The Return of the Userites

[Garion]

Some alliances will choose to side with order, and justice. Others will seek to lend their support to the heinous forces of destruction, and greed.

You can't possibly be this naive.

[The Zigur]

You can't possibly be this naive.

 

I guess we see which side Garion plans to be on. :awesome:

[Garion]

Feel free to start a war anytime, just dont paint it as a moral crusade. We've all seen too many of those.

I'd hold in higher esteem people on either side portraying events as they are: culling threats, removing (possible) enemies, getting chains of treaties into motion. The posturing is just stale.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Garion

[Mogar]

Feel free to start a war anytime, just dont paint it as a moral crusade. We've all seen too many of those.

I'd hold in higher esteem people on either side portraying events as they are: culling threats, removing (possible) enemies, getting chains of treaties into motion. The posturing is just stale.

considering how long ago it was knowledge they planned on hitting Pax, I'd say it is a fairly accurate statement that DBDC's intention is to draw more ire and perhaps even some others in, due to as previously stated, their very strong political position.

[Baltus]

DBDC cannot be considered a legitimate alliance because of the reckless way it has conducted itself, with no regard to global precedent and history, and no regard to the sovereignty of other alliances. They are nothing more than a group of high tier terrorists, and those who would align with them should be seen as class traitors and collaborators.

So DBDC isn't a legitimate alliance just because they don't fit your definition of how an alliance should act? There are several alliances that don't fit the bill of a typical alliance but few question their legitimacy as an alliance itself (Vox Populi, FAN, etc.) 

[AlmightyGrub]

I get your point. However as speaking as a non governmental member of my alliance, this has been suggested many times. It comes down to if say Pax and GPA act together according to said plan then Pax and GPA are de fatco no longer neutral. It is again the main failing and blessing of being neutral.

 

The main failing of being neutral is the being neutral part of it.  Anyone who has no friends, seeks no friends and helps no one regardless of the circumstance is just ripe fruit.  And while we are berating neutrals, can you tell me why all neutrals aren't just in one alliance.  I mean, if you don't actually doing anything, you don't contribute anything or indeed mean anything, surely you could just do that in the same place?  Wouldn't that be a better and more convenient waste of your time than all these useless blobs of NS that do nothing except piss and moan when they get the isolationist butts handed to them?

[The Zigur]

So DBDC isn't a legitimate alliance just because they don't fit your definition of how an alliance should act? There are several alliances that don't fit the bill of a typical alliance but few question their legitimacy as an alliance itself (Vox Populi, FAN, etc.) 

 

In the case of Vox Populi, despite some of the claims of retards over there I had argued from the beginning that it was never an alliance, and left after the formal alliance declaration of existence was made.

 

Untenable moral idealism is not an engine that will propel the Revolution. It will power Vox Populi, but I do not believe Vox Populi represents a revolutionary front in itself any longer with it's incorporation of a government and establishment as an alliance. There was, incidentally, a reason why I strongly opposed the alliance government model: as an alliance, there is nothing special about it. In normal circumstances, i.e. peacetime, an alliance with sovereignty invested in a central authority is highly conducive to success as internal disputes are resolved and organization allows nations to march forward. But as Vox is in a perpetual state of war, material conditions change and different measures must be taken (the anarchic collective, with the potential of organized units). I found incorporation to be disappointing and counterproductive to revolutionary goals.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[the rebel]

I mean, if you don't actually doing anything, you don't contribute anything or indeed mean anything, surely you could just do that in the same place?

I think you would get the same answer if the question was why don't all fighting nations join just two alliances and duke it out instead of the 100+.

Its never a one glove fits all.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

 

I get your point. However as speaking as a non governmental member of my alliance, this has been suggested many times. It comes down to if say Pax and GPA act together according to said plan then Pax and GPA are de fatco no longer neutral. It is again the main failing and blessing of being neutral.

This is stupid and wrong, though unfortunately I know how strongly engrained it has become in some neutral alliances to think this.

Being neutral means minding your own business and forming no permanent alliances but there is absolutely no reason it should entail pacifism or an unwillingness to respond to imminent threats.

[Rayvon]

 

This is stupid and wrong, though unfortunately I know how strongly engrained it has become in some neutral alliances to think this.
Being neutral means minding your own business and forming no permanent alliances but there is absolutely no reason it should entail pacifism or an unwillingness to respond to imminent threats.

