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Plea to all CN players


stockhunter

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The problem is still, bottom-line, more nations are leaving than joining.  The OP states that all admin can do is get people to join the game, well that ship has apparently sailed.  The number of new nations being created back in 2009 were enough to send a recruiter to message cap just sending recruiting messages if you tried to hit every new nation.  Now, it's not even enough to get close to a warning that you're reaching the message cap, and that's even if you throw in sending out messages around alliance, and to any nations with open trade slots from the first 100 nations you look at on your sphere. 

 

Add to that the fact that only a very very small percentage of those new nations are sticking around long enough to learn anything about the game (even long enough to make a 2nd login to the game), and that the active player is all aging and moving on with their lives... I think yeah, the alliances do have to make things interesting, but there's also the point of trying to keep around the people that show up, as well as getting more people to actually show up. 

 

In this case, you've got to have more people to throw into the wall, and a certain number of those are gonna stick.  Most are not. 

 

Then it falls to the alliances they join to keep their attention by coming up with ways to pull their membership together, keep them active and entertained, and give these new players a reason to keep logging in.

Edited by Banned
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Just on a personal note, the drama I see from half a dozen micros has probably caused me to actively avoid parts of the OWF more than anything else I can remember.

Beyond that, seeing certain people posting in threads immediately pulls me away from them.  I used to enjoy reading the posts of those I disagreed with, and now its just ridiculous.

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Completely disagree. If you got rid of those, the alliances that would be left would all have treaties with one another.

 

People stay in this game for a sense of community. Protectorates and micros with a few active players created solely because someone couldn't get a gov position and instead made an alliance to satisfy their own ego rarely offer a sense of community therefore members become inactive and die.

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People stay in this game for a sense of community. Protectorates and micros with a few active players created solely because someone couldn't get a gov position and instead made an alliance to satisfy their own ego rarely offer a sense of community therefore members become inactive and die.

 

Players leave the game no matter how big the alliance they are in is.

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Players leave the game no matter how big the alliance they are in is.

 

I think his point was, and I somewhat agree, that if you look at some of those micros - where the leader, as he says, couldn't get a position elsewhere and just creates a little !@#$ micro for ego - they pick up potential new players who in a regular alliance could become active and apart of the larger community (both within the alliance and eventually OWF) instead of seeing nothing in the empty little directionless micro and leaving the entire game .. 

 

 

 

* late edit: It's only a small number of players that fit this description; but any number is significant as we the see overall fluctuate ..

Edited by Rayvon
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Yeah, recruiting new players to a micro has upside for the micro, but imo leaves a lot more potential for the new guy to leave entirely.

However, if you present him with some overzealous gameplan (aka lie your ass off about how yo're going places) it would probably work out better

Edited by Neo Uruk
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It all depends on the micro. The definition of micro has changed a lot.

 

I can remember when I joined CN and the first alliance I joined would have these days been considered a micro. It didn't have plans to be small forever though and being a part of that alliance, although it never really passed midsize, gave me a lot of the experiences that made me enjoy CN. I am here today because that alliance gave me a place to learn and grow and be a part of the larger game.

 

Larger alliances isn't the magical answer. Alliances giving their newer members a chance to be a part of something other than just sitting around and being as mediocre as possible goes a long way towards developing new leadership. The problem isn't the size of the alliances, it's the long decline in quality of the functioning of alliances at every size.

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Bro, you're in TTK. You can't really complain about lack of drama when you're a member of an alliance that doesn't really participate in the creation of it.

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Bro, you're in TTK. You can't really complain about lack of drama when you're a member of an alliance that doesn't really participate in the creation of it.

 

 

This is CN. Doing nothing is the ultimate justification for complaining.

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I think the lack of willingness of many of the larger alliances to go to war unless they have a treaty obligating them to so is a far bigger source of stagnation than anything to do with micros. Micros who are more willing to risk everything they have actually create more chances for big wars to occur, as they can act as the trigger which cause bigger alliances to eventually get involved. 

Edited by Methrage
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It all depends on the micro. The definition of micro has changed a lot.
 
I can remember when I joined CN and the first alliance I joined would have these days been considered a micro. It didn't have plans to be small forever though and being a part of that alliance, although it never really passed midsize, gave me a lot of the experiences that made me enjoy CN. I am here today because that alliance gave me a place to learn and grow and be a part of the larger game.
 
