A Petition to the Community at Large: Regarding PZI

[Starfox101]

(Nothing against you specifically Ray, I pick your post because it's good in presenting a point of view I completely disagree with.)

 

First, Starfox is not saying that everyone having made "OOC attacks" should be purged, but that it's hypocritical of those that made, make and most probably will continue to make "OOC attacks", and/or that support/defend in the game and on the forums people guilty of that, to go on a witch hunt against anyone making OOC attacks as well. Schattenmann was presenting a similar point of view.

 

Second, it turns out that o ya baby is an excellent example of what you'd call a repeat offender. "Biodadbaby" created "that" thread on the MK forums and his posts there were a Christmas tree of OOC attacks. When the main victim of that enormous collective OOC abuse wrote them a letter that was posted in that thread, letter in which, among many other things, they said "In playing this game I never imagined someone would actually use a RL nightmare as a weapon for an attack on someone", biodadbaby's immediate reply was "bahhahahahahahaha" and he then added another sexually-based OOC attack against that person, just for good measure. Mentioning just these few facts is even making an injustice to oya's prolific contribution to that situation. It wasn't even the only other situation in which he graced everyone with his finesse. Go figure.

If you care to pay attention to facts, you will also notice how oya didn't make any show of regret for his most recent OOC attack, his only further comment that could maybe be considered on that topic (but I don't think so) was "This topic is not failing to deliver".

Anyway, I don't fault oya for not apologizing: he wouldn't be credible in the slightest, anyway. I'd just wish that he stopped being like that, or that he moved as far as possible otherwise.

 

Third, who gave you, Starfox, Rey or anyone else the duty/right to vigil over CN, and to be jury and executioner? Why should any of the other players trust that you are never wrong in your decisions about who gets or not to play the game? Or would we want to start talking of possible intentional abuses of vigilantism? I know who only I trust to never abuse absolute power here, thank you, and none of them is "just" a player.

I don't even want to know if oya should get punished for that (very bad) OOC post: it's not my call to make and I will never advocate for in-game actions against him for whatever good/bad OOC stuff he does. At most, I could have reported his post for others to judge the situation, if that hadn't already been done.

By the way, what do you think that IC action can actually do? Oya recently spied on my nation because of some OOC post of mine - not that he cared to confront me about the issue before doing it, by the way: again a classy and clever way to go - and I guess he would have attacked it, hadn't it been in Peace Mode. Did that prevent me from posting in any way? Isn't this a post? Isn't the whole idea completely retarded?

 

Fourth and last, you're right that we as a community should change, and draw a line in the sand. Starfox said that "majority of us are guilty of some form of OOC attack at some point"... well, no, that's not actually the case. There are lots of players that are able to be always nice towards the other players of this game, and we should take example from them, also asking to our "friends" to do the same. It really isn't anything more than that: be the change that you wish for.

Also, when you think that something is wrong, stand up and speak against it, even if it means that you're going to be confronted by an angry mob. Much of my respect to the one that was first to speak against this lynching: your bravery and your integrity didn't go unnoticed, maxfiles.

Very good post.

[Rayvon]

Yep alright. Im the only one here capable of error and misunderstand/missing certain points that I never had been privvy to. I'm just such a god-awful member of this community for taking part in conversations to help improve things. I'm such a god-awful person for trying to suggest that these open witch hunt threads aren't helpful and perpetuate the problem we all want to see fixed.

Judge, jury and executioner? No one claimed as such Jerdge. The discussion and purpose of this thead is of such a nature. Starfox had to bring the Oya baby thing into here, suggesting that he say Oya take the same fate - his words kinda helped give the impression of that post too.

But alas, I no longer care. OOC away, enjoy yourselves, wish death and malice upon whichever human being you all feel and deem fit - the community, Jerdge and Starfox will ensure this apparently - allow it ... AS LONG AS THEY'RE EX-MK.

And continue !@#$%* and chew anyone who agrees with you but offers a different view. I really don't give a $%&@. This ooc !@#$%^&* is why I quit playing and just got grumpy.

Cheers !@#$%*es.


edit:
And Starfox, I wasn't suggesting I would try to purge you .. Do keep up, and keep the politics out of this. Ultimately we're in agreeance here and want to see the same thing in the end, you just can't keep consistent on your message where I am trying.
 

Regardless, you played down what O ya said, and basically attempted to argue it as a lesser OOC attack. That simply doesn't exist. If you wish to rile the community up to PZI one player for an OOC attack, apply it across the board. It was noted many times that you were the wrong person to start this thread, and now it is abundantly clear why. No amount of sarcastic responses will change that.

