Complacency

[mattski133]

It seems that most people are content to play by the rules that were made up years ago and are not willing to make their own path.  Large, centralized powers broke down as wars and time wore on, pulverizing many of them into shadows of their former selves, the crumbs of which formed their own small satellites.  These small alliances rearranged themselves in preference and have bound themselves to the larger ones in an almost feudal system of organization, where the smaller alliances pledge their sovereignty during war in exchange for protection during peace.

 

I think this approach may have made sense in the days before everyone could secure nuclear weapons, but a new nation today can pick them up in less than six months.  I can't imagine why an alliance would not want to take its own path.

[Freelancer]

I can't imagine why an alliance would not want to take its own path.

Speaking from experience and somehow always magically finding myself on the loosing end of no contest fight, it's a full time job trying to shut the thing down even after 2-3 weeks.

I could easily point to an example from last week that could have easily sparked a micro backroom brawl, but as all things in this world you actually have to check with 10 people to make sure you don't get curb stomped in the process ... That get's old, you guys did attempt to break that paradigm, Kudo's, but you found out quick it's a battle not easily won
 

[Stewie]

It seems that most people are content to play by the rules that were made up years ago and are not willing to make their own path.  Large, centralized powers broke down as wars and time wore on, pulverizing many of them into shadows of their former selves, the crumbs of which formed their own small satellites.  These small alliances rearranged themselves in preference and have bound themselves to the larger ones in an almost feudal system of organization, where the smaller alliances pledge their sovereignty during war in exchange for protection during peace.

 

I think this approach may have made sense in the days before everyone could secure nuclear weapons, but a new nation today can pick them up in less than six months.  I can't imagine why an alliance would not want to take its own path.

 

Because wars are no longer fought for honour, or because of some casus belli.

 

They are fought by who has the biggest set of sticks to drop on your head.

 

For the past 3 years NG has fought 7+ alliances every war.

[mattski133]

Speaking from experience and somehow always magically finding myself on the loosing end of no contest fight, it's a full time job trying to shut the thing down even after 2-3 weeks.

I could easily point to an example from last week that could have easily sparked a micro backroom brawl, but as all things in this world you actually have to check with 10 people to make sure you don't get curb stomped in the process ... That get's old, you guys did attempt to break that paradigm, Kudo's, but you found out quick it's a battle not easily won

 

I think the near constant elevated threat level is what makes it fun.  You definitely need to be on your readiness game.  And it turns out in a micro v micro battle, you usually end up making a friend or a bitter enemy.  Even losing can be somewhat fun, as learned in GOONS.

 

 

Because wars are no longer fought for honour, or because of some casus belli.

 

They are fought by who has the biggest set of sticks to drop on your head.

 

For the past 3 years NG has fought 7+ alliances every war.

 

Frozen, pre-cooked warfare.  It's boring and I think people are just tired of it.  I'm not even sure if or how it can be fixed.  It's like no one is really trying to rule the world anymore.

[Master Hakai]

 

Because wars are no longer fought for honour, or because of some casus belli.

 

They are fought by who has the biggest set of sticks to drop on your head.

 

For the past 3 years NG has fought 7+ alliances every war.

NG is a good example of an alliance that doesn't use treaties to position itself on the winning end of every curbstomp or at least avoid it entirely. Most people here prefer to play it safe.

[Stewie]

NG is a good example of an alliance that doesn't use treaties to position itself on the winning end of every curbstomp or at least avoid it entirely. Most people here prefer to play it safe.

 

Equilibrium we could have ignored out treaties with TLR and chained in OA first round against Umbrella as we were asked.

 

I guess fighting allies of allies isn't in our DNA.  Even if we did have issues between ourselves and Umbrella at the time in question.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Stewie

[IYIyTh]

Sparta made it clear they wouldn't mind another punch on us and quite a few other alliances in your sphere have made it clear they don't like us SJ. So yes, there are alliances who want another NG hit. Issue being NG didn't act like your puppet at the end of the last war by dropping IRON like you all wanted so they didn't become toxic to be treaties to.

Now what we have had for the lost war period is Sparta trying 3 ways from Sunday to either foster ties between XX and NPO/C&G/NG or to make inroads into an Aztec treaty.

