Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Top 5 Worst Policies in US History

Another Loki Thread

  • Please log in to reply
129 replies to this topic

#1 Loki Laufeyson

Loki Laufeyson

    HIM Haile Selassie I

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,631 posts
  • Nation Name:Carribean Union
  • Alliance Name:Killuminati Empire

Posted 02 January 2014 - 11:06 PM

Best regimes, worst regimes, we've heard it all. What are the worst laws and policies ever in US history?

 

1. Slavery: No explanation needed.

 

2. Jim Crow: No explanation needed

 

3. "Manifest Destiny": One could argue that this was the collection of various policies. Resulted in the systematic ethnic cleansing of Native Americans as settlers moved west; in the arrogant belief that they had the divine right to move west, and get rid of the people already living there.

 

4. No Child Left Behind Act: Single-handedly destroyed the US education system by limiting the independence of teachers, and making kids dumber by only having teachers tell them what they need to pass state-funded exams. Overall it has been a failure and is solid proof that states should be allowed to handle their own affairs, as far as education is concerned.

 

5. The "War on Terror": Took away whatever rights Americans have left in the name of "fighting against terrorism". The government can now wiretap people's phones, search through documents, and other illegal acts of surveillance. People say that it is the government trying to protect us, but the question I always ask is where does it end?



#2 juslen

juslen

    Former R&R Senator, Triumvir, and Sec of Interior

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,020 posts
  • Nation Name:juslen
  • Alliance Name:R&R

Posted 02 January 2014 - 11:07 PM

The war on drugs and the war on poverty in the 20th century. LBJ and Ricard Nixon's "Great Grandchildren" are alive an well in the U.S today.

#3 Senji

Senji

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,020 posts
  • Nation Name:Stellania
  • Alliance Name:Green Old Party

Posted 02 January 2014 - 11:11 PM

Women's suffrage.

#4 Loki Laufeyson

Loki Laufeyson

    HIM Haile Selassie I

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,631 posts
  • Nation Name:Carribean Union
  • Alliance Name:Killuminati Empire

Posted 02 January 2014 - 11:12 PM

The war on drugs and the war on poverty in the 20th century. LBJ and Ricard Nixon's "Great Grandchildren" are alive an well in the U.S today.

Agreed, to some extent however. Some policies within both the war on drugs and the war on poverty have beneficial, while some have not.



#5 commander thrawn

commander thrawn

    "May warriors' fortune smile on our efforts."

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,460 posts
  • Nation Name:Csilla

Posted 02 January 2014 - 11:16 PM

Best regimes, worst regimes, we've heard it all. What are the worst laws and policies ever in US history?
 
1. Slavery: No explanation needed.
 
2. Jim Crow: No explanation needed


Explain.

#6 juslen

juslen

    Former R&R Senator, Triumvir, and Sec of Interior

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,020 posts
  • Nation Name:juslen
  • Alliance Name:R&R

Posted 02 January 2014 - 11:17 PM

Agreed, to some extent however. Some policies within both the war on drugs and the war on poverty have beneficial, while some have not.


Yes, beneficial, as in allowing for the expansion of government. The war on drugs has been dismal failure, it has resulted in more crime, more wasted taxpayer money, more corruption and the impact it has had on the poor has been far more severe than the impact on the middle class and wealthy.

The war on poverty has also been dismal failure. Like the war on drugs, it has simply made things worse, which then creates demand for more government intervention. Any benefits that occur, are short term, and provide people with a reason to support more intervention. When one welfare program fails or falls short, another one takes its place or supplements it. This allows politicians to pander for votes as well as lobby money. Adding more fuel to the fire and creating more demand for action just assures the public that these taxpayer boondoggles continue uninterrupted.

Edited by juslen, 02 January 2014 - 11:34 PM.


#7 Loki Laufeyson

Loki Laufeyson

    HIM Haile Selassie I

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,631 posts
  • Nation Name:Carribean Union
  • Alliance Name:Killuminati Empire

Posted 02 January 2014 - 11:34 PM

Explain.

Is this a serious question?

 

Yes, beneficial, as in allowing for the expansion of government. The war on drugs has been dismal failure, it has resulted in more crime, more wasted taxpayer money, more corruption and the impact it has had on the poor has been fare more severe than the impact on the middle class and wealthy.