Go ahead and try and purge me. My last offense would probably be 6-7 years ago back when I was in LUE and would probably be nothing more than saying NPOers were nerds irl. Which, while wrong, is not even close to what is being discussed here. Honestly, I've never really gotten too close with anyone in this game to be going around making comments in back channels, or even enough to learn about people's lives other than what is posted here. I prefer it that way.

You helped make my point for me. Edited August 13, 2014 by Rayvon

[jerdge]

Ray, I tried to make my post not about you, but about the points you were making. If I didn't succeed in that I apologize. It wasn't my intention to single you out and I have nothing against you.
 
I still think that you're misunderstanding Starfox, and I tried to point out where you are, but that doesn't mean that I agree with him. Specifically: I disagree with his approval of the witch hunt against Rota, earlier in the thread, and with his possible support for any other witch hunt, against oya or anyone else.
 
Moreover, you seemed to be calling for the community to stop Rotavele, also complaining not for the anti-Rotavele initiative itself, but just that it had been Rey to create the thread. I think you can see where I got the impression that you were in favour of it: there you get your "jury and executioner" part. If I misunderstood you, again I apologize, adding that you're not without fault either.
 
Finally, where did you get the idea that I was supporting any "death and malice wish" on anyone, "ex-MK" or otherwise? I have been saying and advocated the exact opposite behaviour, since at least 2008.

Considering the past insults coming from many "ex-MK" players one in my position could very well be against those players, only with the definitely non-negligible detail that this player is still able to distinguish the game from the people!

The MK was/is an in-game entity and the insults were instead firmly rooted in the RL/OOC side of things, thus no: I hold no grudges against the in-game entity (lol) or against those that participated into it.

I actually hold no grudges against the individuals that insulted me either - insulting is one thing, offending a completely different one - I just remember what they did.

[White Chocolate]

Out off all the possible happenings to remember about Rotavele, the one that I recall the most is the thread where FAN recently made their announcment about yellow team senate.  I explained what happened between the FAN member and The Javahouse League (because people were assuming at the time that it was a FAN DoW, which it was not) and I started getting - um - the usual "comments" based on politics that are so common in this world of ours . 

 

Out of all people, it was Rotavele who spoke up and said that regardless of how Rotavele felt about my ties to DBDC and tJL, in this case (the yellow team drama) The Javahouse League should not of been attacked, etc.

 

That was, in my opinion, an extremely mature and insightful comment to make and needed as it's so rare in this world for people to seperate individual incidents from how they view the current politics. 

 

My point is, everyone plays his or her role.  For one of more nation leader to decide for him or herself that another person has gone to far is not something that is truely in his/her power nor should it be.

 

So yes,

Third, who gave you, Starfox, Rey or anyone else the duty/right to vigil over CN, and to be jury and executioner? Why should any of the other players trust that you are never wrong in your decisions about who gets or not to play the game? Or would we want to start talking of possible intentional abuses of vigilantism? I know who only I trust to never abuse absolute power here, thank you, and none of them is "just" a player.
 

I agree with jerdge on this.

[Master Hakai]

Out off all the possible happenings to remember about Rotavele, the one that I recall the most is the thread where FAN recently made their announcment about yellow team senate.  I explained what happened between the FAN member and The Javahouse League (because people were assuming at the time that it was a FAN DoW, which it was not) and I started getting - um - the usual "comments" based on politics that are so common in this world of ours . 

 

Out of all people, it was Rotavele who spoke up and said that regardless of how Rotavele felt about my ties to DBDC and tJL, in this case (the yellow team drama) The Javahouse League should not of been attacked, etc.

 

That was, in my opinion, an extremely mature and insightful comment to make and needed as it's so rare in this world for people to seperate individual incidents from how they view the current politics. 

 

My point is, everyone plays his or her role.  For one of more nation leader to decide for him or herself that another person has gone to far is not something that is truely in his/her power nor should it be.

 

So yes,

I agree with jerdge on this.

Michael Scott used to make sense once in a while, too.

 

Are you saying we shouldn't also EZI Michael Scott because every once in a while he does/says something mature? I say no. I say Michael Scott should be put on EZA starring Emma Stone and featuring Amanda Bynes and Johanna Braddy.

[Neo Uruk]

I think John Gacy was an excellent person. I mean, he performed at parties!

Gonna crank it up to 11 if we're all gonna be dumb here.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Neo Uruk

[ChairmanHal]

This game has a long history of people doing "opposition research" into the OOC backgrounds of people for purposes of digging up anything that could be used as a weapon to "win" the game or create some sort of leverage to use against others. Therefore o ya baby is not the first person to be involved in such dickery, nor is he unique in being totally unapologetic about it.  "Opposition research" has hurt player retention/recovery, inhibited the growth of the game, and has even short circuited a global war.  

