905tf Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) From: 905@ultrafark****.org Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:19 PM To: Tom@ultrafark****.orgThanks, Tom, for your insightful input. I'll definitely keep the Farkistan/NATO clauses that I bolded in the final treaty though and you can go on a one-way, all expenses-paid trip to the place where the fella with the pointed stick and horns conducts his daily affairs! Regards, -905 Head Programmer/Submitter/Cheese Aficionado ----------------------- From: Tom@ultrafark****.org Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:19 PM To: 905@ultrafark****.org To the Idiot 905, Master of Complete Stupidity: You appear to be advocating a new functional, stack-based, "multi-paradigm", eager, statically-typed, impure, non-hygienic, visual, beginner-friendly and completely incomprehensible treaty programming language. Your treaty language will not work. Here is why it will not work. You appear to believe that that syntax is what makes treaty programming difficult, that garbage collection is free, that nobody really needs I/O, that scaling up to large software projects will be easy, that convincing programmers to adopt a language-specific IDE will be easy, that programmers love writing lots of boilerplate, that specifying behaviors as "undefined" means that programmers won't rely on them and that "Spooky action at a distance" makes programming more fun. Unfortunately, your language has comprehensible syntax, lacks semicolons, has macros, lacks type inference, has goto, has coroutines, has operator overloading, lacks algebraic datatypes, lacks polymorphic types, lacks monads, lacks nested comments, has call-by-reference and has call-cc. The following philosophical objections apply: * Farkistan and NATO agree to share info, intel and aid with each other. * Farkistan and NATO agree to not shoot at each other, but in case an accidental mishap occurs, both parties agree to resolve the incident peacefully as quickly as possible via fair reps (150% of damages) and an exchange of an appropriate amount of bacon, beer and drink recipes. * Interpreted languages will never be as fast as C * Compiled languages will never be "extensible" * Should either Farkistan or NATO get attacked, the other is welcome and encouraged to defend should they choose to. * Should either Farkistan or NATO decide to start some mischief by attacking another AA, the other is also welcome to join in the fun if they so choose. * At no time is either Farkistan or NATO forced to chain in on this treaty, but they are certainly welcome to join the other in battle should they both choose to. * There are less than 100 programmers on Bob smart enough to use your treaty language. Your implementation has the following flaws: * CPUs do not work that way * RAM does not work that way * VMs do not work that way * Should Farkistan or NATO decide to dissolve this treaty, a 72-hour notification period is required. * You require the compiler to be present at runtime * You require the language runtime to be present at compile-time * Your compiler errors are completely inscrutable * Dangerous behavior is only a warning * You don't seem to understand basic optimization techniques * You don't seem to understand basic systems programming * You don't seem to understand pointers * You don't seem to understand functions. Additionally, your marketing has the following problems: * Obviously rigged benchmarks Graphics, simulation, or crypto benchmarks where your code just calls handwritten assembly through your FFI and String-processing benchmarks where you just call PCRE * Noone really believes that your language is faster than assembly, C nor FORTRAN * Rejection of basic computer science without justification. Taking the wider ecosystem into account, I would like to note that we already have a safe statically-typed eager functional language, you have reinvented Java but worse, you have reinvented PHP but worse and you have reinvented Brainfark but non-ironically. In conclusion, I think you have some interesting ideas, but this won't fly and this is a bad language, and you should feel bad for inventing it. DIAF, moran -Tom ***** Farkistan Treaty Programmer, III --- Signed for Farkistan: 905 - Submitter Mr Vicarious - Squirrel Rollo Gigante - Speaker of theTotalfark Council One_Eighty_Two - Totalfark Council Slick Johnson - Totalfark Council CountryMouse - Totalfark Council Decide R Inchief - Totalfark Council Signed for NATO: Tsayka, Secretary General Berbers, Secretary of Foreign Affairs Jekalle, Secretary of Defense Landon Esser, Secretary of Commerce Lonabis, Secretary of Enlistment Tallon, Chief Justice Edited August 30, 2014 by 905tf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Hey, hey, congrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katashimon13 Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 :kata: man i wish that worked heer D: rawr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmbroseIV Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 I'm not gonna say about time, but damn — I feel privileged to've lived to see the day. :P Congratulations to you both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcrews Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 This treaty is one of those things you think already exist for some reason and then surprises you when it's announced. Congratz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scourge Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Hilarious text, 10/10, would read again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garion Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Playing matchmaker never felt this good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williambonney Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Time to break out some budweisers? Congrats Fark and Nato :wub: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pansy Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Took my 2nd life to see this go full circle. Congrats to my dear friends in FARK, and Roll NATO Berbers Polar Bear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Pansy :wub: Hail to this treaty, been a long time in the making! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anarquista Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 congrats to our friends in NATO ГО NATO ГО stability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HM Solomon I Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 It's about time. :D Congrats!! o/ NATO o/ Fark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmf0203 Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Love you both. Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dajobo Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 I'm delighted to see this long overdue treaty announced.o/ NATOo/ Fark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njero Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 We've finally completed the first milestone in operation Lazy Arse, the NATO plan to never be bothered with writing a post-war beer review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njero Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Roll NATO Berbers Polar Bear. Shhh, shhh. They're just words big guy, they can't hurt you. People still wanna roll you. Sure they do. edit: Apologies for the double post. Came through a second time from a post link and had a derp. Edited August 30, 2014 by Njero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbasmehdi Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 now this a treaty of the year Congratz you two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Buscemi Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Everyone loves NATO, they are generous lovers. Congrats to you both! This treaty is one of those things you think already exist for some reason and then surprises you when it's announced. Congrats Have to agree with you on this. Seems like this should've existed long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prozenz Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Congrats to us, yay! :beers: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozDaBoz Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Nice job! I look forward to to knowing our friends in NATO better. Celebratory beer for everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurthwaite Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 I'm not gonna say about time, but damn — I feel privileged to've lived to see the day. :P Congratulations to you both! It would have been better had they had another thread that tagged both but wasn't a treaty before they posted this. Anyway, good luck to my friends in FARK and their new friends in NATO. Now, if you would just roll R&R... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Zone Elite Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 * You require the compiler to be present at runtime * You require the language runtime to be present at compile-time Wait, what? you have reinvented Java but worse, you have reinvented PHP but worse and you have reinvented Brainfark but non-ironically. These are pretty serious and insulting accusations, 905tf has a pretty solid casus belli on this alone. Congrats Fark and NATO!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montosh Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Congratulations guys. Great text and an even better treaty :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyt2k Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Drunk polar bears That's all I'm gonna say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Good to see this :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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