Larger alliances isn't the magical answer. Alliances giving their newer members a chance to be a part of something other than just sitting around and being as mediocre as possible goes a long way towards developing new leadership. The problem isn't the size of the alliances, it's the long decline in quality of the functioning of alliances at every size.

 
Exactly right. I tried to make sure to define my statement around directionless, ego-driven or ignorance-driven1 micros (see: Limited Nexus, LPH, and multitude others on page 3 and 4/etc  .. As opposed to such micros as Kaskus, Javahouse, Order o fthe Black Rose, etc etc whom are quite well for their own activity and establishment ..


1 - ignorance in the literal sense of unknowing (ie. ignorance is bliss) .. They don't realize the depth of the community of the game and only see the surface .. 

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So far I haven't heard anything that we didn't say in 2007 when the WUT was ruling the world.  The treaty web is too convuluted so no wars can be fought?  We said that in 07 and there has never been a shortage of wars.  If people want war they will make the moves to make it happen.

 

It is unfortunate that in current planet Bob there are only 1-2 big wars a year because everyone stockpiles huge sums of cash to fight 1 war for 6 months rather than fighting more wars for a shorter period of time.  But when people have the cash to fight they don't want to surrender.

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Exactly right. I tried to make sure to define my statement around directionless, ego-driven or ignorance-driven1 micros (see: Limited Nexus, LPH, and multitude others on page 3 and 4/etc  .. As opposed to such micros as Kaskus, Javahouse, Order o fthe Black Rose, etc etc whom are quite well for their own activity and establishment ..


1 - ignorance in the literal sense of unknowing (ie. ignorance is bliss) .. They don't realize the depth of the community of the game and only see the surface .. 

I think you're just mad because I didn't bend over backward to avoid war when your friend, Kashmir, brought war to my doorstep. Also I think I did very good for a micro.

Edited by Methrage
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I think the lack of willingness of many of the larger alliances to go to war unless they have a treaty obligating them to so is a far bigger source of stagnation than anything to do with micros. Micros who are more willing to risk everything they have actually create more chances for big wars to occur, as they can act as the trigger which cause bigger alliances to eventually get involved. 

This is a great point. Because if a large alliance delares war on another large one, you already have a global war. I do not like war, but it may be good for Bob to get big wars every now and then, and it will help keep many players interested.(I said this same thing in my recent blog post)

However, these days, people do not pay attention to micro's as they believe them to be useless. But really, they are the future of cybernations.

Edited by Knights111
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I think his point was, and I somewhat agree, that if you look at some of those micros - where the leader, as he says, couldn't get a position elsewhere and just creates a little !@#$ micro for ego - they pick up potential new players who in a regular alliance could become active and apart of the larger community (both within the alliance and eventually OWF) instead of seeing nothing in the empty little directionless micro and leaving .. 

My own experience...

 

I came here because people were making a fuss about this game "Cybernations" over at Fark.com.  Knowing zero about the game but likely strategy games generally, I played for a month without joining an alliance.  I figured out on my own that being in an alliance was probably a good idea, not because of being raided or threatened with a raid, but because it looked like a big war was going to break out (the war was GW III) and being out in the open didn't seem like a good idea.  I joined a small, neutral alliance by that day's standards (< 100 members), and learned more about the game as I went.  Two months later, I decided to look for new challenges and joined a much larger alliance, which was later sanctioned.

 

If people come to this game with an open mind and don't get repeatedly steamrolled out of the gate, they will tend to stick around, whether they join an IRON, a GPA, a Valhalla, a GOD, or even The International Union of Domination (yes that really is an alliance, don't be a dick and raid them because I mentioned them).  If they get good advice on how to develop their nation, they are even more likely to do so.  That they might have picked the wrong alliance to join initially is far down the list of reasons people quit.

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I think you're just mad because I didn't bend over backward to avoid war when your friend, Kashmir, brought war to my doorstep. Also I think I did very good for micro.

Don't get your panties in a wad. He called me clueless too.
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I think you're just mad because I didn't bend over backward to avoid war when your friend, Kashmir, brought war to my doorstep. Also I think I did very good for micro.

 

Yeah, that's it .. lol .. And it extends to apply to all the rest of them because you made me so mad ...

 

You're confusing a single IC incident with a larger un-related OOC discussion and resorting to a 'no u' in an OOC thread because I mentioned your name among others in IC examples.

