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Upcoming Wonders Discussion


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Poll: What wonders would you like to see added?

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#1 admin

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 09:06 PM

Well the improvements discussion thread produced some good results. I'd like to get some feedback on the following wonders.

 

EMP Capable Nukes - $500,000,000 - Provides attackers with 8,000 or more technology the option to launch a targeted EMP nuclear attack. When launched, the base damage of the nuke is changed from 150 infra and 50 tech to 100 infra and 100 tech. A standard nuclear attack will remain an option. See this topic for discussion.

Advanced Guided Missiles$300,000,000 - Reduces the effects of defender’s SDI and IMS wonders by 50%. Requires maintaining 8,000 or more technology to function.

Black Market - $300,000,000 - Allows nations to buy 3 nukes per day but doesn't increase the total amount of nukes a nation can have. Cannot own if Central Intelligence Agency is owned. (This one was previously discussed)

 

Political Lobbyists - $50,000,000 - Your vote counts as a three votes in your team's senate. Must be re-bought every time you switch teams.

 

National Cemetery - $150,000,000 - Requires 10 Million War Dead & National War Memorial. Due to your nation's hardened resolve in times of war, this wonder reduces the level of War Weariness within your nation by +0.5 happiness per day while at war. Provides +1 Happiness per 5,000,000 war dead. (This one was previously discussed)

 

Forced Labor - $40,000,000 The Forced Labor system incorporates labor camps into the mainstream economic infrastructure. Gives +1 happiness per labor camp, decreases initial infrastructure cost -2% and decreases infrastructure upkeep costs -2%. (This one was previously discussed)



#2 Neo Uruk

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 09:11 PM

How much would the AGM wonder cost?

#3 Mogar

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 09:12 PM

do you need a WRC for the blackmarket, or no?



#4 admin

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 09:12 PM

How much would the AGM wonder cost?

$300,000,000. Open to suggestions.



#5 Auctor

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 09:13 PM

Advanced Guided Missiles – $300,000,000 - Reduces the effects of defender’s SDI and IMS wonders by 50%. Requires maintaining 8,000 or more technology to function.

Black Market - $300,000,000 - Allows nations to buy 3 nukes per day but doesn't increase the total amount of nukes a nation can have. Cannot own if Central Intelligence Agency is owned. (This one was previously discussed)


These two should be mutually exclusive, and leave CIA out of it imo.

#6 commanderragnar

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 09:17 PM

$300,000,000. Open to suggestions.

Edit: Bunged up read wrong thing.


Edited by commanderragnar, 28 May 2014 - 09:17 PM.


#7 hartfw

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 09:23 PM

Forced Labor camp removes LC swapping.  Feels like its aimed to make the game as lazy as possible which I don;t think is a good goal, or one that will end well.

 

Advanced Guided Missiles -- 50% reduction in SDI is a big increase in nukes getting through.  A 33% reduction would be well worth buying. 

 

Black Market -- Agreed with above the no CIA requirement is weird, I mean its not like CIA';s and black markets are in any way mutually exclusive.

 

Probably separately, but definitely combined this will eliminate the concept of 3 on 1's and holding someone at 0 nukes.

 

National Cemetary -- Instead of making this +1 Happiness per 5,000,000 war dead I would change it to +.2% per 1million (same numbers but so you get the increment on the 1m), and put an explicit cap on this one.  I.e.  Capped at +6 happiness with 30m.  I would also lower the casualties to buy and price, encouraging more people to want casualties is better then having a prize for fewer.



#8 hartfw

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 09:28 PM

Skipped lobbyist.  Kinda hard to decide what I think about it until we have team events or a revamped senate as discussed (missing link).

 

Depending on how the senate shakes out, I could see making it so you could "buy" 2 more votes per cycle, but in addition to paying for the wonder you need to pay money each time you use it to get those extra votes.



#9 Gopherbashi

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 10:24 PM

Well the improvements discussion thread produced some good results. I'd like to get some feedback on the following wonders.

 

EMP Capable Nukes - $500,000,000 - Provides attackers with 8,000 or more technology the option to launch a targeted EMP nuclear attack. When launched, the base damage of the nuke is changed from 150 infra and 50 tech to 100 infra and 100 tech. A standard nuclear attack will remain an option. See this topic for discussion.

Advanced Guided Missiles$300,000,000 - Reduces the effects of defender’s SDI and IMS wonders by 50%. Requires maintaining 8,000 or more technology to function.

