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New concept: crime rate

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#1 Lysergix

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:31 AM

I think it would be a good idea to add a crime rate to the game as a means of judging rulers' effectiveness.

 

Have it on a scale of 0 - 6, the lower the better.  High crime rates increase infrastructure upkeep and reduce happiness.

 

0 (negligible crime rate): -3% Infrastructure upkeep cost, +3 happiness (score 500+)

1 (very low crime rate): -2% Infrastructure upkeep cost, +2 happiness (score 420 - 500)

2 (low crime rate): -1% Infrastructure upkeep cost, +1 happiness (score 340 - 420)

3 (moderate crime rate): -1 happiness (score 260 - 340)

4 (high crime rate): +1% Infrastructure upkeep cost, -1 happiness (score 180 - 260)

5 (very high crime rate): +2% Infrastructure upkeep cost, -2 happiness (score 100 - 180)

6 (detroit crime rate) +3% Infrastructure upkeep cost, - 3 happiness (score under 100)

 

And to determine what the score of the country is, use this equasion:

 

Score = (Literacy Rate x 80) + (((Police Headquarters x 1) + (Schools x 3) + (Universities x 10)) x Tax Rate  x 12)  + X + (Infrastructure / 100)

 

Where X = Government Type Scale

Anarchy = 0

Revolutionary = 10

Capitalism = 50

Federal = 60

Republic = 70

Monarchy = 80

Communist = 120

Dictatorship = 150

Totalitarian = 180

 

And Percentages are presented as decimals (80% = 0.8)

 

...

 

so for me...

 

I have a 30% tax rate, 16,880 infrastructure, 100% literacy, 5 police headquarters, 5 schools, 2 universities, 30% tax rate, and a capitalist government, so my score would be like this:

 

Score = (Literacy Rate x 80) + (((Police Headquarters x 1) + (Schools x 3) + (Universities x 10)) x Tax Rate  x 12)  + X + (Infrastructure / 100)

Score = (1 x 80) + (( 5 + 15 + 20) x 0.3  x 12)  + X + (Infrastructure / 10) = 80 + 144 + 50 + 168.8 = 442.8

 

I would have a Crime Rate of 1.

 

I think it would add an interesting element to the game, and the Crime Rate would be based on factors that play a role in the real world - countries with low literacy rates tend to have higher crime rates, as do less developed countries (think of like Venezuela or Zimbabwe).  However, well developed countries with plenty of schools tend to have high crime rates when they don't invest enough money into their schools (Russia, USA), and countries with iron fisted dictators tend to have less crime (North Korea), and of course, when a country is in transition or anarchy, they have alot more crime (Afghanistan).


Edited by Lysergix, 02 March 2014 - 08:20 AM.


#2 Commander shepard

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:47 AM

I think we have police stations too, odd you didn't include them. 



#3 Lysergix

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:54 AM

I think we have police stations too, odd you didn't include them. 

 

lol forgot about them... either way, the police don't seem to deter crime, at least not much, they just catch the criminals after the crime has been committed, though it could be argued that most criminals commit many crimes between the one that gets them wanted and the time they get arrested, and if they weren't arrested, they'd continue the crime spree.  maybe i'll rewrite it to include police stations :)



#4 Caladin

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:54 AM

The modifiers are based per unit of infrastructure?

So my nation, with it's 15,000 infrastructure, could receive +45,000 happiness and -$45,000, resulting in each citizen increasing their daily income by $45,000?
Sounds like I'll be making a lot of money; one could even say too much.

 

Also, why does crime increase the amount of money each infrastructure gives? It make no sense and it is redundant given that each point of happiness is equal to $2



#5 Joel James

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 08:05 AM

Maybe he meant -3% for the cost or upkeep of infrastructure, and +3 happiness overall. It seems like a good idea, if that is what he meant. 



#6 Lysergix

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 08:16 AM

Maybe he meant -3% for the cost or upkeep of infrastructure, and +3 happiness overall. It seems like a good idea, if that is what he meant. 

exactly (infrastructure upkeep and overall happiness), i worded it badly... sorry, slapped it together fairly quickly.  Fixed it and added policeheadquarters into the equasion


Edited by Lysergix, 02 March 2014 - 08:21 AM.


#7 Methrage

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 02:50 PM

More authoritarian governments don't mean there is less crime, there is actually more crime because more types of behavior is criminalized. If they make offenders disappear never to be heard from again, they might be able to create an illusion of less crime to the public since nobody knows the extent of it or can talk about it. However under such systems happiness would be less, so your scoring system for governments makes no sense.



#8 Caladin

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:05 PM

exactly (infrastructure upkeep and overall happiness), i worded it badly... sorry, slapped it together fairly quickly.  Fixed it and added policeheadquarters into the equasion

 

So each of my citizens would earn an extra $90,000 per day before tax?

Still seeing issues here...



#9 gatorback05

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:58 PM

 

So each of my citizens would earn an extra $90,000 per day before tax?

Still seeing issues here...

 

It would be close to an extra 6.00 income added on if you have 0 crime rate for your total populations income per day.  Not sure how you are coming up with 90k PER CITIZEN.  I think he is saying that the +happiness is overall and would be added to your overall happiness of your country.  



#10 Caladin

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:29 AM

 

It would be close to an extra 6.00 income added on if you have 0 crime rate for your total populations income per day.  Not sure how you are coming up with 90k PER CITIZEN.  I think he is saying that the +happiness is overall and would be added to your overall happiness of your country.  

