Indignados DoE

[berbers]

Oh god that flag is awesome, all hail our new banana republic overlords :D

[Tehmina]

Wait, i want that flag!

[soultaker]

This thread is now about the existence of The United People's Banana Republic. An AA where all its members MUST wear banana hammocks, pun intended, and shop at banana republic.

 

OP is mad, this seems to be all.

 

That pretty much sums up this entire thread. Along with La Marx whining about mistreatment and all that jazz in order to get a protector lol don't see that happening anytime soon!

[Schattenmann]

Wherein The International attempts to end the year on a high note by persecuting some guy after having a year only a shitty commie AA like Int could have. 

[Sabcat]

 

See, you say you have experience on this planet, then you say things like this. Let me break it down for you:

 

A very significant portion of damage during wars is done in the upper tier. In addition, funding FROM the upper tier is what causes a great deal of the damage dealt in the lower tier. The upper tier more than the lower tier is the deciding factor in MOST wars. And even in wars where the losing side had an advantage in the upper tier (EQ), the presence of a strong upper tier still had a dramatic impact on how the war played out. From this we reach the conclusion that having superiority in the upper tier is of the utmost importance in fighting a war.

 

Now, wars in the upper tier are, by and large, decided by who has the advantage in technology. More tech = more damage, and the person who wins is the person who does the most damage. Other factors like warchests and numerical superiority can factor in as well, but a nation with 10k tech and any amount of money is a serious threat, whereas a nation with 1000 tech and 5 billion dollars is just an annoyance. So from this we conclude that having more technology is beneficial to an alliance in times of war.

 

So let's look at your proposal. You would have us do 12/100 tech deals. Which means that, with full slot efficiency, an INT nation would be taking in 600 tech per month, or 7200 tech per year. For that tech, the INT nation pays 864 million dollars. Now, that's far from terrible in a vacuum, but this is not a vacuum. Other alliances do either 6/100 deals or 6/200 deals. A nation doing all 6/100 deals at full efficiency gets 1800 tech every two months, or 10,800 tech per year. That nation would pay 648 million dollars for that technology. A nation doing 6/200 deals gets 1200 tech per month or 14,400 tech per year. This nation sends out 432 million dollars per year. Now, let's take INT and two hypothetical alliances with similar stats, the only difference being that we do 12/100 deals, alliance B does 6/100 deals, and alliance C does 6/200 deals. Let's say each alliance has 80 nations, 40 sellers and 40 buyers, all of which are active. After a year, alliance B's upper tier, the tech buying nations, have 216 million more dollars EACH, and 3600 more tech EACH. Across the entire alliance, they have 8.64 BILLION more dollars, and 144,000 more tech. Alliance C will have 432 million more per nation and 7200 more tech. Multiply by 40, that's 17.3 billion more dollars and 288,000 more tech. These two alliances have a considerable military advantage on INT at this point, and in a fight with them, we would lose. Hard.*

 

But wait! You say. Our smaller nations would be bigger! See, that doesn't actually matter. After they were done ravaging our upper tier, alliances B and C would each be able to down declare on these built up tech sellers. They would have an even larger technology advantage, massive amounts of cash on hand, and would have just gotten done with a pretty easy fight against our upper tier. In addition, they would be able to send out money and soldiers to the smaller nations in their respective alliances to aid in those nations' fights. Our nations would be outclassed at every turn, and we would be defeated.

 

In addition, as has been mentioned, under your plan nations would not remain sellers for long. So after about 6 months, suddenly instead of a nice 40/40 split of buyers and sellers, we have a 60/20 or 70/10 split instead. Now what? We can't operate at full slot efficiency due to a lack of sellers, which means we take in even LESS tech per month. We could try to buy from other alliances, but most alliances are looking to increase their seller base, not let other people access it. Keeping full slot efficiency with that kind of ratio is almost impossible without a highly dedicated economic team working literally every day to find sellers. Even then, we would probably need a GOONS-Umbrella-esk relationship with a lower ANS alliance to maintain high aid slot efficiency. All of this means that we're going to be even MORE disadvantaged in a time of war.

 

The point of all of this is that yes, your proposal would harm INT. It would directly inhibit our ability to fight in wars in our own defense or the defense of our allies. It would cause us to take more damage each war than we otherwise would. It would cause us to deal less damage to our enemies. Your idea is bad.

