A Message from the Emperor of the New Pacific Order

[Neo Uruk]

Well said, Farrin. Best of luck on the battlefield that we remain on, Pacifica, and hopefully they come to their senses.

[Luckao]

Declaration of Support

(And Matters About Monies)

 
As acting Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer for R&R, I would like to take this opportunity to affirm my support of this declaration.  The attrition that our collective forces have faced is a pressing concern.  News of these draconian sanctions being potentially implemented has been met with widespread condemnation by those of us who have already suffered greatly.
 
Nonetheless, we seek solace among the hardship. With that, I would like to state my intent to see that, should the aforementioned sanctions be forced upon the NPO, I will do my utmost to relieve them of this imposing financial burden. It is my pleasure to inform them that I have access to vast financial resources that would make an oil Sheikh shake a stick at me in envy. This is, for now, the offer. In the event that the NPO decides to accept, I will be more than delighted to assist them. However, to proceed with this, there is the smaller matter of a release fee. My sources would like a good show of faith, and for this reason, they would like $36 million to be sent. I can, of course, act as the intermediary, in which case the NPO is required to send the money directly to my nation.

 

Thank you for your time and please send the monies ASAP.

[The Zigur]

I think every alliance leader on that side should get in on the action and post propaganda.

[Wolfg4ng]

Good stance NPO. Keep fighting the good fight

[Franz Ferdinand]

When was the last time that banks actually had relevance within an alliance apart from as an excuse to protect the more fragile nations during a war? These days, nations going to war and not just the top 33 should have enough money to rebuild from a war. Those which don't should have peaced out by now or not entered an alliance which isn't neutral.

[Joe Stupid]

With you til the end.

[Pyroman]

Good luck NPO.  Hope something reasonable gets offered up soon.  If not, meh... We just keep fighting.

[OsRavan]

Its good of Farrin to post this, if nothing else so everyone knows where people stand as opposed to rumors.

 

 

White Majic.... If this isnt about trying to 'cripple' NPO post war.. then here's what I don't get.  Why are you signalling NPO out?   Theyve taken as much damage as anyone else?  They were not the cause of the CB that started this war.  They've done nothing but honor their MDP and conduct themselves as we expect an alliance with honor to conduct themselves.

 

So, why do THEY get the unusual terms?

 

And dont say its because they've 'hid people in pm'.  I dont see you demanding those terms of any other alliances that have nations in pm.  (I wont get into the hypocrisy that you ALSO have those nations, since thats a different topic i suppose.)

 

 

What annoys me personally (and im just speaking personally here) about your stance is not that as victors you are demanding terms.... you have a right to demand what you want and we have a right to refuse them and we see where things end up.

 

No, its the BS you are coating it in.   We all know its not because you think your terms are reasonable (if you did it would have been what you demanded of everyone).  We all know its not because of  your CB.  And we all know its not because of anything NPO has actually done.

 

Heh, one thing you could always respect MK for... like them or hate them... is they called a spade a spade.  Are you doing this as an excuse to drag the war out?   A lot of your side has stated they want the war to go into February.  Are you just offering ridiculous terms (I wont get into the whole 'not allowed to surrender bs you pulled earlier) since you know they wont be accepted and you get the war length you want?  Is it to try and cripple NPO post war cause you view them as a threat? 

 

Whatever it is, instead of feeding people sop that these are reasonable terms you would offer any alliance who did what NPO did (hint: you havent demanded it of anyone else) man up, cut the BS, and lay the cards on the table.

Edited January 26, 2014 by OsRavan

[brucemania]

Its good of Farrin to post this, if nothing else so everyone knows where people stand as opposed to rumors.

 

 

White Majic.... If this isnt about trying to 'cripple' NPO post war.. then here's what I don't get.  Why are you signalling NPO out?   Theyve taken as much damage as anyone else?  They were not the cause of the CB that started this war.  They've done nothing but honor their MDP and conduct themselves as we expect an alliance with honor to conduct themselves.

 

So, why do THEY get the unusual terms?

 

And dont say its because they've 'hid people in pm'.  I dont see you demanding those terms of any other alliances that have nations in pm.  (I wont get into the hypocrisy that you ALSO have those nations, since thats a different topic i suppose.)

 

 

What annoys me personally (and im just speaking personally here) about your stance is not that as victors you are demanding terms.... you have a right to demand what you want and we have a right to refuse them and we see where things end up.

 

No, its the BS you are coating it in.   We all know its not because you think your terms are reasonable (if you did it would have been what you demanded of everyone).  We all know its not because of  your CB.  And we all know its not because of anything NPO has actually done.

 

Heh, one thing you could always respect MK for... like them or hate them... is they called a spade a spade.  Are you doing this as an excuse to drag the war out?   A lot of your side has stated they want the war to go into February.  Are you just offering ridiculous terms (I wont get into the whole 'not allowed to surrender bs you pulled earlier) since you know they wont be accepted and you get the war length you want?  Is it to try and cripple NPO post war cause you view them as a threat? 