Neither worked because
A: Aztec do what is best for Aztec. They have no desire to become a swing bloc.

B: a Sparta - NPO treaty was clear to be used so that you could throw that sphere against Aztec and IRON.

Welp.

You guys really need ardus or 1337... Because your plots are about as useful as a &#$@ flavoured lollypop.

World Peace!

Time to crack open the bottles of cyanide to celebrate

:smug:

 

Hey, people started talking to you, so don't give me that ;). Granted I think you were still relatively gone at that point.

 

In Non Grata's case I find it interesting in the hypocritical quickness to point out the past.

This while forgetting that many of the alliances whose ear you've tried to gain are the same alliances who for a period of time you were more than happy to roll while you had the ability and firepower to do so. In fact, you probably would still be doing so if you could.

 

 

The dynamic nature of trying to build a coalition of people you so recently and routinely denigrated and attempting to push these very same people into conflict to suit your agenda must be an interesting twist.

 

I wouldn't be genuine if I didn't say that I do enjoy that aspect. As well as in order to push your current agenda you're going to have to do a lot of the heavy lifting yourself -- which you do hint at being a lot harder than in the past given your current circumstance. Hasn't stopped you from looking almost everywhere else, as it turns out. Hell, I don't know who wouldn't be thrilled with your idea of lining them up to take nukes for the noble cause of cutting everyone around you down to size but yourselves. You hit all of the buzzwords, right?

 

I've found that things and people change relatively quickly in this game -- how they operate stays relatively the same.

 

I don't think I've seen a more loaded piece of propaganda in quite some time -- at least you hit on all of the talking points.

 

Maybe it'll take. Maybe it won't.

Edited July 29, 2014 by IYIyTh

[Stewie]

 

Hey, people started talking to you, so don't give me that ;). Granted I think you were still relatively gone at that point.

 

In Non Grata's case I find it interesting in the hypocritical quickness to point out the past.

This while forgetting that many of the alliances whose ear you've tried to gain are the same alliances who for a period of time you were more than happy to roll while you had the ability and firepower to do so. In fact, you probably would still be doing so if you could.

 

 

The dynamic nature of trying to build a coalition of people you so recently and routinely denigrated and attempting to push these very same people into conflict to suit your agenda must be an interesting twist.

 

I wouldn't be genuine if I didn't say that I do enjoy that aspect. As well as in order to push your current agenda you're going to have to do a lot of the heavy lifting yourself -- which you do hint at being a lot harder than in the past given your current circumstance. Hasn't stopped you from looking almost everywhere else, as it turns out. Hell, for someone allegedly trying to build a coalition you did quite a bit of pandering in one post to people who aren't yet thrilled with your idea of lining them up to take nukes for a cause that isn't theirs. .

 

I've found that things and people change relatively quickly in this game -- how they operate stays relatively the same.

 

I don't think I've seen a more loaded piece of propaganda in quite some time -- at least you hit on all of the talking points.

 

Ears I've tried to gain?

 

For people not living in myth's secret hint land, let me explain that.  

 

Since I've started being Tri again in NG I've been working along several routes, one of the major ones being going out to alliances we historically had issues with and found out that a lot of our "issues" stemmed from incomplete information being given by our then leader to membership or our then allies.

 

Or are you talking about me being active with some former allies of our precursor alliances, like R&R (FOK), Dark Templar (PC) and FARK (IFOK).

 

C'mon Myth.  Be honest and open.  I've got nothing to hide, nor do NG as a whole.  My allies all know that I've been trying to stabilise our position to ensure that NG doesn't get rinse repeat rolled by the same alliances over, and over, and over and also to make things at least cordial between ourselves and our allies' allies for future wars where we may be required to fight side by side with them.

 

 

Is this because we didn't give you guys (Sparta/MI6/TOP/Umbrella) a reacharound after you came to us after the last war?

 

EDIT

Also

 

What coalition am I trying to build?

 

That's a new one.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Stewie

[Unknown Smurf]

 

I think the near constant elevated threat level is what makes it fun.  You definitely need to be on your readiness game.  And it turns out in a micro v micro battle, you usually end up making a friend or a bitter enemy.  Even losing can be somewhat fun, as learned in GOONS.