Living The Great Lie. Edited August 5, 2014 by Rayvon

[Canik]

Feel free to start a war anytime, just dont paint it as a moral crusade. We've all seen too many of those.

I'd hold in higher esteem people on either side portraying events as they are: culling threats, removing (possible) enemies, getting chains of treaties into motion. The posturing is just stale.

Couldn't agree more. I've fought for & against nearly every corner of the web and the differences aren't that dramatic. No matter where you go, everyone is looking out for numero uno. Even the neutrals. Especially the neutrals.

[Cortath]

Francoism does not use the terms "userite" or "feederite" on Planet Bob because there are no class distinctions here. In that other world, the Pacific and the other feeder regions were the birthplace of all nations. Because they were the birthplaces of nations, and ultimately, nations and controlling them are the building blocks of power, nations were like the means of production. Thus, the userites, people who controlled user-created regions, attempted to control the means of production by controlling the governments of the feeder regions.

 

Thus, when we speak of "userites" controlling the feeder regions, we speak of dictators such as "theDoc" whom Francos Spain, a native of the the Pacific overthrew, returning the feeder region to native control.

 

***

 

There is no such class distinction on Planet Bob. There are no classes. There is no inherent mechanic that creates an analogous means of production. You are using the term "userite" simply to mean "people I don't like," which is anathema to a Francoist philosophy that demands that we describe reality as it really is, not as we would like it to be.

 

Francoism is simple in that it eschews absolute labels, principles, Gods, and demands that we view the world as it is, analyze the world as it is, and build principles, structures, and institutions that grapple with the world as it is. We do not preach "Enlightened Order." We simply seek to create a system in which our nations can seek peace, strength, and prosperity. We do not hold ourselves as enlightened, or wiser than others, for we are not. Our Emperor is absolute in his sovereignty, but not absolute in his wisdom. It is the duty of Francoists to build institutions that attempt to unite our wisdom in the Emperor, but it is an ongoing, never-finished task, for we are all but human.

 

Francoism is not a "world philosophy." We do not impose our ideology on others. We do not seek to give strength, peace, prosperity to others who do not want it; we only seek it for ourselves. We do not, and have never attempted conquest in the name of spreading Francoism to others. Francoism is a philosophy for us. Certainly, others can attempt to govern under its guiding principles, but it is not some heathen religion we convert others to by the sword, but a set of philosophies that comrades take to heart.

 

I hope this brief missive corrects any misconceptions about Francoism.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Cortath

[The Zigur]

Comrade, I tend to disagree with you on the point about Userites in this world. I would agree with you that there were no classes when The Pacific first introduced Francoist civilization in our world. However, since then the laws of physics have weakened amongst the uppermost tier, amongst nations who cynically encouraged the chaos of the post-Karma world to build themselves up, resulting in their capability to declare down on nations hundreds of thousands of nation strength smaller. This is combined with a deliberate attempt to weaken civilization by disregarding the sovereignty of alliances, and essentially encouraging others to do so in the name of some perverse anti-Francoist liberalism.

 

I believe that if DBDC is not either reformed or deterred, the outcome will be catastrophic. Due to the weakness of physics in the upper tier, confronting or isolating their degenerate actions has become a more challenging proposition than the other anti-Francoist ideologies which had to be crushed. We are existing in a remnant civilization of the Great Hegemony which provided the opportunity of Order to all nations, and this civilization is under attack. This civilization is built on Francoist principles such as mutual respect for alliance sovereignty and the Casus Belli.

 

As our civilization moves away from these core principles of sovereignty, it will become more chaotic and vulnerable to invasion by lulzists, /b/tards and other filthy degenerates we have crushed throughout history. As alliances degenerate into chaos, freedom of potential will diminish and vanish, and the DBDC colossus would stand above all nations, enforcing a hierarchical society bent on exploiting and crushing small nations that are crippled by degeneracy and chaos. This is the Class Warfare that results in a breakdown of Order and introduction of anti-Francoist multiculturalism. NPO itself was a victim of this dynamic during the corrupt reign of the Mushroom Kingdom.

 

In my belief, it is our duty to safeguard civilization and the Francoist way before even more nations flee from our world. It is our duty to bring about Francoist Hegemony once more for the benefit of all nations.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Tywin Lannister