 

Whatever it is, instead of feeding people sop that these are reasonable terms you would offer any alliance who did what NPO did (hint: you havent demanded it of anyone else) man up, cut the BS, and lay the cards on the table.

 

well said .. can not wait to hear what the world wants to hear .... something called honesty

[Professor]

The wording used in your speech if wonderful. Not sure at all what these Crippling terms are, but that is for government to know and me to find out when the dust settles.

 Have you (Pacifica) thought that terms might change up if half your Peace Mode Bankers came out to go through a couple rounds of war? I don't know if they would but I would assume that the Coalition heads might see that as damage done in loo of some of the Crippling terms that are suppose to be offered.

 But hey I am just a noone in Polaris, here to play, here to fight, and here to help Acolytes :D

[The Zigur]

OSRavan apparently doesnt like the so called BS of the coalition and yet ignores Farrin's charged language (aggressor coalition lol). Guess The Factor is going to have to break this down for the folks.

[Pingu]

Does the aggressor coalition have a name it prefers to call itself?

[Azaghul]

When was the last time that banks actually had relevance within an alliance apart from as an excuse to protect the more fragile nations during a war? These days, nations going to war and not just the top 33 should have enough money to rebuild from a war. Those which don't should have peaced out by now or not entered an alliance which isn't neutral.

This.

 

The idea that they won't be able to move tons of aid without these nations is either a product of outdated 06/07 thinking or a very flimsy pretext.  Given what I've heard from what former members of NPO have to say, it is the latter.

 

That being said, I understand the desire to not accept punitive terms at all as a matter of principle.  And I generally oppose giving them out for the same reason.  Including in this instance, but I'm only one general member of one alliance in the coalition.

 

It is also clear this is a PR stunt, because it is obvious that this hurts rather than helps NPO's position in negotiations, by encouraging their enemies to dig in and discouraging further concessions.

[Starfox101]

Does the aggressor coalition have a name it prefers to call itself?

The Pingu fan club. 

[OsRavan]

::snorts at tywin::.  What was that?  Did you literally just ignore every point I made and referred to someone elses post?

 

Ohh.  Another point of amusement.  I know for a fact that both TOP and Umbrella (I was in a coalition gov with them last war) made it clear THEY would never accept any terms that included forced war for their nations or forced PM.  I'm sure if you catch an honest one they admit they wouldnt accept the terms they are offering either.

 

Now, nothing says they can't be hypocritical I suppose.  But I still find it amusing when alliances start demanding terms of others they themselves would be outraged to accept.    While you CAN  do that... a *smart* alliance leader that finds themselves in a situation of demanding what they wouldn't accept will pause and go "hey, wait a second.  Maybe long term this isn't the smartest bet for me."

 

 

 

One other random note:  Reparations have become a cultural no-no for us. But I ask.  What is this other than trying to get the impact of reparations without using the dreaded word?     No one wants to say they are demanding reps, cause of the OWF backlash.  All well and good.  But I ask you, what are terms except a way of getting reps without saying the word reps?  Essentially what I see here, are people trying to do what got reps condemned but do it in such a way that they can spin it as being "terms, not reps".

 

What happened to "we want a war to be a war.  Everyone comes in, fights honorably, then we move on.  We WANT people to be able to rebuild, because the last thing this world needs is drawn out terms that chase nations away, shrinks the community, and makes people hesitate more about actually fighting or doing anything interested."

 

I would actually, again, have more respect for top/umbrella/polar if they actually came out and admitted some of this. 

[Roland Deschain]

My favorite part of this thread is Tywin muttering about propaganda.

[The Zigur]

Does the aggressor coalition have a name it prefers to call itself?

Does the aggressor coalition have a name it prefers to call itself?

Personally, I consider this a Stability Operation and the original Polar declaration a Preemptive self defense action. Considering your side's scheming it makes sense.

OOC: On my phone. Will provide detail from my laptop. Edited January 26, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[JoshuaR]

 

A Message from the Emperor of the New Pacific Order

 33 nations over 4 months would deny us the use of 2376 aid slots - equivalent to 14-21bn of cash aid 

 

My goodness, $14-21B for arguably the strongest alliance in the game, the one able to both receive AND inflict more damage than anyone else in this war? The madness!

 

Meanwhile, as a single Umbrella nation in the tier of nations coinciding with your "banks," this war is costing me 8,500,000,000 dollars and counting in WC losses, damages, and missed income, not to mention probably close to 5k tech destroyed. 

 

Do you know what that tells me? If even TWO of your thirty-five perma-PM "banks" had come out to fight, their damages would have exceeded the TERRIBLE HARSH TERMS our coalition has offered you.