The war on poverty has also been dismal failure. Like the war on drugs, it has simply made things worse, which then creates demand for more government intervention. Any benefits that occur, are short term, and provide people with a reason to support more intervention. When one welfare program fails or falls short, another one takes its place or supplements it. This allows politicians to pander for votes as well as lobby money. Adding more fuel to the fire and creating more demand for action just assures the public that these taxpayer boondoggles continue uninterrupted.

Now that I think about that post, the war on drugs in many ways has been a failure. The "war on Poverty", as you would call it, has been beneficial to many people in America who truly are struggling:

 

Welfare, in the cases where it has been used for legitimate purposes, has helped many people who for one reason or another are unable to find work. At the same time, I'm not one of those naive liberal types who believe that it is a Godsend. In many cases it destroys the ambition of many people to find work, continues to be abused, and is in need of serious reform. I'm not oblivious to the fact that it has historically been used by politicians to put poor people, minorities in particular, "in their place" and bribe them for votes. The US has one of the worst welfare systems in the world.



#8 Senji

Senji

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,020 posts
  • Nation Name:Stellania
  • Alliance Name:Green Old Party

Posted 02 January 2014 - 11:39 PM

Is this a serious question?
 
Now that I think about that post, the war on drugs in many ways has been a failure. The "war on Poverty", as you would call it, has been beneficial to many people in America who truly are struggling:
 
Welfare, in the cases where it has been used for legitimate purposes, has helped many people who for one reason or another are unable to find work. At the same time, I'm not one of those naive liberal types who believe that it is a Godsend. In many cases it destroys the ambition of many people to find work, continues to be abused, and is in need of serious reform. I'm not oblivious to the fact that it has historically been used by politicians to put poor people, minorities in particular, "in their place" and bribe them for votes. The US has one of the worst welfare systems in the world.

If you feel that way about the poverty war, you should change your drug war view. While juslen will be against public schools, millions of dollars courtesy of El Chapo and the likes to Joe Doper buy computers, books, fund programs, projects, staffing, buildings, etc.

#9 commander thrawn

commander thrawn

    "May warriors' fortune smile on our efforts."

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,460 posts
  • Nation Name:Csilla

Posted 02 January 2014 - 11:45 PM

Is this a serious question?


Why not? You said there was no explanation necessary. I want to know why that is the case.

#10 juslen

juslen

    Former R&R Senator, Triumvir, and Sec of Interior

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,020 posts
  • Nation Name:juslen
  • Alliance Name:R&R

Posted 02 January 2014 - 11:50 PM

Is this a serious question?
 
Now that I think about that post, the war on drugs in many ways has been a failure. The "war on Poverty", as you would call it, has been beneficial to many people in America who truly are struggling:
 
Welfare, in the cases where it has been used for legitimate purposes, has helped many people who for one reason or another are unable to find work. At the same time, I'm not one of those naive liberal types who believe that it is a Godsend. In many cases it destroys the ambition of many people to find work, continues to be abused, and is in need of serious reform. I'm not oblivious to the fact that it has historically been used by politicians to put poor people, minorities in particular, "in their place" and bribe them for votes. The US has one of the worst welfare systems in the world.


As I said, the benefits are short term. They address the symptoms and do absolutely nothing to cure the disease. If any such "cure" exists, it would come in the form of economic growth which creates jobs as well as opportunities. There will always be people that are unable or unwilling to work, and those are the people that should be supported through charities. There is no reason why people who work full time should not be able to obtain food, clothing, shelter, medical care and other necessities on the most basic of jobs that are more than entry level.

The reason why these things are beyond their grasp and that welfare is needed is due to a multitude of factors which are the direct result of government intervention in the markets. Things get more complicated when you factor in personal decisions made by people that diminish their ability to obtain these things. Those involve wasting money, making irresponsible choices that lead them into debt or imprisonment and other unfortunate incidents.

Don't get me wrong. There are a ton of gray areas. My basic point is that a wealthy and prosperous society should not have to continually fall into these types of situations where more and more government is necessary to address problems which could be more efficiently dealt with via competitive markets.

The fact that people who claim to be in need are often susceptible to outright fraud and abuse, tells me that the people that truly need the help end up with less help and fewer benefits. And by benefits, I mean economic benefits, such as those made possible by a thriving and vibrant economy. The bad apples spoil the entire bunch. There is no way of salvaging a system in which failures result in rewards.

Edited by juslen, 03 January 2014 - 12:31 AM.


