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New concept: crime rate

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#181 eviljak

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 06:25 PM

Bad for everyone in my alliance as well....pretty ridiculous actually.

#182 admin

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 08:27 AM

Bad for everyone in my alliance as well....pretty ridiculous actually.

How do you recommend that they be adjusted to be appealing to more players without making them over powerful?



#183 eviljak

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 08:39 AM

Just remove the environment penalty, and everything else will work itself out. Perhaps even decrease the crime prevention score for the Red Light District further, if ur worried about OP....but the environment penalty is too much. Casinos, just remove the environment penalty and thats it in my opinion.

Edited by eviljak, 22 June 2014 - 08:43 AM.


#184 hartfw

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 10:25 AM

Really depends what you want from these 2.  As is they benefit no large nations which isn't really an issue if crime is a nerf on large nations -- which it is.

So, assuming the goal is to make it so smaller nations engage in prostitution and gambling...

 

Red Light district: As mentioned drop the enviro, keep crime rate at -50.  For small nations, this is much cheaper gain from dropping the crime index then gov option questions (so it is instantly attractive but only for those nations with slots). For nations above 200k pop, these will still be hard to take as crime when you lose pop hurts bad.  However, this just makes all the gov questions secondary, and loses the interesting dynamic element of the improvement.

 

The alternative is to up the happiness, and keep the interesting 3 way trade off with  environment, i.e.  1.5 happiness, -.5 environment, - 50 crime.  I like that better as its complicated, but can see why some would prefer the simpler. Actually, 1.5 happiness, -.5 environment and -25 crime. That makes it worth considering, but doesn't just make it a straight money gain.

 

Casinos:

A tradeoff of static happiness for a percentage of income is great for a certain range of nations.  The problem is they can already tradeoff crime for happiness, without the income loss.  I would tweak this down to -25 crime (or 20) from 50, and it suddenly becomes very interesting in certain tiers while still not worth it for others.


Edited by hartfw, 22 June 2014 - 10:26 AM.


#185 eviljak

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 12:57 PM

Cut the enviro decrease in half for the casinos and perhaps its more appealing.

Edited by eviljak, 22 June 2014 - 12:57 PM.


#186 admin

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 10:23 AM

Really depends what you want from these 2.  As is they benefit no large nations which isn't really an issue if crime is a nerf on large nations -- which it is.

So, assuming the goal is to make it so smaller nations engage in prostitution and gambling...

 

Red Light district: As mentioned drop the enviro, keep crime rate at -50.  For small nations, this is much cheaper gain from dropping the crime index then gov option questions (so it is instantly attractive but only for those nations with slots). For nations above 200k pop, these will still be hard to take as crime when you lose pop hurts bad.  However, this just makes all the gov questions secondary, and loses the interesting dynamic element of the improvement.

 

The alternative is to up the happiness, and keep the interesting 3 way trade off with  environment, i.e.  1.5 happiness, -.5 environment, - 50 crime.  I like that better as its complicated, but can see why some would prefer the simpler. Actually, 1.5 happiness, -.5 environment and -25 crime. That makes it worth considering, but doesn't just make it a straight money gain.

 

Casinos:

A tradeoff of static happiness for a percentage of income is great for a certain range of nations.  The problem is they can already tradeoff crime for happiness, without the income loss.  I would tweak this down to -25 crime (or 20) from 50, and it suddenly becomes very interesting in certain tiers while still not worth it for others.

I went with a simple halving of the crime prevention penalty to both improvements for now. More tweaking can be done if necessary.



#187 im317

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 11:33 AM

well Casinos theoretically are worth it to smaller nations i question if there a practical choice. the issue is the limited number of improvement slots, so well there a net gain there are probably more then a half dozen unique other improvements that those small nations dont already have that are a better gain.

 

also the purchase cost of $100,000 might be to high for the range of nation in which its worth the trade off of % income for a happiness gain. especially since its contending with Stadiums and Police Headquarters. the Police Headquarters is only $75,000 and well the Stadium is slightly more expensive at $110,000 it gives +3 happiness with no negative effect.