 

Clearly you have taken the smart way out, as the terms presented pale in comparison to what would have happened had you brought even a few of your high-tech banks to the fight. And as you continue your propaganda war and let your allies take the heavy damages on your behalf, why perhaps you can lower our TERRIBLE HARSH TERMS to the equivalent of a single nation of thirty-five having come out to fight.

 

And that's only cash, not even considering time spent rebuilding tech.

[Roland Deschain]

Personally, I consider this a Stability Operation and the original Polar declaration a Preemptive self defense action. Considering your side's scheming it makes sense.

So are you the defenders, or Stability Operators?

[Rebel Virginia]

Edit: Bah, ignore me. I have nothing to say here after all. Good luck NPO.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Rebel Virginia

[JoshuaR]

::snorts at tywin::.  What was that?  Did you literally just ignore every point I made and referred to someone elses post?

 

Ohh.  Another point of amusement.  I know for a fact that both TOP and Umbrella (I was in a coalition gov with them last war) made it clear THEY would never accept any terms that included forced war for their nations or forced PM.  I'm sure if you catch an honest one they admit they wouldnt accept the terms they are offering either.

 

Now, nothing says they can't be hypocritical I suppose.  But I still find it amusing when alliances start demanding terms of others they themselves would be outraged to accept.    While you CAN  do that... a *smart* alliance leader that finds themselves in a situation of demanding what they wouldn't accept will pause and go "hey, wait a second.  Maybe long term this isn't the smartest bet for me."

 

 

 

One other random note:  Reparations have become a cultural no-no for us. But I ask.  What is this other than trying to get the impact of reparations without using the dreaded word?     No one wants to say they are demanding reps, cause of the OWF backlash.  All well and good.  But I ask you, what are terms except a way of getting reps without saying the word reps?  Essentially what I see here, are people trying to do what got reps condemned but do it in such a way that they can spin it as being "terms, not reps".

 

What happened to "we want a war to be a war.  Everyone comes in, fights honorably, then we move on.  We WANT people to be able to rebuild, because the last thing this world needs is drawn out terms that chase nations away, shrinks the community, and makes people hesitate more about actually fighting or doing anything interested."

 

I would actually, again, have more respect for top/umbrella/polar if they actually came out and admitted some of this. 

News flash. Umbrella accepted extended war, all of anti-BIBO vs just us all by ourselves. Between us accepting the offer and Brehon getting signatures from his coalition mates, it turned out that the anti-BIBO coalition didn't want to fight us even everyone vs just us, and we got LUCKY that the enemy coalition was completely inept. 

 

We DID accept an extended war deal in order to ensure our loyal allies, OTPs, and coalition mates could finally get out of the war.

[The Zigur]

So are you the defenders, or Stability Operators?

I am just the news man these days.

[Starfox101]

:

What happened to "we want a war to be a war.  Everyone comes in, fights honorably, then we move on.  We WANT people to be able to rebuild, because the last thing this world needs is drawn out terms that chase nations away, shrinks the community, and makes people hesitate more about actually fighting or doing anything interested."

 

I would actually, again, have more respect for top/umbrella/polar if they actually came out and admitted some of this. 

In all honesty who is going to quit because Pacifica's upper tier has to remain in peace mode for 4 months?

 

There will be far more personnel losses from carrying on the war, so I don't think this is much of a fitting defense for this situation. And as I stated previously, and JoshuaR elaborated, the 14-21 billion lost pales in comparison to wartime losses. At this point, it comes down to pride. NPO does not want to accept terms, regardless of what they are, or were. Our coalition does not want to rescind terms and cave to public pressure like this, as that would require a massive swallowing of pride and acknowledging the war wasn't necessarily a victory, as we were able to be pressured by one reluctant Emperor. 

 

So, this is a roadblock in every which way based off the current stance. Our coalition has less to lose by continuing the war, and can by de facto enforce our terms merely by continuing to fight. Do you not see the problem with the logic in this thread?

[WarriorSoul]

OSRavan apparently doesnt like the so called BS of the coalition and yet ignores Farrin's charged language (aggressor coalition lol). Guess The Factor is going to have to break this down for the folks.

You do realize that by nature of declaring the aggressive wars, the Polar/TOP coalition is by definition the aggressor coalition, right?

There's nothing wrong with being the aggressor, someone had to do it. But an aggressive war is an aggressive war.

[hartfw]

News flash. Umbrella accepted extended war, all of anti-BIBO vs just us all by ourselves. Between us accepting the offer and Brehon getting signatures from his coalition mates, it turned out that the anti-BIBO coalition didn't want to fight us even everyone vs just us, and we got LUCKY that the enemy coalition was completely inept. 

 

We DID accept an extended war deal in order to ensure our loyal allies, OTPs, and coalition mates could finally get out of the war.

 

I was struck by that as well.  Did ODN not get told what terms Umb had accepted before they were changed, or is this just a case of forgetfulness of the last war already?  Asking seriously, as that period of negotiations was at least very interesting on the other side.