 

He had written at some point that being at 0 crime rate increased your happiness by 3 points per unit of infrastructure. Seems that he's edited it now.



#11 Fistandantilus

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:51 AM

I like it, im all for adding another dimension into the game!



#12 Auctor

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:57 AM

Seems like this gives smaller nations a disadvantage?

#13 Caladin

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:58 AM

If you throw the more popular governments further down the list (ie, towards zero) (yes, unrealistic, but it's a game - who cares) you could make choosing a government more complicated than just between monarchy and democracy

 

However, the values would need to be reduced, or at least to positive ones; we already make enough cash, no need to increase it too much.


Edited by Caladin, 03 March 2014 - 04:59 AM.


#14 Lysergix

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 08:32 AM

 

So each of my citizens would earn an extra $90,000 per day before tax?

Still seeing issues here...

 

it's all overall.  overall income.  overall happiness.  you're overthinking it, my friend :)

 

 

If you throw the more popular governments further down the list (ie, towards zero) (yes, unrealistic, but it's a game - who cares) you could make choosing a government more complicated than just between monarchy and democracy

 

However, the values would need to be reduced, or at least to positive ones; we already make enough cash, no need to increase it too much.

 

 

The higher your score, the lower your crime rate.  The popular ones (democracy, capitalism etc etc) add less to your score than dictatorship or totalitarian.

 

 

More authoritarian governments don't mean there is less crime, there is actually more crime because more types of behavior is criminalized. If they make offenders disappear never to be heard from again, they might be able to create an illusion of less crime to the public since nobody knows the extent of it or can talk about it. However under such systems happiness would be less, so your scoring system for governments makes no sense.

 

It's true that you can go to prison for more things in totalitarian states, but in those places, you are also less likely to commit a crime out of fear of the oppressive government and police.  I feel alot more comfortable shoplifting in Sweden than I do in North Korea.  Sweden gives you a fine and community service.  North Korea hives you a pick axe and throws you in a labor camp for the next 6 years with weekly beatings, no toothbrush, dogs barking all the time and manrape. 

 

Maybe more theory than practice?  I don't know for sure, never been to North Korea, but I think that the hard punishments handed out by totalitarian governments would certainly deter most crimes (crimes of passion and politics excluded).



#15 Methrage

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 09:39 AM

 

it's all overall.  overall income.  overall happiness.  you're overthinking it, my friend :)

 

 

 

 

The higher your score, the lower your crime rate.  The popular ones (democracy, capitalism etc etc) add less to your score than dictatorship or totalitarian.

 

 

 

It's true that you can go to prison for more things in totalitarian states, but in those places, you are also less likely to commit a crime out of fear of the oppressive government and police.  I feel alot more comfortable shoplifting in Sweden than I do in North Korea.  Sweden gives you a fine and community service.  North Korea hives you a pick axe and throws you in a labor camp for the next 6 years with weekly beatings, no toothbrush, dogs barking all the time and manrape. 

 

Maybe more theory than practice?  I don't know for sure, never been to North Korea, but I think that the hard punishments handed out by totalitarian governments would certainly deter most crimes (crimes of passion and politics excluded).

Also you need to consider the impact their sentence has on the community. If someone who commits a crime is executed and their entire families, sure that might deter some resistance since people worry about the wellbeing of their family and know their actions can hurt them. However for each crime committed there is a much more detrimental effect to the community when so many workers and members of the community go missing. If is fined for a victimless crime there is a very small cost to the community compared to keeping that person in prison for the rest of their lives for example.


Edited by Methrage, 03 March 2014 - 09:44 AM.


#16 Hereno

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 10:03 AM

Methrage is right about the real-world application, and Caladin/Auctor are right about the mechanics. It's a nice thought, but it just seems like another way for upper tier nations to make even more money. This doesn't actually fix any problems.

#17 Lysergix

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 07:23 AM

I didn't know there were problems with the game that needed fixing excluding lack of features :)



#18 TwitchHard

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 08:02 AM

What problems are needed to be fixed?  

 

Like in the real world the rich get richer.  This is just a way to add in something else to do within the game.  Enough with there being problems because of super tier nations.  Right now it should be trying to appeal to more and more people so this game can continue then fix whatever problems there seems to be within the game to certain people.

 

I like the idea.  All that happiness will do to top tier nations is make their warchest bigger.  Not like you can spend much money while owning everything at that point.


Edited by TwitchHard, 04 March 2014 - 08:03 AM.


#19 ChairmanHal

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:10 PM

I like the idea of adding crime rate to the game, I also like the idea of tying Happiness to the crime rate, though I see crime rate as a negative modifier to happiness.  I'm just not sure that the OP's formula is the best way to go about it.

 

One possibility would be to make police a unit that you can buy in some quantity per police headquarters (similar to spies now) and the larger your nation, the higher the crime rate goes unless you purchase police headquarters and cops to keep it under control.

 

Edit: Federal Bureau of Investigation wonder...you got it, similar to CIA, except it would allow you to buy more cops, thus help further reduce the crime rate. 

 

Methrage is right about the real-world application, and Caladin/Auctor are right about the mechanics. It's a nice thought, but it just seems like another way for upper tier nations to make even more money. This doesn't actually fix any problems.

 

The OP never suggested there was a problem per se, just that this would make a nice addition to the game.


Edited by ChairmanHal, 06 March 2014 - 11:53 AM.


#20 BringMeTheHorizon

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 08:56 PM

Seems like this gives smaller nations a disadvantage!

 

Read above. 







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