 

 

When did GOONS lose a war? Sard's always been good about finding the right front. 

[Garion]

In Non Grata's case I find it interesting in the hypocritical quickness to point out the past.

This while forgetting that many of the alliances whose ear you've tried to gain are the same alliances who for a period of time you were more than happy to roll while you had the ability and firepower to do so. In fact, you probably would still be doing so if you could.

 

Well, isn't that true for all the real players?

 

I hate(d) NG as every next guy in XX-SF, but to point them out for doing what every other powerbroker would do (and is doing, most probably) in their place, well... Heck, even XX learned to do that (and it was about damn time). Hypocrisy is all over the place, so is moral high horsing, cuddling with disliked people, pointing at 'em big bad guys, and so on.

 

You are too smart to make this argument.

 

 

EDIT and PS: Dajobo, stop messing on the OWF and get back to stuff that matters (replying to me :P ).

Edited July 29, 2014 by Garion

[Stewie]

 

When did GOONS lose a war? Sard's always been good about finding the right front. 

 

Equilibrium

[IYIyTh]

I don't disagree entirely Garion, but that doesn't mean I can't find it comical that the same people Non Grata routinely rolled and denigrated or claims are capable of making their own decisions are the same people whose ear Stewie begs for now.

 

 

I don't fault Non Grata for trying -- but conversely I think it's important to note that NG's clear and desired agenda is for those same alliances to commit themselves to a struggle they don't want for its gain.

 

Instead of directly rolling and denigrating the alliances in question, they merely indirectly sing, dance and salivate at the idea of the same alliances burning but for their bidding for a cause largely mostly no one actually wants to see happen.

 

I don't see R&R putting out hate-mail for Sparta despite the well known relationship. I don't see Aztec or Pacifica painting TOP as an evil, existential threat. I don't even see GATO hating on MI6.

 

I see Non Grata doing all three. Here, and elsewhere.

 

I just wish it was less overt -- maybe Stewies was half-right.

 

Someone needs an Ardus.

[Stewie]

I don't disagree entirely Garion, but that doesn't mean I can't find it comical that the same people Non Grata routinely rolled and denigrated or claims are capable of making their own decisions are the same people whose ear Stewie begs for now.

Beg? Who's ear again am I "begging" for...

I chat with my allies, alongside several alliances I also diplomat to. Please tell us who I am begging to...

I've literally got nothing to hide. It's just you talking out your ass again myth.
 

I don't fault Non Grata for trying -- but conversely I think it's important to note that NG's clear and desired agenda is for those same alliances to commit themselves to a struggle they don't want for its gain.

What struggle? I've made it clear to every alliance I've talked to recently that NG is here to support our allies, we aren't plotting anything (much to many of our allies' annoyance actually haha)

Instead of directly rolling and denigrating the alliances in question, they merely indirectly sing, dance and salivate at the idea of the same alliances burning but for their bidding for a cause largely mostly no one actually wants to see happen.

What cause? What alliances? Our major moves recently have been to try and develop a NAP treaty with several alliances...
 

I don't see R&R putting out hate-mail for Sparta despite the well known relationship. I don't see Aztec or Pacifica painting TOP as an evil, existential threat. I don't even see GATO hating on MI6.


I see Non Grata doing all three. Here, and elsewhere.
 
I just wish it was less overt -- maybe Stewies was half-right.
 
Someone needs an Ardus.

Hate mail for Sparta? Please show me where I've posted hate mail for Sparta
Where have I called TOP the next "big bad"
Where have I been hating on MI6?


WELP! Myth, talking out his ass YET AGAIN!

[IYIyTh]

I'm sure those alliances and playing on their prejudices never come up in you conversations, and if they do it's just a coincidence.

 

Just like it did throughout this thread.

 

Clear and overt agenda. Same song and dance. Always negative and hateful.

 

Anyone familiar with that time period has seen it all before.

[Stewie]

I'm sure those alliances and playing on their prejudices never come up in you conversations, and if they do it's just a coincidence.
 
Just like it did throughout this thread.
 
Clear and overt agenda. Same song and dance. Always negative and hateful.
 
Anyone familiar with that time period has seen it all before.

All haze, no substance, just like a real politician.