Black Market - $300,000,000 - Allows nations to buy 3 nukes per day but doesn't increase the total amount of nukes a nation can have. Cannot own if Central Intelligence Agency is owned. (This one was previously discussed)

 

Political Lobbyists - $50,000,000 - Your vote counts as a three votes in your team's senate. Must be re-bought every time you switch teams.

 

National Cemetery - $150,000,000 - Requires 10 Million War Dead & National War Memorial. Due to your nation's hardened resolve in times of war, this wonder reduces the level of War Weariness within your nation by +0.5 happiness per day while at war. Provides +1 Happiness per 5,000,000 war dead. (This one was previously discussed)

 

Forced Labor - $40,000,000 The Forced Labor system incorporates labor camps into the mainstream economic infrastructure. Gives +1 happiness per labor camp, decreases initial infrastructure cost -2% and decreases infrastructure upkeep costs -2%. (This one was previously discussed)

 

EMP - I'm wondering if this cost should scale with tech, as the damage caused will scale with tech (or does it just cause 50 more tech damage, with the tech modifier remaining the same?)

 

AGM - Should this read as "effectiveness" of SDI & IMS?  12am brain tells me that they reduce chance of hitting, not the amount of damage.

 

BM - Does this mean an additional 3 nukes per day, or an additional 1 nuke if the WRC is also owned (for a total of 3?)

 

Political Lobbyists - I feel that there should be an ongoing fee for this (I doubt many lobbyists would give lifetime service for an upfront fee).  Perhaps the option to use political lobbyists everytime you vote (in exchange for a substantial fee, of course).

 

NC - Holy god, that's one hell of a big cemetery.

 

FL - I almost feel that this should have a negative happiness bonus in exchange for the infra perks (people are mad that labour camps are so prevalent).  Make nations decide whether they want to make the tradeoff between happiness and infra savings.



#10 milkmanrox100

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 11:03 PM

make AGM 100% reduction.  It's 3x the cost of a manhattan project!!



#11 Darklink7748

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 11:43 PM

EMP: I'd tone back the overall cost and lower the tech level required for use. 300m seems more reasonable, as does 5k tech. Either that or make the cost scale with tech like another user suggested. I do think it should be somewhat of an investment, but I would argue that 500m is a bit much for a wonder that adds more variety to war.

 

AGM: I'd cut the price in half and lower the tech prerequisite to 5k, but also make the reduction 25% instead of 50%. Even with the reduction in power this wonder would be extremely strong.

 

BM: What do you think about activating/deactivating the wonders instead of making it so one has to choose one or the other? I understand why you don't want a CIA active alongside this wonder, but given the mechanics of how wonders are purchased, it would seem less than ideal to make someone have to get rid of something they spent both money and time in purchasing. Other then that this seems good.

 

PL: Looks fun, and I could see it being quite powerful if the Senate gets more passive perks.

 

NC: As someone with over 10 million casualties I'm somewhat biased, but I like this one as well. I agree with the other suggestion about making it scale per million deaths rather than per five million, if only to make it beneficial at all levels.

 

FL: I like it. Honestly, who cares about labor camp swapping as a mechanic? Deleting and rebuying LC's every time you want to collect is more a hassle than anything, and this seems like a wonder that would benefit everyone equally. No issues here whatsoever.



#12 King Brandon

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 12:18 AM

Black market would be better if it didn't have the CIA stipulation on it, Spy attacks are already pretty hard to get through even with CIA, so there isn't really a good trade off occurring rather just a hassle. War memorial is great though,  and actually feels rewarding since the requirement is pretty high, I wouldn't mind seeing it buffed. Since it actually requires people to actually participate in order to get it. Really need more things like this!


Edited by King Brandon, 29 May 2014 - 12:20 AM.


#13 Lord of Darkness

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 01:12 AM

EMP Capable Nukes - Its price should scale off the amount of tech someone has. Replacing the normal nukes with EMP nukes would be better than keeping both.

Advanced Guided Missiles - 50% sounds a bit much, maybe give it a 10-25% reduction. Requiring Superior Logistics Support as a prerequisite and/or making it also reduce the effectiveness of ones own SDI/IMS could be other interesting directions to take. If it is made to reduce ones own missile defenses, cut the tech requirement down a little.

Black Market - The no CIA requirement is a bit weird for it. Should have some sort of prerequisite (WRC? Tech?) and drop happiness by 3-5 points.