 

The point that you missed, is that y'all are flash in the pans. That's your entire purpose. You don't create these alliances with aspirations of becoming something bigger. You want to do what you want to do, and you recruit new nations and do nothing with them. You have four other nations in Limited Nexus, and with the 5 of you you don't even have a complete ring together. You've left those guys hanging. There's nothing for tech deals set up, the only aid transfers on your AA are for your own nation. And it looks like one of your guys got raided, have you lifted a finger yet? Or even an eyebrow? You have no forward motion in Limited Nexus. You are directionless. And you're not the only one as I also said and pointed to in the link.

 

Knights111 and his umpteen failures to kick off an alliance, and somehow managed to draw a couple brand new nations in one or two of those ... What happened to those nations? Where was any establishment for them? What was done to involve any of these players in the community?

 

Do you understand what I'm saying yet? Or do you still think you 'did very good for a micro'?

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If they get good advice on how to develop their nation, they are even more likely to do so.  That they might have picked the wrong alliance to join initially is far down the list of reasons people quit.


Exactly - and that's something that is missing from the larger majority of the micro's being exampled .. As I said too in my late edit, in agreement with you, that that is also just a small number - but over time that small number adds up (consider the thought of "nickle and diming yourself out of savings") ..
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First, look to the left and check out my huge number of posts on this forum. 

 

 

Pretty impressive isn't it? Now, I have been in this game since 2006, and that's all I've managed to accumulate. I have been really active for most of my time in the game but if you aren't in AZTEC, an old member of GOLD, or maybe an old member of FAN you wouldn't recognize any of the names I have used over the years. I am far more interested in the internal workings of an alliance and getting that alliance to perform as well as possible than I am with the global politics of CN. So I can't say that the current state of the game is more or less conducive to generating new members or retaining players that we have. 

 

In the end I don't think alliances choosing sides would help anything. I don't think more, or less, wars would help anything. In honesty this game has gone downhill due to the attitudes of those of us playing it. When you say things about the game dying, that you cannot wait for it to go away, etc. that mindset rubs off. I know it makes you fit in the cool-kid clique here on the OWF to say those things, but it has an impact on the people that are less active. They see the more active and outgoing members of their alliance saying things like that and it starts to sink in. However, unlike the people here, when they start thinking that they follow through on it. Obviously if all the people here actually hated it as much as they claim they'd stop posting here and would let their accounts go inactive. 

 

The only other thing I see as an issue is the huge disparity between old nations and new. When I first came to this game the world was recovering from the first Great War. As a minnow in the large ocean of Bob I went from new player to nuclear capable (and nuke rogue for that matter) by the time GW2 came about... and remember that was before the Manhattan Project, you had to grow your nation to the top of the game to buy nukes. Today, there's simply no way that a new nation can do that. If you look at the 3.00 NS you have as a brand new player there is simply no way you're going to reach the 736,303.143 that ThePromisedLand has today. Makes it a little less interesting when you know there's no hope of reaching those levels. So, until we find a way to force the top down or to rapidly increase the growth of the bottom and middle tiers I see more players slipping into the abyss. 

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Yeah, that's it .. lol .. And it extends to apply to all the rest of them because you made me so mad ...

 

You're confusing a single IC incident with a larger un-related OOC discussion and resorting to a 'no u' in an OOC thread because I mentioned your name among others in IC examples.

 

The point that you missed, is that y'all are flash in the pans. That's your entire purpose. You don't create these alliances with aspirations of becoming something bigger. You want to do what you want to do, and you recruit new nations and do nothing with them. You have four other nations in Limited Nexus, and with the 5 of you you don't even have a complete ring together. You've left those guys hanging. There's nothing for tech deals set up, the only aid transfers on your AA are for your own nation. And it looks like one of your guys got raided, have you lifted a finger yet? Or even an eyebrow? You have no forward motion in Limited Nexus. You are directionless. And you're not the only one as I also said and pointed to in the link.

 

Knights111 and his umpteen failures to kick off an alliance, and somehow managed to draw a couple brand new nations in one or two of those ... What happened to those nations? Where was any establishment for them? What was done to involve any of these players in the community?

 

Do you understand what I'm saying yet? Or do you still think you 'did very good for a micro'?

I'm in the process of getting one of them into a trade circle before I instruct him to use any of his funds (The one who joined while the Kashmir War was ongoing), so he just needs to send the trades to the designated nations when he has time. I've contacted Stonewall though OOC means to let him know the war is over and there will be rebuild aid for him when he returns to his nation. Paul still has the aid I sent him before the war with Kashmir, so he has funds for when he comes out of peace mode. As there was never a need for him to come out and I left Stonewall in charge of that. The nations who have been inactive since pre-war, there isn't much to be done about them.