I present to you DERP MYTH!

[Garion]

I don't disagree entirely Garion, but that doesn't mean I can't find it comical that the same people Non Grata routinely rolled and denigrated or claims are capable of making their own decisions are the same people whose ear Stewie begs for now.
 
I don't fault Non Grata for trying -- but conversely I think it's important to note that NG's clear and desired agenda is for those same alliances to commit themselves to a struggle they don't want for its gain.
 
Instead of directly rolling and denigrating the alliances in question, they merely indirectly sing, dance and salivate at the idea of the same alliances burning but for their bidding for a cause largely mostly no one actually wants to see happen.

This is literally the storyline of every war I witnessed :| Powerbrokers getting peons in line to do their bidding isn't exactly news around Bob. Disorder, check. EQ, check. Dave, check. Grudge, check. Before that the prosperous nation of Mortavalon wasn't around, so I can't really tell: I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was so, though.

The main actors change, the script is more or less the same. And usually the peons remain peons regardless of the outcome of the wars, just switching sides due the realization they had been used... And just ending up being used again by someone else next round.
 

I don't see R&R putting out hate-mail for Sparta despite the well known relationship. I don't see Aztec or Pacifica painting TOP as an evil, existential threat. I don't even see GATO hating on MI6.
 
I see Non Grata doing all three. Here, and elsewhere.
 
I just wish it was less overt -- maybe Stewies was half-right.
 
Someone needs an Ardus.

Every alliance has its own style, and NG has never been well-known for its tact (hi Caustic!). To say no one else is doing the same is fooling people, tho... I've come back after a long hiatus and immediately noticed that the rumor mills/hate machines are working at full horsepower (and on every side of the field).

Last time it didn't end well for NG, though, I'm sure you recall that as well. I'm really curious to witness the next few weeks/months, myself :P

[IYIyTh]

All haze, no substance, just like a real politician.


I present to you DERP MYTH!

 

I in turn present to you NG diplomacy, since its inception.

 

 

Garion -- I think we're largely on the same page in that regard. 

 

I still think it's important for those who understand how the game is being played to let others know they're being gamed. I've known a many good souls in this game who genuinely aren't aware.

[Auctor]

Looks like Myth caught you. RIP Stewie. I'm going to miss all the good times we had.

[Stewie]

 

I in turn present to you NG diplomacy, since its inception.

 

 

 

Makes a change from NG only being MK's attack dog...

[IYIyTh]

Looks like Myth caught you. RIP Stewie. I'm going to miss all the good times we had.

 

He doesn't steam you the way I would  :awesome: 

[Garion]

I still think it's important for those who understand how the game is being played to let others know they're being gamed. I've known a many good souls in this game who genuinely aren't aware.

Telling people that they were played didn't work during any war I recall, tho (despite it being true most of the time). Particularly if those doing the talking were on the projected losing side... Learnt that lesson quite well :|

[Unknown Smurf]

Telling people that they were played didn't work during any war I recall, tho (despite it being true most of the time). Particularly if those doing the talking were on the projected losing side... Learnt that lesson quite well :|

If anything I would have to credit the puppeteers, assuming this is true.

[Saladjoe]

I mean we all know the rhetoric you've been spewing about the "big bad ebil TOP coming to get us and you!!" but honestly we're, what's your line again, "We're just chilling over here with our friends"? We have no desire to come after anyone or orchestrate some plot against you and your own, despite the obvious issues you have with us. But keep on applying the ready-made "how can we get back at TOP" formula of demonizing and making us out to be the aggressors, and keep pinning your past FA failures on us and feeding the lines out that we're the big bad guys. We'll just continue to outgrow you and sip on our cyanide laced margaritas. The arsenic-flavored mango is a particularly nice touch this time of year too. 

[IYIyTh]

Telling people that they were played didn't work during any war I recall, tho (despite it being true most of the time). Particularly if those doing the talking were on the projected losing side... Learnt that lesson quite well :|

 

 

How would you ever know if it did work if a war for a third party's gain was avoided altogether? :P

[Garion]

How would you ever know if it did work if a war for a third party's gain was avoided altogether? :P

The "avoidment" part would not be due to such preaching, that's for sure.