 

 

 

*All of this assumes a magical land in which seller nations have Disaster Relief Agencies. Shhhhh.

This is all true and based on sound reasoning. Obviously what Le Marx is talking about is utter shit but, and it's a significant but because the general lack in the world of sellers compared to buyers the price of tech should tend to rise. An alliance that's prepared to offer a good price with a stable relationship and even recruit on that basis could gain a slight advantage all other things being equal. It's a fine line to tread.

[Clash]

The International's front of the war started on November 8th, and it's now December 24th, so that's 46 days ago. Since we saw this coming and have a little ways to go, I'm going to round it off to 5 aid cycles. During these 5 aid cycles, my aid slots have been used for war aid as soon as they come open and I have 6 of them. So that's 30m total aid slots, more or less.

 

They've been split approximately even between $9 million and $6 million, plus 2/3rds have had soldiers. So: (15 x 9 = 135) + (15 x 6 = 90) = $225 million.

 

Furthermore, I expect to pay out rebuilding aid to my comrades for at least the next two/three months. I've already volunteered to help all nations with FACs, so let's approximate again: 8 aid cycles x 6 aid slots x $9 million = $432 million.

 

$225 million + $423 million = $648 million.

Now, according to La Marx: $648 million / $12 million = 5,400 tech.

 

I CLAIM LA MARX'S TECH UNION SHALL OWE ME 5,400 TECH.

That's just math, gdi.

 

-------

 

On one side:

La Marx, admitted n00b

On the other side;

EVERYONE ELSE (except Schattenmann)

 

La Marx bro, when everyone who knows anything is arguing against someone who knows nothing, it just don't look so good for you. Y'know bro? I'm just saying that while you write well, maybe you gotta put a lil more research into what you're writing about. When everyone who knows anything is saying you ain't right, maybe they are.

[Cataduanes]

Wherein The International attempts to end the year on a high note by persecuting some guy after having a year only a !@#$%* commie AA like Int could have. 

Damn man that's coldblooded :D

[Clash]

Wherein The International attempts to end the year on a high note by persecuting some guy after having a year only a !@#$%* commie AA like Int could have. 

 

Actually, the International is ending this year beating the crap out of an alliance they've owed a war to for several years. That's more than just a high note, I'd call that the left getting righteous. Furthermore, some quick research on the alliance you used to lead (CoJ), shows it to have been a fascist theocracy. So why should anyone care about a fascist theocratic dictator's stupid opinion of democratic communists? How about the next time you want to have an opinion, I'll just tell it to you. That'll save everyone's time.

[OldDB]

OMG! La Marx why didn't you tell me i was surrounded by such filthy bourgeois. I mean look at Clash, such a filthy capitalist in sheep's clothing it makes me sick to my stomach. can i join your alliance to fight the capitalist scum too? (not withstanding my plan to join and then coup you immediately). 

[gunzzz]

That would be more in tune with Anarcho-Syndicalist views than a Communist one :P

Most commies I talk to basically have the same ideals as anarchists. Plus the way la Marx talks about communism, it seems more in tune with those anarcho-commie types instead of the way the commie gov in game is set up, which is a heavily militarized type of gov, maybe more in tune with Stalinist.

Fuck do I know though, I'm not a commie, thank god, too much indecisiveness in the philosophy to get me interested in it, let alone figure out what the hell it is Edited December 24, 2013 by Hamilmania

[Schattenmann]

 

Actually, the International is ending this year beating the crap out of an alliance they've owed a war to for several years. That's more than just a high note, I'd call that the left getting righteous. Furthermore, some quick research on the alliance you used to lead (CoJ), shows it to have been a fascist theocracy. So why should anyone care about a fascist theocratic dictator's stupid opinion of democratic communists? How about the next time you want to have an opinion, I'll just tell it to you. That'll save everyone's time.