 

However with the war, we have grown in nations and even when up against an alliance much bigger, I managed to achieve the peace I wanted. So I think I did very good for a micro.

 

Before bringing Stonewall and Paul in, even I didn't really consider Limitless Nexus an alliance myself. However saying I've only brought aid to myself is ridiculous. The only nation I got any kind of aid sent to from outside sources during the war was aid sent to Stonewall. Nicholai has gotten aid now that the war is over.

 

Edit: It was Stonewall who brought Knights111 in, but I sent Stonewall, Paul and Knights111 aid upon joining. Even if sending Knights111 aid turned out to be a bad idea. Also Knights111 has never been an alliance and didn't bring anyone with him. It is kind of ironic Knights111 was the first and only surrender on both sides of the war, so you were right about him and I've admitted as such. First he surrendered without firing a shot to Kashmir, then he tried bandwaggoning in on Kashmir's side by hitting an inactive nation and surrendered shortly after. So if me deciding to give Knights111 a chance after Stonewall recruited him is why you seem so angry all the time, give it up already. Time to move on.

Edited by Methrage
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Micros are a thing that if the game didn't have them, CN would be boring. Imagine if only the current top 50 or 60 alliances were the only alliances in existence, the game would look boring and lose a lot of smaller conflicts that wouldn't happen without micros. Now, I started out in a "micro" (at the time when I joined, It had about 3.62 score) and I liked it. I liked it because there were (were being the keyword) people in my alliance who helped me to understand and play the game. I get the feeling that if I would have picked any of the other alliances that I got messages from on my first day, (all three of those alliances being sanctioned, GPA, NG, and TOP) I don't think I would have learned as much about CN as I did. While in the "micro" I felt like I was doing important things like recruiting people, setting up Trade Circles, making lists of tech sellers, I felt like I was being useful. The micro that I was in went from 3.62 Score to 6.37 score in 4 months, now that may not be a lot, but when I saw where we came from, to where we were now, I was able to say, "Wow, I helped to do that" and it was a good feeling. This is not something that a new player in NG or TOP or GPA, will probably ever be able to fell because a new player will probably never be able to do a wide assortment of jobs and tasks in a bigger alliance, most likely, they learn how to play the game and hardly ever get on their alliance's forums or do anything of the sort. I may have left that "micro", but I learned a lot about CN in that micro, and I do not regret any of my actions, leaving that micro, or while inside it.

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The point that you missed, is that y'all are flash in the pans. That's your entire purpose. You don't create these alliances with aspirations of becoming something bigger. You want to do what you want to do, and you recruit new nations and do nothing with them. You have four other nations in Limited Nexus, and with the 5 of you you don't even have a complete ring together. You've left those guys hanging. There's nothing for tech deals set up, the only aid transfers on your AA are for your own nation. And it looks like one of your guys got raided, have you lifted a finger yet? Or even an eyebrow? You have no forward motion in Limited Nexus. You are directionless. And you're not the only one as I also said and pointed to in the link.

I know this is a generalization, but LPH isn't lifting a finger to recruit until we poach everything ever first
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We don't send out recruitment messages Sax so I don't know what you're talking about. Also I echo the sentiment that micros pull away active people from the overall game and that micros more often than not are more of a liability than an asset. This is because, typically, micros:

 

-Are desperate for attention/relevance, so jump into conflicts to try and make them escalate so they can say "Yeah man I started a global war". 

-Don't taking responsibility for their actions (look at these ridiculous limitless nexus and RIOT threads of late to see a pristine example of not taking responsibility) and blame everyone but themselves for the situation they're in.

-Don't care about the consequences of their actions, because big daddy protector will bail them out if things get hairy. Or better yet, the micro will just wield the name of their protector to scare people into action/inaction without letting their protectors know the situation into which they were prepared to throw them. With less to lose the micro will often make poorly thought out or blatantly idiotic moves just to alleviate boredom and not care what happens as a result.

 

These are generalizations and don't apply to every micro out there, and in fact there are plenty of well run, competent micros around today. But in general I've found the above to apply in some capacity to a majority of them, so micros aren't the answer in my opinion. 

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- words-

So if me deciding to give Knights111 a chance after Stonewall recruited him is why you seem so angry all the time, give it up already. Time to move on.


Dude - I made a passing reference to you among multitudes of alliances lol .. It wasn't personal or in-character, loosen the wad .. This is the OOC discussion ..
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