Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

The South and Conservatism


  • Please log in to reply
443 replies to this topic

#1 Hereno

Hereno

    For Services Rendered

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,024 posts
  • Nation Name:Lancashire
  • Alliance Name:NSO

Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:27 PM

Lately, I have been trying to gain more information about what the factors are that lead to some of the poorest states in the Union being staunch conservatives. Not in the sense of implying that there is something about conservatism that has lead to them being poor, but rather, just to explain why southerners, who are statistically more impoverished, tend to have more conservative political views.

 

In my quest, I've found a somewhat interesting article: http://www.forbes.co...lly-republican/

 

It is written by a Republican, as well, which is probably why I find it so interesting.

 

The poorest states, based on per capita income, are, from first to last: Mississippi, Arkansas, Tennessee, West Virginia, Louisiana, Montana, South Carolina, Kentucky, Alabama, and North Carolina. Of these, exactly half—Arkansas, Kentucky, Montana, North Carolina, and West Virginia—have Democratic governors and three have Democratic majorities in the lower house of their legislature, so these state governments can hardly be classified as completely Republican. On the other hand, only North Carolina voted for Obama in 2008, so in that sense, these states may be leaning Republican.

 

Looking at the list of the 10 poorest states, all except Montana are east of (or border on) the Mississippi River. That means they are older states. Those nine also happen to be concentrated in the South. This is significant: They were all slaveholding states. They focused on producing commodities, whereas the northern states produced more value-added goods, more manufactured goods, more capital-intensive goods. Combined with national policies that conferred economic advantages on the relatively industrialized, higher capitalized North—policies that created some of the friction that led to the Civil War—the South’s economic development lagged.


As is common in societies based on producing raw commodities, the Old South had an elite that owned the land and employed a poorly educated workforce to plant, tend, and harvest the crops. Historically, then, education was of less importance, and therefore emphasized less, in the South than in the North—a trend that contributed ongoing economic advantages to the North.


After the Civil War, Republican carpetbaggers from the North kicked around the defeated South, further widening the economic gap between the two regions. One political consequence was that the Deep South was monolithically Democratic for the next century. Only in the last generation, when the secular counterculture took over the Democratic Party, did many Southerners finally bury the distant past and register as Republicans.

 

In short, he blames the focus of the economy in the south, combined with the civil war, for explaining why the South is poorer than the North. However, it still doesn't explain why that seems to be correlating with conservative politics.

 

What do you guys think? What's with the South?



#2 Teddyyo

Teddyyo

    They call me Mr. Teddyyo

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,225 posts
  • Nation Name:DaSouth
  • Alliance Name:Europa

Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:29 PM

We vote Republican because we're not filled with mindless unionized zombies. And social issues.

It's also funny of you to suggest all poor people should vote liberal [in order to get handouts]. What a great way to encourage the !@#$%* work ethic people have.

Edited by Teddyyo, 23 April 2013 - 04:32 PM.


#3 Hereno

Hereno

    For Services Rendered

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,024 posts
  • Nation Name:Lancashire
  • Alliance Name:NSO

Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:39 PM

We vote Republican because we're not filled with mindless unionized zombies. And social issues.

It's also funny of you to suggest all poor people should vote liberal [in order to get handouts]. What a great way to encourage the !@#$%* work ethic people have.

 

I'm not trying to imply what politics the poor should have one way or another. Rather, I'm just interested in why there is a correlation between being a poor southerner and being a conservative (as opposed to having no correlation either way, or opposed to correlating in the other direction).



#4 Teddyyo

Teddyyo

    They call me Mr. Teddyyo

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,225 posts
  • Nation Name:DaSouth
  • Alliance Name:Europa

Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:43 PM

 
I'm not trying to imply what politics the poor should have one way or another. Rather, I'm just interested in why there is a correlation between being a poor southerner and being a conservative (as opposed to having no correlation either way, or opposed to correlating in the other direction).


It pretty much boils down to distrust of government that is prevalent in the area.

#5 Freddy

Freddy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,284 posts
  • Nation Name:Wussyland
  • Alliance Name:United Purple Nations
  • CN:TE Nation Name:adventuretime
  • CN:TE Alliance Name:The Phoenix Cobras

Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:25 PM

Even in CA liberal/conservative is divided between urban/rural. Small town = stupid. Why? conservative values have more to do with religion than anything else. Poll north/south, urban/rural on atheism...is the correlation causal? Sure, because those local societies enforce norms.

#6 Ogaden

Ogaden

    Buzzkill Extraordinaire

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,009 posts
  • Nation Name:Ogaden
  • Alliance Name:Random Insanity Alliance

Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:45 PM

Black UN helicopters keep landing to steal guns and perform abortions, they must be stopped!