 

ssdfsdfsgdfg Damage taken   Damage dealt   Wars   Difference

Nordreich sd 3,493,239 sllsd  3,770,299 sdfsd 816     277,060

International  1,205,738 sfffdf  1,062,394 sdfllld 290    -143,343

 

Damn man that's coldblooded :D

 

Edited December 24, 2013 by Schattenmann

[La Marx]

$%&@ do I know though, I'm not a commie, thank god, too much indecisiveness in the philosophy to get me interested in it, let alone figure out what the hell it is

So you're glad you're not a commie, even though you don't know anything about it, even though you claim that there is 'too much indecisiveness in the philosophy', even though you don't know anything about it, "thank god"? This is bourgeois ideology at its purest and strongest - sustained by nothing other than pure ignorance, fear of the communist 'strangeness', its enormous death tolls and the the stories of them well circulated and exaggerated in bourgeois society, also based on the naive equation of all states that have proclaimed themselves as socialist or communism with the science, praxis and philosophy and its multiple elaborations since Marx and Bakunin. 

As for whether or not I have "researched this question deeply" etc., I have researched it sufficiently for my own purposes. If you read my thesis closely you will see that is largely normative, or in other words, a moral polemic disdainful of the facts, putting the "factuality" of the facts in dispute as nothing more than epiphenomena of the Gerontocratic ideology.

And from that perspective, the perspective of my thesis, no one has even criticised me. I am just abused and persecuted for peripheral things and misunderstandings.

[sir pwnage]

Clash, technically Schatt isn't on La Marx's side. He's just not on our side.

 

So you're glad you're not a commie, even though you don't know anything about it, even though you claim that there is 'too much indecisiveness in the philosophy', even though you don't know anything about it, "thank god"? This is bourgeois ideology at its purest and strongest - sustained by nothing other than pure ignorance, fear of the communist 'strangeness', its enormous death tolls and the the stories of them well circulated and exaggerated in bourgeois society, also based on the naive equation of all states that have proclaimed themselves as socialist or communism with the science, praxis and philosophy and its multiple elaborations since Marx and Bakunin. 

As for whether or not I have "researched this question deeply" etc., I have researched it sufficiently for my own purposes. If you read my thesis closely you will see that is largely normative, or in other words, a moral polemic disdainful of the facts, putting the "factuality" of the facts in dispute as nothing more than epiphenomena of the Gerontocratic ideology.

And from that perspective, the perspective of my thesis, no one has even criticised me. I am just abused and persecuted for peripheral things and misunderstandings.

 

 

"You all clearly know more than me, so let's have a debate based on our feelings instead of facts."

Edited December 24, 2013 by sir pwnage

[Baron Terror]

 

ssdfsdfsgdfg Damage taken   Damage dealt   Wars   Difference

Nordreich sd 3,493,239 sllsd  3,770,299 sdfsd 816     277,060

International  1,205,738 sfffdf  1,062,394 sdfllld 290    -143,343

 

 

Most of the nations we are fighting are former high-mid tier nations that have been knocked down to a level where they can attack our low or mid to low tier nations. It's not really that surprising that we have taken a bit more damage in those tiers while NoR's top tier languishes in peace mode. This is a pretty silly thing for you to point out, its very common for defenders to deal out more damage in wars to each alliance they are at war with while still loosing massively more NS overall.

[HM Solomon I]

So you're glad you're not a commie, even though you don't know anything about it, even though you claim that there is 'too much indecisiveness in the philosophy', even though you don't know anything about it, "thank god"? This is bourgeois ideology at its purest and strongest - sustained by nothing other than pure ignorance, fear of the communist 'strangeness', its enormous death tolls and the the stories of them well circulated and exaggerated in bourgeois society, also based on the naive equation of all states that have proclaimed themselves as socialist or communism with the science, praxis and philosophy and its multiple elaborations since Marx and Bakunin. 
As for whether or not I have "researched this question deeply" etc., I have researched it sufficiently for my own purposes. If you read my thesis closely you will see that is largely normative, or in other words, a moral polemic disdainful of the facts, putting the "factuality" of the facts in dispute as nothing more than epiphenomena of the Gerontocratic ideology.
And from that perspective, the perspective of my thesis, no one has even criticised me. I am just abused and persecuted for peripheral things and misunderstandings.

And ...

Normative arguments can still be unsound. Making one doesn't give you immunity from the rules of logic, and, by those rules, your argument, being based on utterly false premises, is very much unsound. Edited December 24, 2013 by HM Solomon I

[La Marx]

 

ssdfsdfsgdfg Damage taken   Damage dealt   Wars   Difference

Nordreich sd 3,493,239 sllsd  3,770,299 sdfsd 816     277,060

International  1,205,738 sfffdf  1,062,394 sdfllld 290    -143,343

 

 

This is priceless.