 

I'd like to say that Cyber Nations is unique among gaming communities in the amount of "opposition research" that goes on, but it is not.  In my own limited gaming experience I've seen it affect gaming communities both larger and smaller than this one.  However, just because it goes on in other places, by no means justifies it.

 

We are weaker as a community for it.  If this game is indeed "dying" as some claim, then it is on the short list of reasons why it is dying.  

 

The worst part of it that it is a self-inflicted knife wound.  If you love the game, simply enjoy playing it, like to brag about how great you are at it, or simply want to have an excuse to hang out with your online friends, then do the community a favor.  The next time someone talks about digging into someone's background or insists on gossiping about someone OOC spreading things that may or may not be true doing the following: tell them to shut the fuck up.  If you control an IRC channel, kick/ban them.  If you control a forum, delete the topic.  This isn't about free speech, this is about civility.  If people refuse to be civil, then they should be left exercising their right to free speech talking to themselves.

[Master Hakai]

I think John Gacy was an excellent person. I mean, he performed at parties!

Gonna crank it up to 11 if we're all gonna be dumb here.

Only 11? Surprising low for you IMO

[White Chocolate]

Michael Scott used to make sense once in a while, too.

 

Are you saying we shouldn't also EZI Michael Scott because every once in a while he does/says something mature? I say no. I say Michael Scott should be put on EZA starring Emma Stone and featuring Amanda Bynes and Johanna Braddy.

I'm saying I'm not a supporter of PZI or EZI in general, and not just because I think most people have something to contribute and/or that it should be left to the judgment of almighty admin although those are reasons.  I also want to know where my enemies are.

 

But I wouldn't dream of trying to dictate what you should and shouldn't do.  I like master hakai and Kashmir well enough how you are.

[Master Hakai]

I was making a statement about EZA

[Ogaden]

So this thread is still going on huh

[Neo Uruk]

yeah we tried to jam another issue into it, and then people are still defending the now-deleted Rotavele

[jerdge]

yeah we tried to jam another issue into it, and then people are still defending the now-deleted Rotavele

Isn't it about time that you grasp the difference between defending a player and saying that other players shouldn't go vigilante?

[Neo Uruk]

Isn't it about time that you grasp the difference between defending a player and saying that other players shouldn't go vigilante?

Isn't it about time that you grasp the difference between responding to you and responding to other people?

[Williambonney]

So this thread is still going on huh

Yeah this sums up my thoughts exactly. Seems the dead horses can't be tenderized enough for some folks.


Hey barkeep, more vodka down here, and make it a double!

[Starfox101]

Yep alright. Im the only one here capable of error and misunderstand/missing certain points that I never had been privvy to. I'm just such a god-awful member of this community for taking part in conversations to help improve things. I'm such a god-awful person for trying to suggest that these open witch hunt threads aren't helpful and perpetuate the problem we all want to see fixed.

Judge, jury and executioner? No one claimed as such Jerdge. The discussion and purpose of this thead is of such a nature. Starfox had to bring the Oya baby thing into here, suggesting that he say Oya take the same fate - his words kinda helped give the impression of that post too.

But alas, I no longer care. OOC away, enjoy yourselves, wish death and malice upon whichever human being you all feel and deem fit - the community, Jerdge and Starfox will ensure this apparently - allow it ... AS LONG AS THEY'RE EX-MK.

And continue !@#$%* and chew anyone who agrees with you but offers a different view. I really don't give a $%&@. This ooc !@#$%^&* is why I quit playing and just got grumpy.

Cheers !@#$%*es.


edit:
And Starfox, I wasn't suggesting I would try to purge you .. Do keep up, and keep the politics out of this. Ultimately we're in agreeance here and want to see the same thing in the end, you just can't keep consistent on your message where I am trying.
 

You helped make my point for me.

You're being completely overly dramatic and making a huge deal of a small comment. Nobody wished death upon anyone. Well, aside from you when you joined us in purging Rota from the game. I merely posted this here to see if the same outrage would be made coming from a well connected DBDC member, with a very, very long history of acting like a pretty terrible person. I understand it's not realistic to kick him out of the game, and nobody has tried. Not me, or Jerdge. We're simply commenting on the fact that people like you - will run one player out for an OOC attack - and defend another for it. It's completely hypocritical, and people like you should never have even been involved in even posting in this thread or the original incident. if you can't understand why cursing one for doing it, and defending another, then it's a huge waste of breath because you are helpless.

 

Lastly, there is no comparison between calling someone a nerd and making jokes about RL death. I'm sure even you can grasp that.