#7 commander thrawn

commander thrawn

    "May warriors' fortune smile on our efforts."

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,397 posts
  • Nation Name:Csilla

Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:04 PM

I think it comes down to a few things.

 

Religious concentration,

age demographics,

family demographics,

occupational differences (even if poor many are farmers, or other physically demanding laborers, likewise many of the wealthier occupations are concentrated in cities),

Lower crime rates (less desire for gun control etc.)

more hunting/fishing etc.
with exceptions less drug culture/issues,

they don't see as many benefits of social welfare programs, or education directly due to remoteness of location, and lack of professional communities,

racial demographic differences (sometimes),

Big public works projects, institutions, hospitals, courthouses, etc. Are generally in more urbanized areas, as are colleges and universities. 


Edited by commander thrawn, 23 April 2013 - 06:04 PM.


#8 Freddy

Freddy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,284 posts
  • Nation Name:Wussyland
  • Alliance Name:United Purple Nations
  • CN:TE Nation Name:adventuretime
  • CN:TE Alliance Name:The Phoenix Cobras

Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:27 PM

Those are factors, but I believe religion is the main factor. Anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-antichrist(Obama) are platforms to the GOP. There should be laws against exploiting the mentally ill.

#9 Hereno

Hereno

    For Services Rendered

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,024 posts
  • Nation Name:Lancashire
  • Alliance Name:NSO

Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:47 PM

Those are factors, but I believe religion is the main factor. Anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-antichrist(Obama) are platforms to the GOP. There should be laws against exploiting the mentally ill.

 

Poverty does correlate with an increase in religiosity. However, cities are full of poor people and they are much farther to the left than any other demographic. Not to mention that Catholics tend to vote Democrat, so being religious does not necessarily correlate with conservative political beliefs (although it may).

 

I'm beginning to think it has something to do with the large amounts of rural poor people as opposed to urban poor people in states like California, Maryland, or New York.



#10 Freddy

Freddy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,284 posts
  • Nation Name:Wussyland
  • Alliance Name:United Purple Nations
  • CN:TE Nation Name:adventuretime
  • CN:TE Alliance Name:The Phoenix Cobras

Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:55 PM

But what's the difference between the rural and urban poor?

From my observations Catholics are divided similarly by region (or possibly diocese).

#11 juslen

juslen

    Former R&R Senator, Triumvir, and Sec of Interior

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,146 posts
  • Nation Name:juslen
  • Alliance Name:R&R

Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:59 PM

But what's the difference between the rural and urban poor?

From my observations Catholics are divided similarly by region (or possibly diocese).

Rural poor are different from urban poor in the sense that they often have an easier time living with less. Put another way, rents are cheaper, taxes are cheaper, home prices are cheaper, and they can better afford to live with less. That is just off the top of my head. I really have no concrete clue on the matter, not until people disagree with me, then I will do my best to be right! haha

#12 Freddy

Freddy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,284 posts
  • Nation Name:Wussyland
  • Alliance Name:United Purple Nations
  • CN:TE Nation Name:adventuretime
  • CN:TE Alliance Name:The Phoenix Cobras

Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:02 PM

But what's the difference between the rural and urban poor?

From my observations Catholics are divided similarly by region (or possibly diocese).

Edit:oops

Edited by Freddy, 23 April 2013 - 08:03 PM.


#13 Senji

Senji

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,681 posts
  • Nation Name:Stellania
  • Alliance Name:Green Old Party

Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:18 PM

Perhaps its the whole "let me be me" vs the "be like me" mentality.

#14 Freddy

Freddy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,284 posts
  • Nation Name:Wussyland
  • Alliance Name:United Purple Nations
  • CN:TE Nation Name:adventuretime
  • CN:TE Alliance Name:The Phoenix Cobras

Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:50 PM

Perhaps its the whole "let me be me" vs the "be like me" mentality.


Yeah, except they are very much like the other individuals in their area. I don't think either con or lib has enough (national) majority to suggest conformity. Locally, yes there is a conformity to be in or out of. Mainstream media and science may seem to be a lib effort at a conformity, but those are urban institutions.

One definite difference between urban/rural is population density. Maybe, the different social demands cause people to think differently about society. Living in a filing cabinet for humans and congested freeways makes you very aware of the people around you. And aware of the problems associated with being social animals. Rural folk can be isolationists, because they are physically more isolated.

#15 Ogaden

Ogaden

    Buzzkill Extraordinaire

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,009 posts
  • Nation Name:Ogaden
  • Alliance Name:Random Insanity Alliance

Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:35 PM

The modern conservative isn't rural, he lives in the suburbs



#16 Freddy

Freddy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,284 posts
  • Nation Name:Wussyland
  • Alliance Name:United Purple Nations
  • CN:TE Nation Name:adventuretime
  • CN:TE Alliance Name:The Phoenix Cobras

Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:43 PM

The modern conservative isn't rural, he lives in the suburbs


"Rural" is a general term meaning "not metropolitan". The districts containing metro areas and non-metro areas are the distinction I believe measure the statistics of the subject.