 

the question is after a nation is big enough to have 5 stadiums and 5 police headquarters will they still be in the range where a happiness bonus is worth more then a income % loss? as it stands now i would at least cut the purchase price to $50,000 although i think the real winner would be to reduce the income % to .75% or maybe .5%


Edited by im317, 24 June 2014 - 11:41 AM.


#188 Ogaden

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:36 PM

Isn't the crime from casinos a big enough penalty already? why the extra penalty to income?

#189 o ya baby

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 11:55 PM

Still terrible for me.  Can't see these ever being useful to any remotely larger nation with these penalties in place.



#190 David Stilicho

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 04:46 AM

Neither the Casino nor the Red Light District will be positive for larger nations even discounting the Crime Protection Score penalty. They will be positive for smaller nations but never used due to the fact that there are other, better improvements that they could be buying with their slots. By the time a nation is large enough to have the slots to buy Casinos or Red Light Districts, they will no longer be worthwhile.

 

Discounting Crime Protection Score:

 

The Casino will never be worthwhile for any nation with a population income above 300. 1.5 happiness = 3 income, and 1% income = 3 income. No nation below 300 income should bother to buy them because they're only a good improvement when you are significantly below 300 income, and at that point you should be buying Banks and Stadiums which have much greater benefits. I cannot imagine a situation in which anyone should ever hold one or more Casinos.

 

The Red Light District is a little more complicated to discuss because of how complicated the effects of environment are. If someone with a smaller nation could fill out http://cybernations....m/tools/popcalc that could be helpful to see what the exact effects of -0.5 environment are. Even so, the overall benefit of the RLD (still discounting the effect of the lost CPS), will never be large, and for many nations will be negative, and as such I imagine that small nations will not be interested due to a higher return from other improvements, and that large nations will not be interested due to the environment penalty outweighing the happiness gain. That said, there is one situation in which it would be worthwhile to hold 1 RLD, which is when your environment is at GRL+1.5 or GRL+0.5. In such a situation it could be worth buying an RLD (and in the case of GRL+1.5, an extra Border Wall), provided that the benefit was not outweighed by the lost CPS.

 

I feel that trade-offs in improvements are a great idea, and would add a lot to the game, but at the moment neither the Casino nor the Red Light District offer a genuine trade-off as their benefits are simply too small in relation to their costs.



#191 eviljak

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 05:25 PM

Drop the penalties beyond the negative crime rate and its good.

#192 Fistandantilus

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 03:55 AM

Maybe just get rid of all penalties, make them mutually exclusive, and make one just give happiness, and the other +Income %. We'll have a meaningful choice to make based on our nation's current output. I;d also suggest making the numbers on the improvements decent, to give at least a semi noticeable gain, in order to make them meaningful.

 

To be honest, I dont like how crime plays out right now. I think if there where a bunch of mutually exclusive improvements to choose from, that do different things, such as +Crimerate, to -crimerate and + income, and combinations of the 2, would be something far more interesting. Give us a bunch of improvements to mix and match to form a build that is good for our nation.

 

It seems Admin is too worried about making new good income boosts, and in doing so, is releasing content that just is not relevant(And that in no way augments our game experience). The game started out good for me, with all these impactful(Only word I could coin to accurately describe my feeling) improvements to buy. Then it came to impactful wonders. And then it just stopped, the moon wonders, with their incredibly high price-tag to function as a 6th stadium had little appeal to me, and sense then, nothing meaningful has come =/.

 

I think the future of the game lies in a more complicated game, with more meaningful choices. One that allows people to have control over many aspects of their nation building. I think we need more things to build, and that take time to build as well. Just some thoughts.



#193 Subtleknifewielder

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 04:58 AM

Hmmm...I know I'm not the only one, especially after reviewing the first couple of pages of the thread...but why do Police headquarters not have any kind of effect on the crime rate? I mean, heck, even corrupt police in the real world have at least SOME effect on the rate of crime in a place, even if it is small.



#194 eviljak

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 07:39 PM

Yes police headquarters should help crime rate without losing its happiness bonus.

#195 Syracuse

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 08:02 PM

It already does.

Take a look at the information index under CPS.





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