#11 Loki Laufeyson

Loki Laufeyson

    HIM Haile Selassie I

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,631 posts
  • Nation Name:Carribean Union
  • Alliance Name:Killuminati Empire

Posted 02 January 2014 - 11:55 PM

If you feel that way about the poverty war, you should change your drug war view. While juslen will be against public schools, millions of dollars courtesy of El Chapo and the likes to Joe Doper buy computers, books, fund programs, projects, staffing, buildings, etc.

In regards to the War on Drugs, I believe it has been a failure in the regard that it is trying to put an end to something that is an unfortunate part of our society. While I agree that selling poison like Coke and Heroin should be illegal, drugs like Marijuana are not as dangerous or addictive and even have medicinal and industrial purposes. Marijuana, while it is harmful to some degree, is one of the safest drugs out there and if it were legal the government would make a ton of money by taxing the hell out of it.

 

Why not? You said there was no explanation necessary. I want to know why that is the case.

Because it essentially said that a group of people didn't qualify as Human beings because of the color of their skin. This was government policy for hundreds of years with Slavery and later segregation.


Edited by Loki Laufeyson, 02 January 2014 - 11:58 PM.


#12 KaiserMelech Mikhail

KaiserMelech Mikhail

    BEAT BAYLUH!

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 7,833 posts
  • Nation Name:Marscurian Empire
  • Alliance Name:Orange Defense Network

Posted 02 January 2014 - 11:56 PM

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that slavery, jim crow laws, and indian relocation will be the top 3 on everyone's list.  For my other two, I'm going to go with the slashing of funding for science over the past 40 years and with our very lax regulation of the relationship between corporations, lobbyist groups, and politicians.

Essentially saying a group of people don't qualify as Human beings because of the color of their skin. This was government policy for hundreds of years with Slavery and later segregation.

Incorrect, they counted as 3/5 of human beings.

Edited by KaiserMelech Mikhail, 02 January 2014 - 11:57 PM.


#13 Ayatollah Bromeini

Ayatollah Bromeini

    War of holy principles

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,070 posts
  • Nation Name:Rock n Rollah
  • Alliance Name:INT
  • CN:TE Nation Name:Soviet Tennessee
  • CN:TE Alliance Name:The Warriors

Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:11 AM

War on poverty is a sketch choice. Sure, it's been a cluster of liberal 'band-aid on a severed limb' policies that attacks the symptoms and not the disease (though I know we disagree on what that disease is!), but it's still helped keep millions of people out of abject poverty, even if that is as far as it's willing to go as a pacification tool, something that is starting to come back and bite these policies in the ass and will do so much more in the future.

 

 

They're inherently flawed policies but their nature is noble, and the results haven't necessarily been bad. Putting this above or on the same level slavery, Jim Crow, US foreign policy towards almost every underdeveloped nation ever since the late 19th century, the war on terror and the war on drugs is a bit over board.


Edited by Ayatollah Bromeini, 03 January 2014 - 12:13 AM.


#14 commander thrawn

commander thrawn

    "May warriors' fortune smile on our efforts."

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,460 posts
  • Nation Name:Csilla

Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:22 AM

Because it essentially said that a group of people didn't qualify as Human beings because of the color of their skin. This was government policy for hundreds of years with Slavery and later segregation.


Thank you.

#15 commander thrawn

commander thrawn

    "May warriors' fortune smile on our efforts."

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,460 posts
  • Nation Name:Csilla

Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:25 AM

My top 5.

Legal abortion,

slavery,

capital punishment,

the ban on DDT,

the public school system.

#16 Omniscient1

Omniscient1

    Just a nice guy

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,808 posts
  • Nation Name:Silla
  • Alliance Name:MI6

Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:35 AM

My top 5.Legal abortion,slavery,capital punishment,the ban on DDT,the public school system.


1,2,3 are great choices. I can understand why you'd say four. But number five makes me go "lol what?". So, please explain. All I have read today is ESPN's Sugar Bowl game cast reports and Radfem blogs, so the bar isn't set very high for you to make a "best thing I've read today" post.

#17 Loki Laufeyson

Loki Laufeyson

    HIM Haile Selassie I

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,631 posts
  • Nation Name:Carribean Union
  • Alliance Name:Killuminati Empire

Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:38 AM

As I said, the benefits are short term. They address the symptoms and do absolutely nothing to cure the disease. If any such "cure" exists, it would come in the form of economic grown which creates jobs as well as opportunities. There will always be people that are unable or unwilling to work, and those are the people that should be supported through charities. There is no reason why people who work full time should not be able to obtain food, clothing, shelter, medical care and other necessities on the most basic of jobs that are more than entry level.