#17 Icewolf

Icewolf

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,775 posts
  • Nation Name:Icicle City

Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:19 AM

The only thing that I can think of is that in the countryside the state generally has less of a presence anyway and there is more of a dependence on your local community. In a city suburb knowing your neighbours is less common, so the idea that everything can be resolved without government or that you can depend on others around you is simply not there. I don't know my neighbors well enough to rely on them to protect me if something bad happens (or if there is sounds like murder next door, can I gather a flashmob to storm the house in a rescue? Probably not). 

 

Also decisions are more likely to effect more people. Developments on some nearby land impact on literally thousands (and according to some local politicians we are standing at the gates of oblivion because a corner shop is temporarily closed...the joys of paying attention to local politics) meaning that resolution by consensus is much harder to achieve. 

In a small location the idea that "we can deal with this between ourselves" probably has more weight, and that is the kind of philosophy that right wing parties tend to peddle (unless it involves divorce, family relationships, gay marriage etc). 

 

Also at least in my experience small towns and villages have a far greater "we don't want outsiders" which right wing parties tend to support. If new housing is proposed in a city (at least round here) people seem to think "good-at least my son/friend/neice might have a shot at finding their own place now." In the countryside there tends to be a "strangers? Here? But but but they might be weird alien city folks." Or in the Southern end of the UK "but but but MY HOUSE VALUE!!!"



#18 Helbrecht

Helbrecht

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,050 posts
  • Nation Name:Cephian IV
  • Alliance Name:New Polar Order

Posted 24 April 2013 - 05:28 AM

image_4_273.jpg

Conservative or not, it wont be long before the people throw off the yoke of northern oppression!!!!

Spoiler


#19 Decomposition

Decomposition

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,637 posts
  • Nation Name:Cholesky
  • Alliance Name:Non-Grata

Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:19 AM

I think it comes down to a few things.

 

Religious concentration,

age demographics,

family demographics,

occupational differences (even if poor many are farmers, or other physically demanding laborers, likewise many of the wealthier occupations are concentrated in cities),

Lower crime rates (less desire for gun control etc.)

more hunting/fishing etc.
with exceptions less drug culture/issues,

they don't see as many benefits of social welfare programs, or education directly due to remoteness of location, and lack of professional communities,

racial demographic differences (sometimes),

Big public works projects, institutions, hospitals, courthouses, etc. Are generally in more urbanized areas, as are colleges and universities. 

 Are you seriously arguing that southern states have fewer crime problems, fewer drug problems, and don't utilize social programs as much as "northern" states.

 

Because these maps suggest quite the opposite:

http://www.policymap...tics/index.html

http://nationalatlas...rime_murder.gif

http://www.cdc.gov/V...-mapB_626px.jpg

http://www.drinkinganddriving.org/

http://cdn.theatlant...c-state-map.png

http://blogs.wsj.com...ab/interactive/

 

The list goes on, of course. Highest divorce rates in mostly southern states? Highest rates of illiteracy? Southern states. Lowest rates of high school graduation? Southern states.


Edited by Decomposition, 24 April 2013 - 07:50 AM.


#20 Omniscient1

Omniscient1

    Just a nice guy

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,891 posts
  • Nation Name:Silla
  • Alliance Name:No Affiliation

Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:28 AM

I'd say a combination of factors.

First of all most of us don't have huge cities like California or the East coast. That tends to make people more conservative. Why? Well you're likely for gun control if you only see gangsters and cops with guns. If you and all your neighbors have guns usually passed down for generations you see no problem with them. If you're constantly stepping over the homeless outside huge corporate headquarter buildings it's going to effect your economic policies. If you and your neighbor both own a little land and there's not much difference between you and him you're economics will likely be more free market. If the only meeting place for the community is a church, you'll be more religious.

Secondly, education. There are intelligent conservatives, but they seem rare around here. Education is statistically linked with leaning towards the left whether that's indoctrination, enlightenment, or both idk. With the exception of a few universities though we don't have many big name schools. Duke I believe is pretty highly rated. Vanderbilt is likely the best in the Deep South as far as I can remember. There are some highly rated medical schools, but again we have no Ivy leagues or anything.

Finally, social pressure. If everyone is voting GOP, you probably will too. Even if you'd disagree with indivual policies. If everyone blames things on Obama, you're probably not concerned enough to buck the flow. It'd be useless anyway. Local politics is basically a beauty contest mostly. Very unlikely to be real issues involved.

Btw, live in rural Alabama and help in local politics so speaking from personal experience.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users