Political Lobbyists - what about something similar to this?

Political Lobbyists - $75,000,000 - Your vote counts as a two votes in your team's senate. Doubles the happiness bonus for trading on the same team. Must be re-bought every time you switch teams.


National Cemetery - Wonders for 50k casualties and then 10 million is a very large jump. It should probably increase happiness every 1 million casualties up until a certain point and start lower, maybe around 1 or 2 million casualties, with a cheaper price.

Forced Labor - Instead of negating LC swaps why not have it increase the limit of LCs and bump the wonders price up? Possibly also have Interstate System be a prerequisite. Dropping happiness or income slightly would be good too.

#14 Vespassianus

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 01:45 AM

EMP: good idea, suggestion looks fine, maybe the cost could be lowered to 300 or 400 million

 

AGM: this could be a serious gamechanger in warfare. I think the 50% reduction is too much, it should be about 20-30% totally.  The tech requirement to maintain is a good idea, but it could be higher, like 10k tech.

 

Black Market: the "this or the cia" would really make people think, also it would be a help to outnumbered nations.

 

PL: it could bring a new aspect to color politics, i support it.

 

National Cemetery: looks good to me, 10 mil dead dudes don't come easy. but the cost is a bit high compared to the benefits (or maybe i'm just greedy :D ).  Also the war weariness stuff isn't really relevant, none really cares about that while at war. Also i think this wonder would make people to harvest casualities, so before implementing it there should be an announcement about how will mods handle people making ground attacks only to get casualities.

 

Forced labor: i like the idea of getting rid of labor camp swap, but i think 1% reduction for infra cost and upkeep would be enough as other benefits.

 

Also the first 3 wonders have only offensive/damage increase attributes, what about 1-2 defensive wonders too?



#15 Mogar

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 02:35 AM

Black Market: the "this or the cia" would really make people think, also it would be a help to outnumbered nations.

I completely disagree this would make people think, no question i would buy the black market, as would most who prefer asymmetrical warfare.



#16 Stewie

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 02:37 AM

CIA is too powerful to ever get rid of. Especially at higher tech levels I doubt anyone would ever buy Black Market.


I like the rest of them, though would EMP permanently be in force, or would you get to choose whether you wanted to use EMP Nukes or bog standard nukes?

#17 Mogar

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 02:59 AM

A standard nuclear attack will remain an option.



#18 Krzyzewskiville

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 05:10 AM

If you have the no CIA requirement for the Black Market, nobody is going to get it. However, I like that. Being able to buy 3 nukes a day is a massive, ridiculous advantage, and if you don't limit the ability to get it/use it, then it's just going to make it even harder for non-nuke capable nations who end up having to fight teched out/wondered out nations in long alliance wars.

Trading the ability to defend your nukes from being spied away for the ability to buy more every day seems totally fair to me.

Edited by Krzyzewskiville, 29 May 2014 - 05:11 AM.


#19 Operative

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 06:10 AM

*I will caveat my statements with the fact that I am new*

 

I see in the wonder list that there is a National Research Lab.  How about incorporating research areas that lead to the building of these "end game" types of wonders?  While it may prolong the building of them I think it may add a bit more to the game.  Possible incorporation:

 

Allow nations to purchase scientist.  Scientist would function much like spies in regards to purchasing however, their sole purpose would be to work within the research lab and study new areas of focus.  More scientist = less research time.

 

Establish areas of study.  The timelines would need to be reasonable of course.  An area for example would be EMP technology.  Studying this area would lead to a nation being able to develop EMP nukes.  (areas of study could be much broader and could lead to multiple options).

 

I think by doing this it incorporates the National Research Lab much more, as it would be a prerequisite for the scientist.  Furthermore, this alteration could lead to nations being able to specialize in certain areas.  Lastly, while it would extend the wonder purchases, and could open up top tier nation capabilities if utilized properly.


Edited by Operative, 29 May 2014 - 06:14 AM.


#20 eviljak

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 09:29 AM

Cut the AGM from %50 to %30 and u have a winner.

Also there should be a defensive wonder to Counter the AGM in a big way...and If u own one...u cannot own the other. Example: Satellite Defensive Systems

$200,000,000
Reduces effectiveness of AGM by %25 and decreases damage done by nuclear weapons by %5. Requires 5,000 or more tech.

Edited by eviljak, 29 May 2014 - 09:36 AM.





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