As for the pedantic declaration sans argument/engagement/analysis/reflection that my normative claims are unsound, I beg that pronouncer to take more time delving into serious reflection upon my normative claims before he or she joins the boorish mob denouncing me. Second,, he or she should give some thought upon the source and legitimacy, validity and power of normative/ethical claims tout courte. This is not a cut and dried matter. There are no cookie-cutter dogmatic refutations to pull out of our pockets. And if we are going to go to the end of critical reasoning, the normativity of the rules of logic itself must undergo scrutiny. This is as Kant would put it, because of the antinomies of reason, or the gap between pure and practical reason, or nature and freedom. 

 

[Schattenmann]

This is a pretty silly thing for you to point out

 

Your pal says you're "beating the crap out of" Nordreich.  Reality says different.  NoR is fighting HB, Int, MW, MHA and others.  Int is fighting no one but NoR, yet you've fought less than 4 wars per Nordlander in a war spanning 46 days.  Your Two Minutes' Hate on La Marx is a nice diversion for the party, but we're out here in the real world right now.

 

Get your democratic communist asses in gear as only a fascist theocrat could do.  Maybe focus on getting NoR to surrender rather than a commie apostate.

[HM Solomon I]

This is priceless.
As for the pedantic declaration sans argument/engagement/analysis/reflection that my normative claims are unsound, I beg that pronouncer to take more time delving into serious reflection upon my normative claims before he or she joins the boorish mob denouncing me. Second,, he or she should give some thought upon the source and legitimacy, validity and power of normative/ethical claims tout courte. This is not a cut and dried matter. There are no cookie-cutter dogmatic refutations to pull out of our pockets. And if we are going to go to the end of critical reasoning, the normativity of the rules of logic itself must undergo scrutiny. This is as Kant would put it, because of the antinomies of reason, or the gap between pure and practical reason, or nature and freedom.

As someone who has studied philosophy and especially ethics quite a bit, I'm here to tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about. I didn't go point by point through your premises because that's already been done by others, repetition being a cardinal sin in rhetoric. All normative theories and arguments are, on at least some fundamental level, grounded in descriptive premises, and the ones your argument is based on have been demonstrated to be false. By definition then, your argument is unsound.

[Baron Terror]

 

Your pal says you're "beating the crap out of" Nordreich.  Reality says different.  NoR is fighting HB, Int, MW, MHA and others.  Int is fighting no one but NoR, yet you've fought less than 4 wars per Nordlander in a war spanning 46 days.  Your Two Minutes' Hate on La Marx is a nice diversion for the party, but we're out here in the real world right now.

 

Get your democratic communist asses in gear as only a fascist theocrat could do.  Maybe focus on getting NoR to surrender rather than a commie apostate.

We have done by far the most damage out of all those alliances and have the most wars. Of course I'm not going to sit here and pretend this isn't a group effort, we have all worked together to to achieve such a massive reduction in both NS and tech and credit goes to all alliances at war with NoR. I'd imagine that stat would look a lot better if more than half of NoR weren't in peace mode. I don't really get why you would want to defend a crackpot who openly admits to theft and abuse of process but then I guess you just love the underdog in any fight...

[Hereno]

 

Your pal says you're "beating the crap out of" Nordreich.  Reality says different.  NoR is fighting HB, Int, MW, MHA and others.  Int is fighting no one but NoR, yet you've fought less than 4 wars per Nordlander in a war spanning 46 days.  Your Two Minutes' Hate on La Marx is a nice diversion for the party, but we're out here in the real world right now.

 

Get your democratic communist asses in gear as only a fascist theocrat could do.  Maybe focus on getting NoR to surrender rather than a commie apostate.

 

This thread is more about me than it is about INT, and yet all you can do is talk about them. I demand to be slandered. Consider it my Christmas present.

[gunzzz]

So you're glad you're not a commie, even though you don't know anything about it, even though you claim that there is 'too much indecisiveness in the philosophy', even though you don't know anything about it, "thank god"? This is bourgeois ideology at its purest and strongest - sustained by nothing other than pure ignorance, fear of the communist 'strangeness', its enormous death tolls and the the stories of them well circulated and exaggerated in bourgeois society, also based on the naive equation of all states that have proclaimed themselves as socialist or communism with the science, praxis and philosophy and its multiple elaborations since Marx and Bakunin. 

