleet would make with be that of the RADAR, which, until the British fleet was found or the fleet was alerted to incoming threats, would be held in standby."  Well this is not technically wrong persay, its more the sats you'd need to use to do this have very low bandwidth and you couldn't run a fleet without detection.  I can just write with this, that's just a heads up.

 

"Then, like an almighty hammer, six hundred Harpoons and TASMs would be fired at the British fleet when they reached their respective ranges"  <--- How exactly.  You don't have the ability to carry that many on aircraft, if you're in carrier range, at the beginning of the post how did you close to 120 kilometer range to fire Harpoons in the span of half a post.  That's pretty much a 300 kilometer jump.  

 

Further if you did not know where my fleet was in the beginning of my post, how did you mass all your ships to engage it perfectly?

 

Lyn's aside from again SOSUS are lines, you don't have any in the part of the North Atlantic around Britain, yours is just, well not executed the best.

 

But really for everyone except the land based stuff, how exactly did you insta position to be in firing range if you started off the post not knowing where my fleets are.  The waters in the North Atlantic are very big around Britain, and drones have a very limited range, and ships move at at most 30 knots.  To say they were all magically in position (especially those crossing two oceans) seems a huge god mode.

 

Now assuming everyones constantly moving and only 5 drones of theirs as I count were doing this mission, none of which have long persistence or high altitude to cover a lot of Ocean (btw the radar foot print is quite small and imaging resolutions are lower the higher up you are), the idea that you can find the whole thing, and move fighters which take a long time to launch both from 480 kilos and more importantly move ships into missile positions from only 120 kilos on ships with a 30+ knot max speed limit seems hard to argue in the span of one post.

Edited by Triyun
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