The reason why these things are beyond their grasp and that welfare is needed is due to a multitude of factors which are the direct result of government intervention in the markets. Things get more complicated when you factor in personal decisions made by people that diminish their ability to obtain these things. Those involve wasting money, making irresponsible choices that lead them into debt or imprisonment and other unfortunate incidents.

Don't get me wrong. There are a ton of gray areas. My basic point is that a wealthy and prosperous society should not have to continually fall into these types of situations where more and more government is necessary to address problems which could be more efficiently dealt with via competitive markets.

The fact that people who claim to be in need are often susceptible to outright fraud and abuse, tells me that the people that truly need the help end up with less help and fewer benefits. And by benefits, I mean economic benefits, such as those made possible by a thriving and vibrant economy. The bad apples spoil the entire bunch. There is no way of salvaging a system in which failures result on rewards.

Agreed, the benefits Welfare does provide are short term and only treat the symptoms of wealth inequality and uncontrolled capitalism. Think about it though: What about periods when there is no economic growth? Great Depression? The current economic downturn? People argue that charities should be the only groups providing assistance to the poor. This is a very good point, but can we really say that they do enough?

 

I disagree with some other things you have said though. Even with full time jobs, it is hard for many people to make ends meet and a lot of people even have to work several jobs in order to feed their families. However, I do agree that people's choices in how they spend their money have a lot to do with their financial situation.

 

Funny story: My friend was telling me about a guy in his class who comes to school in expensive clothes and shoes, yet he has problems paying child support. Lol.  :v:

 

the ban on DDT,

the public school system.

 

1. Isn't DDT bad for the environment?

 

2. Public schooling isn't necessarily bad, it just needs a ton of reform.


Edited by Loki Laufeyson, 03 January 2014 - 12:40 AM.


#18 Omniscient1

Omniscient1

    Just a nice guy

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,808 posts
  • Nation Name:Silla
  • Alliance Name:MI6

Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:38 AM

Women's suffrage.


Are you joking or not?

Also surprised you, Thrawn, or Teddyyo have beaten the Obamacare drum yet.

#19 commander thrawn

commander thrawn

    "May warriors' fortune smile on our efforts."

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,460 posts
  • Nation Name:Csilla

Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:42 AM

1,2,3 are great choices. I can understand why you'd say four. But number five makes me go "lol what?". So, please explain. All I have read today is ESPN's Sugar Bowl game cast reports and Radfem blogs, so the bar isn't set very high for you to make a "best thing I've read today" post.

the public education system in america as a comprehensive set of policies sets out with good intentions but in effect has done more damage to generations of the poor especially minorities than any racist group, war, etc. apart from slavery. lack of quality education is what underlies poverty in most cases and the public school system especially in many urban areas breeds dysfunction, illiteracy, crime, and intergenerational poverty. the kkk could not have devised a better plan for screwing over the black population of milwaukee than our public schools.

#20 juslen

juslen

    Former R&R Senator, Triumvir, and Sec of Interior

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,020 posts
  • Nation Name:juslen
  • Alliance Name:R&R

Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:43 AM

War on poverty is a sketch choice. Sure, it's been a cluster of liberal 'band-aid on a severed limb' policies that attacks the symptoms and not the disease (though I know we disagree on what that disease is!), but it's still helped keep millions of people out of abject poverty, even if that is as far as it's willing to go as a pacification tool, something that is starting to come back and bite these policies in the ass and will do so much more in the future.
 
 
They're inherently flawed policies but their nature is noble, and the results haven't necessarily been bad. Putting this above or on the same level slavery, Jim Crow, US foreign policy towards almost every underdeveloped nation ever since the late 19th century, the war on terror and the war on drugs is a bit over board.


Just in case that was in reference to me. I must clarify. I meant that in the 20th century, those were the two biggest failures in regards to polices. Slavery was a 19th century issue, and Jim Crow laws were horrible, but I don't see how they were worse than than the destructive effects of the war on poverty or the war on drugs. I believe that Jim Crow laws would have eventually been phased out by the states, and that the expansions of power given to the federal government under the war on drugs and poverty were far greater.

I would also say that the War on Terror and the Patriot Act would top the list for the 21st century so far. 19th century for me would include both the Civil War and Slavery. Not sure if you could label them as government policies though. There are just far too many government evils to choose from to be honest.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Another Loki Thread

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users