Somebody has a stick up their ass... Once you guys figure out what the hell communism is, I'll look into it, maybe... maybe we can have a tea party with Obama, Castro, and Stalin and talk about the greatness of Marx and communist theory Ill have nacy pelosi to host the event :) Edited December 25, 2013 by Hamilmania

[Clash]

 

Your pal says you're "beating the crap out of" Nordreich.  Reality says different.  NoR is fighting HB, Int, MW, MHA and others.  Int is fighting no one but NoR, yet you've fought less than 4 wars per Nordlander in a war spanning 46 days.  Your Two Minutes' Hate on La Marx is a nice diversion for the party, but we're out here in the real world right now.

 

Get your democratic communist asses in gear as only a fascist theocrat could do.  Maybe focus on getting NoR to surrender rather than a commie apostate.

 

 

Yeahhh oversimplification is a common mistake among simple minds. There's a lot more factors involved than just the the damage stats from in game, which are heavily biased towards who does the nuking. BT made some good points. Others are that they have many more MPs and WRCs than Int does, and started these wars with about a 17k average NS advantage over Int, which included much more tech, which does much more damage etc. etc.. Plus the war stats are based on how many slots an alliance has available and we sometimes have to wait in line to get slots on Nordreich.

 

Most importantly, way to dodge the main points:

1. Why should anyone care about a fascist theocratic dictator's stupid opinion of democratic communists? Historically speaking, you don't look so good.

2. Int is ending the year on a wonderful note :D

3. You're siding with the guy who wants 12mil/100 tech deals. So put your money where your keyboard is, get your fascist theocratic ass in gear and start tech deals with him.

 

Any comments on those, stooge? Or shall I write them for you?

[Groucho Marx]

Go away.

[Schattenmann]

Yeahhh oversimplification is a common mistake among simple minds. There's a lot more factors involved than just the the damage stats from in game, which are heavily biased towards who does the nuking. BT made some good points. Others are that they have many more MPs and WRCs than Int does, and started these wars with about a 17k average NS advantage over Int, which included much more tech, which does much more damage etc. etc.. Plus the war stats are based on how many slots an alliance has available and we sometimes have to wait in line to get slots on Nordreich.
Most importantly, way to dodge the main points:
1. Why should anyone care about a fascist theocratic dictator's stupid opinion of democratic communists? Historically speaking, you don't look so good.
2. Int is ending the year on a wonderful note :D

Oversimplification is saying you're kicking the crap out of Nordreich. Overcomplicated backpedaling is a guy who has fought -0- wars in the past 20 days explaining why his alliance isn't exactly kicking the crap out of anyone.

3. You're siding with the guy who wants 12mil/100 tech deals. So put your money where your keyboard is, get your fascist theocratic ass in gear and start tech deals with him.

Clash, technically Schatt isn't on La Marx's side. He's just not on our side.

Any comments on those, stooge? Or shall I write them for you?

I know you think you're on a roll, here, but if there's one thing I share with the 98% it's that we're all laughing at you, not with you.

Good luck out there.

[Clash]

Oversimplification is saying you're kicking the crap out of Nordreich. Overcomplicated backpedaling is a guy who has fought -0- wars in the past 20 days explaining why his alliance isn't exactly kicking the crap out of anyone.


I know you think you're on a roll, here, but if there's one thing I share with the 98% it's that we're all laughing at you, not with you.

Good luck out there.

 

So you're refusing to comment on the actual points, instead replying with red herrings and outright lies? Brilliant!

 

If they had someone out of PM in my range, I'd be at war with them.

Actually 98% think La Marx is silly - him and the idiot speaking up for him (you) are the 2% they're laughing at.

 

1. Why should anyone care about a fascist theocratic dictator's stupid opinion of democratic communists? Historically speaking, you don't look so good.

2. Int is ending the year on a wonderful note :D

3. You're siding with the guy who wants 12mil/100 tech deals. So put your money where your keyboard is, get your fascist theocratic ass in gear and start tech deals with him.

 

Try again, son.